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8:00 PM
@Shog9 You're 10 seconds fast.
 
in CSTheory Town Hall Chat on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 7 secs ago, by Rebecca Chernoff
Alright everybody. The SO town hall is starting now, so I've got to run.
 
@badp That's how I'd do it (also a joke)
 
Run, Rebecca, Run!
 
I AM NOT LATE
 
\o/
Well, 39 seconds..
 
8:00 PM
Since Rebecca starts the event, it's impossible for her to be late :)
 
@Rebecca of course not. you arrived exactly when you did
 
-.-
 
MOD TOOL REQUEST: ability to slow time
 
@RebeccaChernoff Is that the first question?
 
We'll floor it.
 
8:01 PM
(brb)
 
A Rebecca is never late. She arrives exactly when she intends to.
 
Welcome to the Stack Overflow Town Hall Chat
 
Kev
howdy
 
We're here to get to know the candidates and discuss any questions people may have that might help with voting.
 
Afternoon, evening, night.
 
8:01 PM
(This unskippable cutscene is 5 minutes long. brb) (← still in jest)
 
The candidates I see here are: @MichaelMrozek, @DaveDeLong, @JustinjjnguyNelson, @GeorgeStocker, @SLaks, @PaulDixon, @LasseVKarlsen, and @Kev.
 
good showing!
 
/me waves hand. Hello!
 
Kev
o/
 
8 out of 10 isn't bad.
 
8:03 PM
It's showtime!
@GeorgeStocker (good video)
 
/me not a candidate, but here.
 
-20 brownie points for Tim Post and Robert Harvey
 
As we go along, I'll do my best starring questions so that people can refer to that, and after we conclude, I'll update the meta post with a summary also.
Feel free to help me star questions. (:
 
At first I thought you were frowning. Have to get used to those smileys.
 
@Shog9 I'm just happy we got 8/10. Could've been worse. Silly timezones!
 
8:04 PM
@GeorgeStocker That's another prerequisite to being a mod. ;)
 
@GeorgeStocker We've told her for six months every day already, stop trying :P
 
So, anybody wanna get us started with a question?
 
How do you feel about losing your close votes?
 
What's going on now?
 
I'd like to point something out.
 
8:04 PM
You mean having binding close votes?
 
What's with this "town hall" thing?
 
What's your top reason why you want to be a moderator?
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson Yup
@GeorgeStocker you can edit
 
About the timezones - it's good to have mods in different times zones. Round the clock moderation, if needed.
 
It might work best if people let the candidates answer a question and then ask the next question.
 
8:05 PM
Question: Describe a question in the past that you weren't certain about closing, and what you chose, and why.
 
Oh, that's a nice feature.
 
@badp I'm still on the "mods should be able to normal vote" train, but I think it's pretty much dead at this point. I'm not too worried about it on SO though, the community kills bad posts really fast; I cared more on SE sites
 
Losing close votes is not a big deal, but it does highlight one effect of getting more "power", so to speak, and that is that power also means restrictions
 
Down-votes Michael for wanting to vote
 
(removed)
 
8:06 PM
I would no longer be able to use close the way I did before, but then I would also get to be the deciding factor
 
Your campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train. Why are you so popular?
 
@badp I'm excited for the power. I only vote to close questions that I'm sure should be closed. So, to be able to automatically place a question on the proper site or close spam would be awesome.
 
@Moshe: Please be specific about which George you are referring to.
It will usually be me because I have a space after my first name.
 
I'm sorry @George (both)
 
@GeorgeStocker I much prefer the maintenance tasks to actual answering (as I imagine most of the candidates probably do); being a mod is just a bigger set of maintenance stuff to take care of
 
8:07 PM
No worries. It's funny when I pop into chat for a minute and then I get the 20 replies in my inbox referring to the other george though.
 
>Losing close votes: This shouldn't be too big of a deal. I spend a lot of my time in the Mac and iPhone related tags, and there are quite a few heavy users there that are quick to help sift through questions that should probably be closed. Losing my votes there should not be a big deal.
 
@GeorgeStocker: Me too :P
 
@GeorgeEdison - spaces are irrelevant. Pinging ignores them. I'm going to shut up now and listen.
 
@DaveDeLong You'd be a mod for the entire site, not just a tag or two :)
 
Kev
>losing close votes: no biggy for me
 
8:08 PM
@AdamDavis I pretty much always just abstain if I'm not sure, and see if other people vote for it. If I think the question is setting a precedent I might comment on it, but usually I just do nothing
 
Oh yeah, I guess that's right.. [Uhm... I still don't know what this is all about...]
 
@GeorgeEdison Questions for mod candidates
 
Ah. Cool.
 
Kev
sorry, are we supposed to be answering now or waiting for enough questions to be starred?
 
8:09 PM
@Kev You can reply to posts, by the way; mouse over them and click the arrow on the right
 
@Kev ANSWER QUICKLY BEFORE WE ASK MORE!
 
@Kev -1 Lack of initiative. :)
 
I want to be a moderator because I get frustrated when there's any delay in sorting out abuses. I have to say, I think 10K users are pretty damn good with their powers, but every now and then, you want to be sure there's moderator coverage round-the-clock.
 
Ideally you should answer one question before we move on to the next. ;)
 
@Kev, answer away. (:
 
8:09 PM
@Kev We've been kind of going nuts; it'll get sorted out later
 
Question: Do you consider yourself addicted to stackoverflow, and in what ways (good and bad) does it impact your life?
 
@badp I understand that. Up until now, most of my activity has been in those tags, because that's where my expertise lies. If I were to become a moderator, my scope would expand to the entire site. Since I don't have as much expertise in other areas, I'd say it's probably a good thing that I wouldn't be voting to close as much. I'd much rather that normal users let the consensus show.
 
@badp Re: Losing close votes: I have to be very careful in what I vote to close now, losing my close votes isn't going to change that. I've invested a lot in my 'online reputation', so I want to make sure that every action I take is not only explainable, but makes sense and is logical. See my answer to this question for one such instance where people with high reputation should do things that make sense: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/74622/abusive-editing/…
 
@badp: These particular tags seem to lack a critical mass of other users that vote to close obvious duplicates, etc., so this is an advantageous place to have single-vote closing.
 
Questions are being starred on the right, so you can mostly keep track of what you have/haven't answered.
 
8:11 PM
@AdamDavis I don't think I've ever been "addicted" to a website to the point where I'm asking to be banned because I can't stop myself. I'm on SO quite a lot, but not in a way that makes it a "problem" (wow I sound like I'm in denial right now)
 
Would you suspend a user who repeatedly posts replies to their questions in answers instead of comments who has been told of the proper procedure, and if so, for how long? If not, what action would you take instead, if any?
 
@AdamDavis Yes I feel addicted. I think it's a good thing. It keeps my activity high. And I learn lots of new things on the site all of the time. I am constantly checking for new content on the site. So I feel my 'addiction' is a positive thing for moderatorship.
 
@BradL are you talking about iOS tags?
 
Re decision to close: I can't really find a single question right now that I had qualms closing, though I know they exists. Typical such situation is questions which contains just enough code to be a good one on SO, but yet contains tons of subjective matter and would thus be a good fit on P.SE as well. Whether I choose to close such questions or not depends on the amount of answers/comments it already has, existing close requests, etc.
 
<-- Am reveling in the ability to ask soft questions with risk of being closed, flagged, deep sixed, and losing 100 rep for abuse flags.
 
8:12 PM
> Why I want to be a moderator: I love the community atmosphere here on StackOverflow (and the related sites). I think the SE team has done a fantastic job at building a platform where people can come and find high quality information. I want to make sure that that continues. I can do a lot already as a +10k rep user, but I'm more than willing to do more.
 
I want to be a moderator because I believe that my stance towards questions and answers on Stack Overflow is supported by a large majority of the active community, and I want to continue to support the community by making sure that every viable question is given a fair chance, and that questions that need to be cleaned up are cleaned up. (see my reputation on Meta as supporting evidence: meta.stackoverflow.com/users/16587/george-stocker )
 
Addicted to StackOverflow: not as much as I have been in the past. I went through a phase of constantly watching my ranking, and when I got the 1st page of users, I relaxed! I read it several times a day though, but find myself doing more cleanup / 'welcome to stackoverflow' type stuff now.
 
@waiwai933 Sure; if somebody has been told the proper procedure and is still dragging down site quality, they should absolutely end up binned for a short while. If they kept at it you can always increase the length, but I think even a single ban for that sort of thing is extremely rare; people are normally pretty receptive to feedback
 
Re: suspending user with comments in answers. Personally I don't believe (yet) that that behaviour is worthy of a suspension, though I'm sure other existing moderators with more air under their wing would be able to provide guidance. I'm sure there are some rules regarding suspension that lists the infractions that are black and white, and some guidelines on the gray-area ones (at least I hope so.)
 
@waiwai933 Does that happen? (Other than account issues)
 
8:14 PM
@waiwai933 I will not suspend users lightly. Only after they have been warned through email a few times would I suspend. Only for a short period. (1 day) I'd just want to send the message that we really don't want people replying in answers.
 
@Moshe Yes, and it can be fairly frustrating some times, but I imagine there are other less-actively-patrolled tags out there that have questions only accumulating one or two close votes.
 
@MichaelMrozek When people are not receptive to feedback, do you agree with the sentiment that we cannot get rid of them fast enough?
 
Kev
@waiwai933 Would you suspend a user who repeatedly posts replies : I'd give them about 3 questions to mend their ways then have a discussion with other mods to decide on final action.
 
Related question: How would you deal with a user who produced a steady stream of valuable answers, but tends to generate a large number of arguments/flags from comments?
 
Q: What should be done with Questions and Answers that are flagged for "low quality"? Do you think they should be treated differently?
 
8:14 PM
I've seen many cases where a user doesn't understand SO's account system and ends up with two (or more) accounts and cannot comment. This is where mods can out-help 10Kers - merging accounts
 
@ErickRobertson I don't think I've ever needed to personally deal with somebody who literally refuses to change their behavior; it's always been the case that they just didn't realize they were doing something wrong. But sure; if they don't care about doing things the right way then there's no reason to let them keep being a problem
 
> Am I addicted to StackOverflow: Um, probably :-/ I'm on here every single day, and it's a rare day when I haven't written at least one answer. Good impact: the questions on here prompt me to discover new things. Many of the factoids I know I learned because of questions on SO. Bad impact: I spend a lot of time on the site...
 
@Waiwai933 re: suspension: There are many steps to take before suspension: First, replying to the user in a comment, second, privately communicating with the user, and if neither of those work, then finally, suspending the user for the littlest amount of time possible. If that doesn't work, then a longer suspension. Suspensions are a heavy stick. The one thing we don't want to do is just use heavy handed justice too soon, because that will turn off people to coming to Stack Overflow.
 
@waiwai993: on the suspension question: No, I wouldn't suspend. The wider community of 10K users can do a lot to correct that situation with the tools available. That should gently educate them into the StackOverflow way, IMHO.
 
Question: Consider your past interactions with Jeff and Joel: Do you feel you strongly agree, agree, remain neutral, disagree, or strongly disagree with the majority of their decisions?
 
8:15 PM
(A la what happened to usenet forums).
 
@BradL what frustrated you?
 
@BilltheLizard Depends if you mean auto-flagged or flagged by a /review watcher. I'm currently pretty unimpressed with the auto-flags, they're usually wrong; flags by an actual person are usually right. Generally I end up editing them rather than deleting them, or converting to a comment; it's rare for the post to be completely beyond saving
 
Re: large number of flags. I would think that would depend on why the texts was flagged. Is the answers, though they contain valuable content, full of bad language, then I would think a ban would be appropriate after fair warnings were given. I doubt hard black and white rules can be written for that sort of thing though.
 
@BilltheLizard They should be edited if at all possible. If they are just 'thank yous' they should be removed. If they are questions directed at someone, they should be made into comments.
 
Kev
@Shog9 good questions/lots of argument flags: I think 3-4 warnings by email then I'd want to see them suspended. there are plenty of other users out there providing excellent answers. why have the community annoyed permanently by one bad egg.
 
8:17 PM
@Adam davis Re: addiction: I'm not addicted to Stack Overflow as much as I'm dedicated to making sure that this online community stays a viable resource for programmers. Since the internet began we've seen our communities erode because people didn't stand up and take care of them, and Stack Overflow is one of the first communities I've seen that bakes in that process of 'tilling the garden'. I want to till the garden and give back to the community that has given me so much.
 
@AdamDavis There's a couple decisions I pretty strongly disagree with (I still to this day pick fights about the rep needed to comment), but on the whole we probably agree on most things. I don't think agreeing with SOIS is all that big of an issue though
 
@MichaelMrozek I agree with @MichaelMrozek, I think (hope?) that the number of people out to just be evil is small, and that people err because they don't know that they are doing it. Guidance and communication is probably a good way to deal with it.
 
@Justin I would make that judgement based on rep. If they had a little rep, two or three email warnings. If they had 10k, I might not even email. Shouldn't that depend on rep to an extent? Nooks need emails for guidance. Experienced users should know better.
 
@AdamDavis I mostly agree with the decisions of the Jeff/Joels. They are running a business, and they are doing what they feel is right to foster a positive community that produces great questions and answers. Some people don't understand that this is a business.
 
Suspending users: I don't think users should be suspended except in extreme circumstances. I don't think it does much except to frustrate and discourage them. If they're determined, they'll just create a different account. If they're not, then we've lost a potential contributor. I'd much rather focus on educating them and helping them understand how they can improve in their questioning and answering abilities, and (by extension) in their programming abilities.
 
8:18 PM
@Bill: re low quality. Depends on the question. Some questions appear low quality because the asker has poor English skills. I've rewritten a few which were teetering on the edge of downvote oblivion - sometimes a little insight makes all the difference. So I'd always be mindful that a poor question can be turned around.
 
@Moshe Moshe, I would still warn higher rep users a few times. A suspension feels scary, and we don't want to drive high rep users away. Because they obviously provide good content to the site.
 
(or post thousands of mediocre questions...)
 
@Shog9 I don't think arguments are all that big of a deal, honestly, and you already saw my opinion on most comment flags on SO. But assuming you mean "how would you feel about a user that produces high quality answers but is constantly being rude/annoying people", I don't think the former allows the latter; message them about it and suspend them if they refuse to stop (again, unlikely)
 
@Moshe We probably shouldn't clutter up the chat with an on-the-side conversation, but repeatedly voting to close as an obvious duplicate, and then watching my vote expire as the only one makes it feel like a futile exercise.
 
Low quality Q&A: (I was about to write a long response, but then @PaulDixon wrote everything I was going to say)
 
8:19 PM
I'm too busy answering to read everyone else's answers -_-. I'll have to go back through this later
 
Kev
@AdamDavis - wouldn't say I'm addicted but I do have a keen interest in what goes on. If I was addicted I'd have been on the site all weekend, but this weekend took a bit of a work/IT related holiday to recharge.
 
@Shog9 re: problem users: we've seen that before. The best thing to do is try to get the user to change their behavior by exploiting that which they care about. It starts with the premise that everyone wants to do well. You have to find what drives them, and gently push them towards good behavior by allowing them to do what drives them, and steering them away from the part that gets them in trouble. This, of course, is if the user is really valuable to the community.
 
*for people who excel at answering questions on SO practically before they're answered, y'all are moving slowly today... ;-) *
 
Re: low quality, I agree with @PaulDixon, it depends. I think communication is the key (to many of the questions here) though. Most of the really low quality questions I deal with are due to bad language skills. I wish those people were to ask for help in a comment though, you'd be surprised at how much people people will give you if you just admit to not knowing.
 
Any current mods here besides @BilltheLizard? I'm rather interested in their questions
 
8:20 PM
That's partly why dedication and a sense of community vision is really important for a moderator: They have to know what needs to be done before it becomes an issue.
 
MOD TOOL QUESTION: What do you consider to be appropriate circumstances for merging questions?
 
Jeff&Joel: I have yet to find a policy they've implemented that I disagree with, mostly because I'm not looking to disagree with them. I just like to help people learn and love to participate in that environment of learning
 
@Adam: Re Jeff/Joel question. Pretty much agree. Personally, I think democracy in a site like this can only go so far. At some point, you need a "benevolent dictator". So far, Jeff and Joel have been very fine in this regard.
 
Re: Addiction, I'm "addicted" in the way that I visit it every day and try to answer questions as often as I can, though sadly there has been fewer questions I've felt I can/should answer for a short while now. I do use and recommend SO to everyone I know though, I'm still taken by the speed at which you get good answers on these sites.
 
@AdamDavis re: agreeing with Joel and Jeff: I find that I side more with Joel than Jeff, and anytime I've disagreed with Jeff I've laid out my arguments for why (see meta). I see them as two sides of the same coin, and I'm working on trying to better see Jeff's point of view on some things.
 
8:21 PM
@BradL I gotcha. I just passed 3k so I can help. My phone battery is dying, so I am going to "walk out". I'll be back later if possible.
 
@Shog9 Those users need to be warned through email. Then they need to be suspended for a very short time. (1 day) so they know we are serious. But, if that fails, they should be suspended for a longer period. We don't want people poisoning the community.
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson Not all users put in their email, if they log in at all.
 
What do you think is the most common mistake that average SO users make, and how can you help the masses of us to do better?
 
Kev
@BilltheLizard : Low quality - I don't treat them any differently than what I encounter on the site on a regular basis. I take a look, see what can be improved, bin what can't (edit/merge/flag)
 
@ErickRobertson W3Schools? Do you mean programming mistakes or SO mistakes?
 
8:22 PM
Re: Agreeing with Joel and Jeff; I agree with most of their decisions, but I've also been vocal about a few I don't agree with, though most of these are now void (not as in "implemented", but mostly due to the features no longer working the way I disagreed with.)
 
@BillTheLizard re: Low Quality: First is trying to see if maybe this was an answer that was posted by an otherwise good answerer. If there's a history with this user and it's causing detriment to the community, then action may need to be taken. If it's just noise, then simply deleting the cruft from the system is the way to go.
 
@badp There's a very new thing to deal with that now, where mods can message people directly
 
@badp For those users you have to leave comments. And use very short suspension. Or ask for their email.
 
user333306
Is there anything on SO you would like to be improved?
 
@SLaks I mean SO mistakes.
 
8:24 PM
@Pierre303 It would be silly to wait for a diamond to propose improvements.
 
@ErickRobertson Not accepting answers; not formatting their code.
 
Merging Questions: I'd say questions are ripe for merging if you could copy and paste the accepted answers from one to the other, and they'd still be the accepted answer. Obviously this would need to be on a case-by-case basis (especially with the recent change in direction regarding duplicates).
 
Based on your observations of current SO diamond moderators and Meta.SO and thus diamond moderation policy, how long do you think it would take for you to learn the ropes and be comfortable with the diamond mod tools, and why?
 
@Erick Re: Common mistakes: We are all (myself included) way too invested in our own questions. So when others edit our questions, we react with anger when we should probably take a 'wait and see' approach. Our egos get in our ways sometimes.
 
@Shog9 (Merging): I really don't like merging questions. Remember some duplicates are ok! I just think that the duplicate with the least content should be closed as a duplicate and linked to the other.
 
8:24 PM
Re: Common mistakes: Formatting seems to be a major problem for new users, I wonder if the preview part of the web page is not prominent enough, or moved too far down. Should a mandatory "please review your question before posting" page be shown for new users? (is such a page shown for new users?)
 
user333306
badp: I guess. I want to know what.
 
@Shog9 The info text about it is pretty clear, actually: "Questions should be merged when they are 99% identical and it would be beneficial to have all the answers in one place.". I'm not really in agreement with SOIS about generalizing questions to the point where you're changing the likely answers though. If a question is asked that's a subset of an existing question, and that question already has answers that address the new question, it's probably safe to merge
 
Kev
re: agreeing with J&J - can't say I'm always in agreement with them, not sure I should be. but that said, if it's site convention then I go with it. There's always meta to gauge what the rest of the community thinks with a question or challenge.
 
@waiwai933 (Mod Tools): From what I know, I feel I could get the hang of things quickly. I have interacted with mods enough to know what they have access to, and the idea behind using them. I'd say, give me a week or so.
 
@LasseVKarlsen yes, stackoverflow.com/questions/ask-advice is shown to new askers
 
8:25 PM
@Shog9: Re merging. For a merge, the questions must be identical both in theme and the direction from which they are asked. This is going to be hard to explain without a concrete example, but what I mean is that I think questions serve to leave a trail for people that will find them later. Merging can potential remove such a trail, reducing the usefulness of the site.
 
Improvement to SO: I know this has been shot down in the past, but I still think that some sort of "private messaging" system could be really beneficial. For example, if a user is continually posting answers that should be edits to a question, it'd be nice to be able to PM them explaining how things work, as opposed to trying to cram it into a comment.
 
@balpha: That's not quite what I meant, is the question shown back to the person asking him to review the final rendering, before posting it? I assume no.
 
@balpha It doesn't seem to help very much.
 
@Shog9 Merging: The question should be merged when it's apparent to the most casual observer that two people are asking the same question, and the answers, when merged, could be equally about either.
 
@LasseVKarlsen ah, no, that doesn't happen
 
8:26 PM
@ErickRobertson Not understanding the distinction between questions, answers, and comments, which is conveniently one of the ways mods help quite a lot, since they're the only people that can delete answers or convert answers to comments. At the moment the only way I know to help people is to comment telling them what they did wrong, but hopefully at some point the engine itself is changed to clear up the confusion about when you should post an answer vs. a comment or a new question
 
@PaulDixon (remember, merging no longer deletes the merge source - you get a stub that'll forward to the merge result)
 
If not, then that would be one of the things I think could use with an improvement.
 
@DaveDeLong That's in the works right now as a moderator tool... and it is pretty awesome.
 
@Pierre303 (Improving SO): I would like people to be more friendly to people that aren't great with english. Lots of viable questions get closed just because of the language barrier. I don't think that's right.
 
@BilltheLizard hurrah! :)
 
8:26 PM
Question: do you feel that you tend towards "keeping the site clean/exclusiveness" (if you see a closed question with little merit as a mod, say, you'll delete it), or "allow more than some/inclusiveness" (you tend to vote to re-open more than others, to give questions a chance)?
 
I'm going to have to read the transcript just to read everyone else's answers. it's taking everything I have just to keep up with the questions. Gotta type faster.
 
How much time do you think you'll spend moderating?
 
Do you think mods should be allowed to approve or deny incoming migrated questions?
 
user333306
@justin: you got my vote :)
 
@Shog: I haven't seen many merges. Thanks for the correction. The answers get merged though?
 
8:28 PM
@waiwai933 I'm a pro-tem mod on one of the SE sites, so I know the tools; I assume SO's massive number of flags introduces some new challenges though. I don't expect much in the way of ramp-up time, but I don't think any of the nominees would have much difficulty
 
@MichaelPetrotta re: Close vs. Open: As my record shows, I try to rehabilitate bad questions (by editing them to improve them, or retagging them), and when a question can't be rehabilitated, I vote to close it. If it's blatantly off topic, I'll vote to close it and let the OP know why. In everything I do, I try to be that person that makes it better before it's just closed.
 
Kev
>How much time do you think you'll spend moderating?: probably around 1.5-2hrs a day. I work from home so I can spread this quite easily.
 
Oooh, speaking of George's slow typing... How important do you feel typing speed is to a moderator?
(don't answer that)
 
Re: exclusive/open: I have an open mind, and I have messed up things in my personal life pretty badly some times and been given second chances by my friends and family, I believe in second chances. Within limits of course. If I think it might be doable I currently try to help people get their answers rather than just getting rid of the question because it's not "on topic" or "good enough"
 
@RebeccaChernoff (Time): I plan on spending around 2-3 hours a day moderating. I don't answer nearly as many questions as I used to, and I usually just spend my time on the site reading editing and closing. I am constantly refreshing SO.
 
8:28 PM
@PaulDixon yes, you get one question with all the answers, and the other question with a link (or auto redirect, if it's deleted)
 
Exclusivity vs Inclusivity: I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity. SO is (IMO) supposed to be a repository of useful knowledge. Useful knowledge includes both bad questions and good questions.
 
@Pierre303 Thats awesome! Thanks.
 
@MichaelPetrotta I very much dislike when people choose to close questions that just need to be edited (e.g. the poster doesn't know English well and it's a bit difficult to read); I'll happily edit those and reopen them (I do it now, except my reopen isn't binding)
 
Re: Time spent moderating, probably 1-2 hours a day, though I would think this would be hard to quantify. I am online most of my day, both working day and at home, and I would think the actual things I would do (edit for language, comment for clarity, mod for quality) would blend together. Though to be exact, that's what I expect, if I have the time I would just do what is needed, it's not like I would say "Ok, that's 2 hours of modding, where's my coffee"
 
@Rebecca Re:"Time spent moderating" I usually spend about 10 minutes every hour just pruning things on Stack Overflow, and in the evenings I'm around frequently. Stack Overflow is mostly self-regulating, but there are occasions where I findmyself tweeting to @BilltheLizard that a question needs to be closed or there's a problem user.
Instead of coffee breaks, I have Stack Overflow breaks.
 
Kev
8:30 PM
@waiwai933 : Based on your observations of current SO diamond moderators - I think I have a pretty good feel for the good and the bad. 97% of my flags get actioned by the diamond mods already
 
@MichaelPetrotta (Exclusiveity): I'm a give-em-a-second-chance kind of a guy. People can edit and fix questions. Everyone deserves an answer.
 
user333306
Do you think the actual number of moderators is enough?
 
@waiwai933: re tools. I think it might take a week or two until I'd learned the most appropriate use of the additional tools. In the same way that when you reach 10k, you don't suddenly start mucking around with everything, you need to get some feel for what is appropriate (and what has gone before).
 
Common SO mistake: mistagging. A lot of the edits I make to questions are to re-tag them. Tag synonyms are a decent solution, but I'd love to see a bunch of cleanup done to the tags.
 
@RebeccaChernoff I suspect this is a trick question since the SF town hall was talking about burnout, but I'm on miscellaneous SE sites pretty much all day long; I just refresh periodically to see if any interesting questions have come up. On Unix I drop everything if I see a flag since they're so rare; on SO I assume there are flags all the time, so that won't work anymore, but I'll probably try and go through the list if I see a large number of new flags I haven't looked at
 
8:31 PM
@Kev Out of curiosity, where do you get that percentage from?
 
@Pierre 303 re: Number of moderators: It's an ever growing community. The real question is, "Currently, are there times on Stack Overflow where problems seem to be happening more than they're fixed?" If the answer is yes, then we need more moderators.
 
@Pierre303 I actually didn't expect SO to have an election; my flags get handled really fast as-is. Possibly the current mods have been working too hard though. (Edit: Mostly by @BilltheLizard, who's apparently in pain )
 
@Pierre303: No. Next question. ;)
 
Re: Number of moderators. There's some situations where flags are left longer than necessary (in my opinion) so though we have quite a few good moderators already, they can't be expected to work round the clock. Having a few more is a good thing I think, to get more coverage.
 
Kev
@BradLarson - i keep the tabs on my browser open until I see something has happened
 
8:32 PM
Moderator learning curve: Obviously everything has a learning curve. I'd estimate that I'd probably get to understand the basics of the tools in a couple of days, but since I've never seen them, I really have no idea. However, I consider myself a pretty intelligent guy, so it shouldn't be too big of a problem :)
 
@ErickRobertson (Common mistake): Definitely tagging and poor quality of questions. People dont understand that we require questions to be good and answerable on the site for them to survive. I would promote teaching people how to ask good questions.
 
@Pierre 303 Re: SO improvements: I'd like to see people who make bad questions better (the editors and retaggers) get something for their efforts. That's what separates Stack Overflow from Just Another Programmer forum: The ability to turn rough questions into quality questions.
 
If you were banned right now from even viewing SO/SE, what would you spend all of your newfound time doing?
 
Time spent moderating: Well, I'm on the site for several hours every day, so "at least several hours every day" (583 consecutive days and counting! :))
 
Re: Banned from viewing SO. Gnash my teeth, wail at the wall. Next question :)
 
8:32 PM
@ErickRobertson T_T
 
PERSONAL PHILOSOPHY QUESTION: Ability to edit other people's answers - great SO feature, or greatest SO feature?
 
Yes, @BilltheLizard works like a dog as a moderator on SO. Big kudos and thanks.
 
Was anybody eagerly awaiting my answer to a question and think I missed it? I think I've got all of them so far
 
Banned from SO: I'd probably get more actual work done...
 
@John (Incoming migrated question): Yes, mods should be able to see newly migrated questions. However there should be a voting mechanism. And mods shouldn't have to approve a question for it to be mighrated; they should just have to option to vote to reject it.
 
8:34 PM
@balpha: Glad to do it.
 
@Rebecca: Re time spent moderating: I have a 4-screen setup in my office, and I'd have a window open on SO from 0900-1800 UTC. From 2000-0000 I'm normally online and checking SO too. During those hours, I'd be able to respond to flagged items very quickly.
 
@waiwai933 Re: Time to learn: I think the initial learning curve of the tools would be minutes, but the actual usage of them I think I already have since I participate heavily in community discussion. I feel like I have a good pulse on what the community wants.
 
Kev
@Pierre303 @GeorgeStocker Re: SO improvements: I agree with george here. I've spent 15-20mins pulling a Q&A thread back to sanity with edits, merging updates as answers into the OP etc. It's a canutian task which often goes unrecognised
 
Ability to edit other answers: great feature. The greatest feature is the ability to edit other peoples's questions. The quality of the answer is usually defined by the quality of the question.
 
@Shog9 I think editors (I guess that term is ambiguous now, but I mean 2k users) do a great job. I'm less convinced that new users are good at it; I've seen some very poor edit suggestions in the short time that feature's been up
 
8:34 PM
Re: Ability to edit other people's answers: next best thing, multiple sites instead of one site that rule them all: best feature.
 
Actually, there's a question in there: how do you all feel about the edit suggestions feature? Net good? Bad?
 
@Shog9 (editing answers): Greatest. I've often times edited links into people's answers to make them better. It really improves the quality of the site,
 
Question: When should questions be closed and just left alone vs. when should they be closed and deleted? That is, when do you believe in deleting content?
 
@Shog9: re ability to edit answers: it's another one of those features that differentiates from a forum. I'd say it is certainly one of the greatest for that reason. It allows older information to be corrected (or just plain wrong information).
 
@MichaelMrozek (Edit suggestion): Great in theory. Not sure about the implementation yet.
 
8:36 PM
For those of you with low MSO rep, do you read questions and answers on MSO? If not, do you think this will impair your understanding of SO policy, and why?
 
@Shog9 Editing other people's answers: At first I had a selfish approach to it, because I wanted the reputation. Now I just want the person to find the best answer possible, so I've started doing things like this: stackoverflow.com/questions/4763550/…
 
Re: Deleting content; I would ask "why are we closing it". Is it because it has had its fair share of answers and is now just attracting noise, like "What's your favorite color for comments", or does the question actually contain bad language or similar? I would close a question that has had "enough" answers, I would delete if I deem inappropriate.
 
@GeorgeStocker Good edit. Brought a tear to my eye.
 
@BradLarson I rarely delete closed posts, which I think is different from most people; I've gotten in arguments over whether or not a post should be deleted. Obviously spam posts and posts beyond savings are out, and useful duplicates should stay; it's the gray area in between that I tend to leave undeleted when most people vote to delete. But then again, I guess for someone with a binding vote that's probably the way to go
 
Number of moderators: As the site continues to grow, we'll need more and more moderators. I haven't noticed a distinct need for more moderators, but I also try to do as much cleanup myself as possible. I think I've needed a moderator about once a month.
 
Kev
8:36 PM
@ErickRobertson : common mistakes - code formatting (in fact some people just go mad with the editor generally) and poor tagging
 
@Michael: re edit suggestions. Agree with Justin: it's a great idea, but it hasn't worked that well in questions I've tried to use it in (edits move beyond the suggestion too fast)
 
Since @MichaelMrozek mentioned burnout, how can you avoid getting overwhelmed to the point that participating isn't fun anymore? And how can it be identified before it's "too late" in fellow mods?
 
@Brad Re: Closed vs. Closed an deleting: Closed when the question outlives its usefulness for new information. Deleted when it's outlived its usefulness and it has no redeeming value to someone coming in from Google.
 
@BradLarson (deleting): I hate deleting content. Only actively negative content should be deleted. Spam, incomprehensible garbage, or offensive content. I suppose stuff that is off-topic and closed can be deleted too. But I probably wont do that myself.
 
The nice middleground is locking a question.
 
8:38 PM
@RebeccaChernoff Re: Burnout: If a moderator is always complaining, that's a sure sign :)
 
@RebeccaChernoff Is that an actual problem that's been seen in the past? I would expect there's enough mods that if I weren't enjoying it I would just tone back my activity a bit
 
Closing vs Deleting questions: I believe in deleting questions when there's no way you could get a good and relevant answer out of it and the archival value of the question itself is negligible. A closed question will still show up in search results, and so a question is only worth deleting if it detracts from finding correct information.
 
@waiwai933: I have low meta rep, though I do read it. If I became a moderator I would feel obliged to be more active there, and I wouldn't have a problem with that. I think people should expect to see how site moderators stand on the issues raised there.
 
user333306
Do you think it's the role of the moderator to calm down condescending, arrangant, disdainful, or aggressive answers or comments not really helping the user the question?
 
@Rebecca Re: Burnout: I spend a 'natural' amount of time on Stack Overflow, in that I'm not constantly looking at new questions, but because of my work, the natural rythym of my day allows me to spend time on Stack Overflow in intervals that don't cause burnout.
 
8:39 PM
@LasseVKarlsen True, but I imagine mod burnout is less evidenced by mods saying "wow I hate this" and more by them snapping at users and getting in fights, which is obviously bad
 
@RebeccaChernoff (Burnout): I can't imagine getting burned out at this point. SO is still a really fun 'game' for me. I really enjoy visiting hte site and interacting with tons of smart programmers every day. The day I get burnt out will be a very sad day indeed. And it will be a very long time from now.
 
(See one of my previous answers "Stack Overflow breaks vs Coffee Breaks")
 
user333306
The user that asks the question
 
Kev
@RebeccaChernoff - burnout - working from home for the past 8 years I've learned when to back off and relax....I already do the same with SO, always keep it fun is my moto
 
@LasseVKarlsen wouldn't that discourage complaints at some point? People shouldn't be afraid to complain and stand for their views if they believe it's right. Of course everyone has to listen too, and accept when proven wrong.
 
8:39 PM
Low MSO rep: I admit, I've never been very active on MSO, because I've usually been very content with the functionality and behavior of SO. However, this election process has taught me that I need to be more active there, so I've started incorporating MSO into my list of sites I routine visit.
 
@MichaelMrozek Yes, I agree. I assume you can flag moderator behavior for moderator examination? :)
 
@MichaelMrozek It's been seen, yes...in part because the load isn't spread out.
 
@LasseVKarlsen You could always just find them on chat and tell them to chill out :). It's happened before
 
@jweyrich I should've clarified. I meant that if a fellow moderator always says "Those stupid users ...", "Why can't they just ...", etc. then I'd assume that moderator needs to find the fun stuff back.
 
@Pierre303 (calm down people): No. That is the job of other editors. If it becomes a reoccurring problem, then yes, a mod should step in. But we have a great community of editors that can edit out agression for us. (I woudl edit comments if flagged though)
 
8:41 PM
@Pierre303 The moderator is sort of a gentle guide to keeping SO on track. The theory is to do the least amount possible to keep it on track (don't 'over-moderate'). Becoming friends with people and using the friendships to effect change in their behavior is the best way to moderate. The community keeps people in line pretty well, moderators only need to step in when it gets out of hand.
 
@LasseVKarlsen oh, got your point.
 
@rebecca: re burnout: I think you just need a sense of perspective. If it you get out less than you put in, you just have to stop. There's no point in feeling overwhelmed, or frustrated. I'm a very laid back individual though!
 
@Pierre303 They certainly can, although hopefully regular users are doing that as well. I've seen mods step in when a comment thread is out of control, but it's pretty rare; in very rare cases I've seen them wipe out whole comment threads that were completely useless. Hopefully the community will handle most of that
 
Kev
@Pierre303 Do you think it's the role of the moderator to calm down condescending, arrangant, disdainful, or aggressive...: most definitely. Also the mod has to approach this by not being equally condescending or patronising initially.
 
@Pierre303 Re: Calming people down. Well, if I come across a person being condescending or similar, I would ask that person to moderate himself (no pun intended), but that would be as a fellow user of the site. I figure that if he doesn't stop doing what he does, others will start flagging his comments/answers and a moderator would have to step in. As I said earlier, I hope people that wants to be evil are few in numbers and that most problems are due to people not knowing that they generate noise.
 
8:42 PM
Burnout: I believe that all things should be done in moderation (except for consuming chocolate). If I feel I'm getting burned out on SO, then I may sit back and let my brain rest for a day before diving back in. However, I'm coming up on 600 consecutive days of contribution and I haven't gotten burned out yet, so I think I've done pretty well at keeping things in balance.
 
@ErickRobertson (If I were banned): I would spend more time working on my hobby projects. Maybe i'd have time to work on StackWrap4J or RepCompare.
 
@MichaelMrozek Was just gonna ask what folks feelings are on comment-thread wiping. I've seen some new mods go nuts with that ability.
 
@Michael re: Edit suggestions: It's a step in the right direction, but I think it's going to create more work for people. If we instead encouraged editing by giving it reputation rewards (much like we do for answers), then we could do this without as much work.
 
Kev
@ErickRobertson : If you were banned right now from even viewing SO/SE, what would you spend all of your newfound time doing? - start that company I've been procrastinating about.
 
@Shog9 Really? I've never done it on UL, and don't anticipate doing it on SO, honestly; it's pretty rare to see a giant block of comments completely without merit
 
8:44 PM
@pierre: The entire community can calm down those incidents, but moderators can help to lend a little gravitas, not just because of the tools, but because they are likely to have resolved similar situations in the past. Moderators can thus not only deal with the problem, but illustrate to other active users the most diplomatic way to deal with such problems.
 
A diamond will be attached to everything you say, including questions, answers and comments. Everything you will do will be seen under a different light. How do you feel about that?
 
Apparently I can't star any more questions; I'm out of stars :(. Sorry everyone who asks a question from this point forward
 
Dealing with angry posts: Would it be my job to "calm them down"? I don't think so. I'd say it would be my job to simply inform them that their behavior isn't contributing to the site and that if it continues, they'd be subject to [appropriate moderator action]. Hopefully they'll be smart enough to take the hint, and if not then that's their choice.
 
@Shog9 (deleting comments) I would try not to delete comments. That just leaves a really bad taste in people's mouths. Offensive stuff should be deleted. But I never thought comments were too noisy.
 
@MichaelMrozek re: Edit Suggestions: I'm not saying giving reputation rewards for editing is easy, but I've written about the feature I think would help here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/56817/…
 
8:45 PM
@Shog9 Re: Comment thread wiping. Well, if nothing good can come out of the thread, then I would assume wiping it would go hand in hand with sterner measures regarding the people, but I can't say I've seen such a situation so I don't know why they are wiped (yet.) For instance, if you got two people in a name-calling fight, wiping that part of the thread is probably a good idea, but a good talking-to of the participants is probably a good idea too.
 
Kev
@badp : A diamond will be attached to everything you say... : in much the same way that everything I say or do on the site at the moment. Think before clicking submit.
 
How would you handle questions raised on Meta about your actions? Would you be willing to reverse an action?
 
@Kev Well, obviously everything you say and think is correct and official because you've got that big bold diamond
 
@badp (diamond): I will probably act a little more responsibly. I represent the community, so I need to be respectful, and helpful, and patient. I realize that people might look at me differently, but I'm ok with that.
 
With respect to people bringing their grievances to MSO, moderators may often be in a position where their input is necessary to explain a particular decision. The OP in these cases may not be willing to accept that explanation, at least at first. How do you determine when trying to help a user stops being productive, and starts becoming a waste of time, and how does this determination impact your general moderation philosophy (as far as closing versus encouraging edits, etc.)?
 
8:46 PM
@LasseVKarlsen excellent point on talking to the participants. Wiping a thread and then trying to resolve the dispute can end up throwing gas on the flames...
 
@badp: re 'diamonds'. In another community I'm active on (geocaching) moderators use a separate username when acting in an official capacity. Obviously, SO lacks this (and rightly so, I think). I don't think it will change how I act, as I always post with the mindset of "does this reflect well on me, and does it reflect well on the site".
 
Kev
@MichaelMrozek - Comment thread wiping - if the comments don't add value and are a bun fight then I don't have a problem. go somewhere else and discuss.
 
@badp: Re diamond: You know, that's one part of being a moderator I'm not sure I like, but at the same time I like it. I'm a bit dual opinioned on that issue. First of all, people should know that I'm a moderator, so that when I finally step out of the shadows and ... you know ... moderate, it doesn't come as a surprise. I don't like undercover cops. On the other hand, getting that diamond on everything, yes, people will see things in a new light.
@badp Should I be afraid that my answers would be deemed "better" just because I'm a moderator? Would people think "Oh, and here comes a moderator to save the day... woopdeedoo". I just don't know.
 
@RebeccaChernoff Presuming it was a mistake, of course; I'm generally not going to reverse an action because someone didn't like it ("my post had four upvotes and you still closed it", etc.)
 
@RebeccaChernoff (meta feedback): I would love feedback in meta!! The only way I know I'm doing a good/bad job is for people to tell me. I'm always willing to listen and learn. And if I act in a way that needs to be called out, then I hope somebody is willing to do that.
 
8:47 PM
@PaulDixon Yeah, Reddit also has a button to flag a message as "Yo, I'm the mod, you better pay attention"
 
@badp re: Shining light: I'm glad Moderator actions are reviewed by the community. I think it's invaluable to the long term thriving of the community. More transparency is always better. If a moderator can't logically articulate why they took an action, then they shouldn't take that action. "because I said so" does not, and should not work. Ever.
 
A diamond is forever: having a diamond attached to everything I do is an interesting question. Because I experience something similar already with my work, I've learned that I sometimes have to pre- and post-fix my contributions with stuff like "this is my own opinion and not that of [my employer]". Beyond that, I consider myself a person of integrity, and expect that none of my actions would ever be seen as negatively affecting the site.
 
@GeorgeStocker I'm not talking about moderation, but about normal asking, answering and commenting :)
 
(continuing) In a nutshell, I'm ok with a diamond being on everything I do. :)
 
@badp I honestly prefer the reddit style, where you look like a normal user most of the time and you click a button to say "and now I'm speaking as a mod". I don't post answers much anyone these days (as I said, I must prefer editing and other maintenance stuff), so I don't think it'll be a big deal; if I were going to be posting answers a lot, I honestly would probably make a sockpuppet for it :)
 
8:49 PM
@RebeccaChernoff Re: Reversing actions. Yes, absolutely. Not on a whim mind you, but though I have strong opinions and convictions (is that the right word?) I'm not adverse to changing my mind and/or admitting I was/is wrong. I would assume such a message, ie. "you need to fix that, revert it" would come partly from other high-rep members of the community, or other moderators. I wouldn't reverse closing a post or whatnot just because the person that posted it disagreed.
 
Kev
@badp - true, but then as a SO user of long standing should I not also show respect etc to other users. not having a diamond doesn't make it an excuse to behave badly.
 
@Rebecca: re reversing an action: I think I'd do my best to explain the reasoning, but if there were good arguments to the contrary, you have to learn from that. Moderators are individuals, and aren't always going to act in identical ways.
 
MSO discussion about me: No one is above the law. :) If the community feels that I've moderated in error, I'm not so proud as to not take correction. I may try to argue for my position, but in the end I will accept the community's decision.
 
As for reversals, I would think that those things fall under the "there's no way to make a black and white rulebook on these things", so it would probably depend.
 
@Rebecca Re: Questions raised on meta: I would answer them in public, right there. Of course, if I took an action that would cause issues, I would make sure the person who I took it against would know first, so that there was no confusion on their part. That person and I should have a dialog that predates the action and postdates the action.
 
8:50 PM
@TimStone (disagreeing with people): If I can't convince someone that the action I took was right, I might ask for a second opinion from a mod. I'm not infalable, I make mistakes. So before I brush this person off, I'd make sure I did the right thing.
(Are there any questions I have missed)
 
@Rebecca Re: Being wrong: If I'm wrong, I'm confident the community will tell me loudly, and I would own up if it were a mistake I made. I try to move gently enough that those instances would be few and far between.
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson I think you got them all, but I'm not 100% sure.
 
Kev
@RebeccaChernoff - reversing actions reported on MSO - would depend. If the action complied with site conventions then no (and cite relevant faq). If the action was a grey area then I think I'd have had a chat with other mods before taking said action.
 
@TimStone Ok, thanks. I'm having trouble keeping up.
 
If I didn't answer your question, it's probably because I was dodging the issue and trying to return the focus to my new health care plan
 
8:52 PM
question: what do you think about the recent popular top voted questions deletion (ex:What was your first home computer?)? Are you going to be a "deletionist" or an "inclusionist"?
 
@TimStone re: Users disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing: When the determination is made that they're just rabble rousing, then it becomes a "Don't feed the troll." Issue. The community will see it for what it is, and if the moderator has done anything wrong, then community will say so. If the user is in the wrong, the community will say so. That's one of the best things about our Meta site.
 
"You have fully used your vote allowance for today"
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson Yes, I also ran into that limit.
 
@MichaelMrozek did you see this by Dave Barry? washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/23/…
 
8 mins ago, by Michael Mrozek
Apparently I can't star any more questions; I'm out of stars :(. Sorry everyone who asks a question from this point forward
 
8:53 PM
@Brad: re deleting: Content should be deleted if it offers no future value to the people that will read it tomorrow, next week and next year. Deleting just to clear up a flame war might not be the best thing: battlefields should not be paved over! They should be preserved as monuments for those that come later :)
 
Grievances: just as I'm willing to answer questions related to programming, I'm willing to answer questions about my behavior. The point where I stop being willing is something that depends on the questions being asked, how the questioner is accepting my input, what other moderators are saying, etc.
 
@systempuntoout I think this may have been partially addressed earlier, in case not everyone responds specifically to that.
 
@GeorgeStocker No, I just picked the first big issue I could think of :). "Creating new jobs" was the other contender
 
All questions are still making it to the list on the right, no worries.
 
@systempuntoout: Re deletionist/inclusionist. The case you bring up "What was your first home computer" is not a good question for this site (any more.) I would, depending on the question, migrate it, or if not, close it (optionally delete it.) However, as stated before, I tend to be open minded. "On topic" is a gray area and needs some leniency, just within limits.
 
8:54 PM
@systempuntoout (deletionist?): I've said this a few times, but I'm an inclusionist. I will not delete questions unless absolutely necessary. I understand the decision to do it. And I am ok with it. However, you will not see me deleting that content.
 
@systempuntoout I'm personally a deletionist when it comes to those (unless they're old, in which case I just ignore them since trying to apply a policy retroactively is pretty difficult), but I would anticipate just not voting on them at all as a mod; the community can handle that sort of thing
 
A more general question would be: how do you feel about (and how would you handle) off-topic questions that get answers and upvotes, ie, the community likes?
 
@systempunto (re: Deletionist vs Inclusionist) GTKY questions that have value to googlers are different than GTKY questions like your first computer. As an example, I recently googled 'Good mice for programmers'. This question is a great question, but it doesn't belong on Stack Overflow. I hope it has a home on Programmers, though. But it does have use (not as much as the "Best Keyboard for programmers though). see: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/505?m=288908#288908
 
Deleting popular questions: questions like "what was your 1st computer" and "what's your favorite joke" are fun, but I don't think they really have much to do with questions about how to program. In those cases, I'd be a "deletionist", because they don't belong on the site
 
Kev
@Pierre303 - Do you think the actual number of moderators is enough? : given the projected growth rates banded about recently in the IT press, I'd say they're a bit on the low side on SO.
 
8:56 PM
@RebeccaChernoff That's pretty much exactly the case where I wish mods had non-binding votes; I'd like to vote to close them, but I don't want to just close them single-handedly, I'd prefer that other people be involved. I'd probably wait for the inevitable close votes from other people and vote fifth; that's what other mods seem to do
 
@Rebecca Re: Popular off topic questions: Let the community duke it out at first. Only step in if and when the community has not reached a consensus. The first 48 hours generate the most turmoil for a question, so it should be watched closely during that time.
 
@RebeccaChernoff: Re: answers/comments/upvotes to off-topic content. I would think that if the quality of the question is good, the quality of the answers are good, and the question is not entirely off-topic, I would think it should deserve a chance. However, there's also the problem now that there's so many users here that a handful of relatively new users shouldn't make a precedent on what the site contains. If enough of the new ones vote up, does that make it right? I would have to say no.
 
Handling off-topic questions: I'd probably start by posting a comment saying that it's off topic and discouraging people from answering. Depending on the question, it may lead to closing and/or deletion, but I'd probably consult with other moderators first (especially if the question is getting Hot)
 
@Kev I was surprised to discover recently that SU actually has one more mod than SO
 
@RebeccaChernoff Old off-topic questions with lots of votes should stay. New off-topic questions shouldn't have time to gain votes. They should be moved to the proper site and be answered/voted on there.
 
8:57 PM
When there's a level of uncertainty about what action you should take, you may be inclined to discuss it with your fellow moderators (as has been mentioned by a few of you). How long are you willing to put off a decision, should no one else be available? That is, is relatively swift action more important than caution, under the assumption that you can reverse your decision in many cases?
 
@rebecca Oddly enough, as a non-moderator, I always wish those questions would be closed or migrated quickly so they don't have a chance to generate such turmoil.
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson Exactly agree
 
@MichaelPetrotta : I think I'm more of an inclusionist, though I find myself closing more than I reopen. I feel it can be desperately unfair sometimes when a question gets closed so fast before a few edits or clarifications can be made.
 
On the topic of migration: how well do you think you understand the scope of other SE sites like SU, SF, or P.SE?
(and which makes the best trash bin?)
 
@rebecca but what seems to happen is that the Moderators stay out of it at first. Unless there's a compelling reason to change that, I'll continue that trend. It's one of those 'let's cross that bridge when we come to it' problems.
 
8:58 PM
@Shog9 SF has the most mauve.
 
What is with flagging people's answers? That's the second time
 
One thing I would have to say generally. Moderation is not a shoot-from-the-hip type of action. If I would come across a question I feel needs moderation, but it's not an air-tight case, I would let it sit and see how the rest of the community reacts. Things like downvotes, close requests, heavily editing it, etc. would be things that speak against it. If the overal reaction after some time is just positivt, then that speaks for it.
 
We're running out of time, if somebody wants to get a particularly difficult question in
 
@Shog: re trash! I think I understand them well enough. I don't think of them as trash receptacles though, just places where a question will reach a better audience :)
 
We're just about at the top of the hour, so last chance to ask and then we'll give the candidates a few minutes to catch up if there's anything they've missed.
 
8:59 PM
@Shog9: Re scope, I don't think any of the sites have earner the nickname "trash bin", though I feared P.SE would end up as one in its early days, looks much more promising now though. I feel I understand their scope pretty good though.
 
so many questions it is hard to keep up!
 
You kick it
 
@PaulDixon I was using stars to track which ones I'd answered, until the system stopped letting me star things :(
 
@TimStone (swift vs cautious):If the action can be reversed I would error on the side of swift. But I'm a huge fan of getting a second opinion. I'm very confident that I will make the right decision, and if I'm not 100% sure, I will ask another mod.
 
@badp, oy.
 
Kev
9:00 PM
@Shog9 On the topic of migration: SU/SF et al...I've a pretty good handle on their scope. also they're not an excuse to shuffle some low quality crap elsewhere for them to deal with. If it smells generally then it'll smell everywhere else. If I do vote to migrate then I'll edit into shape first
 
SO has trolling users. We all know some. Do you anticipate treating them differently than others when dealing with problematic questions or answers?
 
Uncertainty and time frames: I'm willing to put off a decision until I'm confident that the decision I'm going to make is the right one. Is there an upper bound to that? Probably, but if the post in question is really that difficult to decide, then that's probably a good indication that it should be moderated.
 
@shog9 re: Migration: That's where following precedent is important. You have to gauge not just one community but every community you want to migrate something to, so a good moderator should have an account on each site and spend time there (see my user accounts for how I do. I'm active on a number of sites related to programming, such as Webmasters, webapps, UI, and Programmers)
 
Alright, let's hold the questions and let the candidates finish up with the ones that have been asked.
 
No whammy no whammy...STOP
 
9:01 PM
Understanding the scope of SE: I think I have a pretty decent understanding. I don't spend time on most of the sites because they don't interest me, but I have a good idea of what they're fore.
 
@Shog9 (migrating): I have been around since the sites were created and i feel I know their topics very well. I am 100% confident with my ability to migrate stuff to the trilogy and P.SE. Over time I will grow more confident with other sites as well.
 
@MichaelPetrotta Re trolling users. Yes and no. I strongly believe in second chances, and if people show they are willing to improve and "fess up", but still err, I feel some lenience could be allowed. I hope I can separate work from personal though, so that answering/commenting could be done civilized.
 
@MichaelPetrotta I've answered that here: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/505?m=288794#288794
Just keeping it for the sake of cross referencing.
 
question: what do you think about removing earned reps on questions closed as duplicate? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/37466/…
 
waffles.
 
9:02 PM
@systempuntoout I've posed an entire question and suggested a course of action on that topic: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/52530/… It has 37 upvotes, so it has community support.
 
Kev
@MichaelPetrotta - don't get drawn under their bridge. hard lesson I've learned with one chap on SO. I know better now. Also if they're a persistent offender then there's always escalation to penalty box. but a lot of people "get it" when you call them out
 
@MichaelPetrotta (trolls): No, I will try not to treat trolls differently. Who knows, maybe they changed their minds, and now want to be a helpful member. I will never want to drive away users who could potentially deliver positive content to the site.
 
@systempuntoout: Re losing rep on duplicates: Why not? I agree, if you can cut and paste answers made before on duplicates, why earn reputation?
 
@MichaelPetrotta If people are literally on the site to cause a problem, I think they should be suspended; I think (and have said before) that [M]SO is too lenient with those people. They're very rare though; we all know the very small list of people who live to cause trouble
 
@GeorgeStocker: I missed that question, and your answer makes sense. I was thinking more of intentional trolls, though.
 
9:04 PM
@MichaelPetrotta If they have no redeeming qualities, then it's best to keep them away from the community as quickly as possible.
 
Trolls: As I've alluded to before, I'd probably send them a comment indicating that trolling is not desirable. If it continues and it seems appropriate, then further action might be necessary. However, you'd also have to factor in their number of positive contributions, etc. This would have to be a case-by-case decision.
 
@RebeccaChernoff You should have had @balpha make you a little bell to ring :P
 
@systempuntoout I used to be completely for it, until I realized that somebody posting a really good answer without knowing it's a duplicate would get pretty annoyed if they suddenly got no rep because they weren't the first person on the site to come up with that answer. Now I'm not sure, but I don't think it has much to do with being a moderator anyway :)
 
Unfortunately, Boxing is a private affair. I do believe there are times that it should be made public so it isn't seen as a moderator abusing their power.
 
@systempuntoout (remove rep on dupes): Terrible idea. We don't want to discourage answering or asking questions. Searching is hard. I see nothing wrong with having a few dupes around. And the people that provided good answers should be rewarded. It isn't the answerer's fault that hte question was a dupe.
 
9:04 PM
@TimStone haha
 
But that's a personal preference, and I do follow the present convention on that, even if I don't fully agree with it.
 
Candidates, any final remarks?
 
Does anyone else think of Battlestar galactica when the phrase 'boxing a user' is said?
 
@Michael: re trolls. You have to mentally disassociate what is being said from who is saying it, and respond solely to that. If you maintain a mental context of 'I don't like this guy', you shouldn't be a moderator.
 
and no, that's not a final remark.
Nor is that.
 
9:05 PM
@JustinjjnguyNelson And we were doing so well on agreeing on everything. They found a wedge issue!
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson and @MichaelMrozek Good points about not knowing its an duplicate. Didn't consider that part.
 
As a comment, I just want to say that I think we have a great group of moderator candidates. It was an honor to be beaten in the primaries by these ten people.
 
Rep for dupes: tough question. I like the philosophy on not getting rep for duplicates, but in many cases, the duplicate ends up getting better answers than the original. So as a general rule, I'd say let the community decide between upvotes, close votes, quality of answers, etc. It usually shows up pretty quickly if other users think a question is a dupe.
 
Kev
@PaulDixon - well said. Don't let them get under your skin.
 
(final remarks from non-candidates would be ok too I suppose q:)
 
9:06 PM
@GeorgeStocker Fortunately we don't have an air lock.
 
(have i missed anything?)
 
Final remarks? May the best contestant win, it's been a honor reaching this stage anyway :)
 
@PaulDixon It's nothing to do with what they said; my point is SO is surprisingly lenient with people everyone knows are just trying to cause problems. There are maybe four people who are infamous -- everyone knows they're trolling, but they get away with it for ages because they're careful enough
 
I like the quality of the candidates. It will be a hard vote.
 
(Duplicates) Most of the time people don't know its a dupe. I can't fault them for that.
 
9:06 PM
@rebecca re: Final remarks: I believe a moderator should be very active in the community, and should spend their time cleaning up the cruft and gently guiding the community. They should listen to the community and be fully transparent in what they do. They should participate on Meta.
 
Can't we just elect them all?
 
Obviously I'm not going to go crazy and ban all of them, but I think they should be banned, and I'd argue for it with other mods
 
Closing remarks: judging from the answers from the other candidates, I think that SO would be fine with any of us as moderators. You all seem to be intelligent and fair people. Good luck to all of us in the election. :)
 
May I ask one more question?
 
@MichaelPetrotta: what would life be without a little drama? Those aren't easy problems to solve, but I would hope I'd exercise good judgement!
 
9:08 PM
Well, if someone wants to answer: I recently reported an user possibly attempting to build a malware/trojan. He was asking various questions regarding the features he wanted, but each one on its own was generally legal and okay. What steps would you take when you see these "illegal activities"?
 
@Tim Stone re Uncertainty: Follow the precedent, ask your fellow mods for how they'd handle it, but most of all, remember that the community elected you, so they know you can do the job. Take solace in that.
 
@Dave: hear hear!
 
Final remark. Hmmm, this is hard. If you haven't already please read my (first ever) blog post about moderating: codingbycoincidence.blogspot.com/2011/01/what-moderator-is.html
 
@jweyrich That just came up recently, actually; discussing things that are probably illegal is kind of a gray area in the legal page. I think they're probably intended to be disallowed, even if the legal page doesn't actually spell it out, so I'd probably close them, but I'd appreciate some SOIS feedback first on what the official policy actually is
 
I really don't think you can go wrong with any of these candidates.
 
9:10 PM
Congratulations to everyone who made it this far, and thank you all for the contributions you've made to the community that have gotten you here.
 
@jweyrich Building malware or a trojan in of itself is not illegal. Putting one on other people's computers is. There is significant learning value in building malware and trojans for a learning experience. There's no reason to take action against this user. If the community doesn't want them to ask the questions, the questions will be voted down, closed, and deleted without a moderator getting involved.
 
questions on malware: i would still answer them (if I knew the answer), but add a warning that using this information for nefarious purposes would not be a Good Ideaâ„¢. A bunch of my answers contain warnings like this ("never do this in production code"). I answer because curiosity is a good thing, and the pursuit of knowledge is a desirable goal. What others choose to do with that knowledge is ultimately their own decision.
 
As we are past the top of the hour, I'd like to thank everyone for participating, especially the candidates. Good luck to all of you! I'll get a summary put up on Meta later today for those wanting to go through the transcript.
 
@jweyrich: you absolutely do not moderate that away. Those very same techniques can be used to combat malware, so a corpus of information on such techniques is useful. A rising tide floats all boats, and all that :)
 
@MichaelMrozek and @jweyrich It would depend on the questions though. I mean, would you ban my question about how to inject a dll into another process, just because it could be used to make a trojan?
 
9:10 PM
thank you all guys, good luck!
 
Kev
@jweyrich - I think you'd have to have pretty good evidence and know that what they're doing is illegal. How do you know they're not building they're own IDS or whatever tooling?
 
Indeed, it was good to see all of the responses. Thank you to the candidates for participating and keeping up with all of the questions. :)
 
@LasseVKarlsen No, and there are degrees; that question is probably fine. Questions like "how can I make a website that formats a user's computer when they go to it" are probably not
 
I have no problem with a few more questions if people want to stick around for a little bit, but just be aware that I did ask the candidates for an hour of their time and they may need to leave. (:
 
Thank you all for coming. I'm privileged to be in such good company.
 
9:11 PM
@jweyrich (Trojans): One final answer. I think I agree with everyone else. You cannot make the assumptions required to delete that content.
 
@MichaelMrozek: Oh, damn, I was going to post that question. Actually, I was going to ask how to make a website that would slap someone in the face when I wanted to. Guess that's not OK then?
 
I think it's safe to say that no matter who is elected, Stack Overflow is in good hands.
 
This was fun!
 
Finally:
How do I parse HTML with regexp?
 
You kick it
Same answer as for the logo question
 
9:12 PM
@LasseVKarlsen That's probably cool; slapping isn't illegal :)
 
(bah, what was the meme trigger again?)
 
Slapping is appropriate!
 
@badp <[^>]*>
 
@GeorgeStocker I totally agree. :)
 
That was fun and enlighting. Based on the primaries there were a couple of very likely winners though :) Good luck all. Will hang around for a bit!
 
9:12 PM
bah, I prefer "insert coin." :)
 
Kev
Ok...thanks all, I have to run, it's supper time and it's my turn tonight :)
 
Rebecca, thanks for running this.
 
@badp you invoke the power of Cthulhu! Or just call Jon Skeet.
 
I'll be around as I munch on a sandwich, but then I'm firing up Xcode to go work on StackKit some more! :) (stackkit.com)
 
9:13 PM
Nobody calls Jon Skeet
 
@RebeccaChernoff Thanks!
 
When you need him, he calls you
That's why his answers sometimes have timestamps before the question
 
@MichaelMrozek next time go through imgur
 
@RebeccaChernoff thank you for hosting this. Having this meeting was a great idea!
 
@badp Bah; I don't have time for such things :)
 
9:14 PM
why are so many people here?
 
Now i have to go back and read the transcript.
 
WHAT IS HAPppening?
 
You just missed it
 
there's a lot to read! That was a solid hour of Q&A!
 
9:14 PM
<[^>]*>
 
Hour long "Town Chat" with candidates for the moderator election
 
@David19801 We just had a discussion with the moderator candidates.
 
@David19801 There was a chat with all the new moderator candidates.
 
18
Q: 2011 Moderator Elections - Town Hall Chat: 8pm UTC on the 30th

Rebecca ChernoffIn connection with the moderator elections, we will be holding a Town Hall Chat session with the candidates. This will be an opportunity for members of the community to pose questions to the candidates on the topic of moderation. Participation is completely voluntary. I am working with the can...

 
@David19801 There was cake. All your friends were there too. Well, except the companion cube. Because you murdered him.
 
9:14 PM
well, 8 of 10
 
Oh, and yeah, cake......... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... cake................
 
The cake is a lie.
 
@PaulDixon Ya. When there was a brief lull I assumed chat had broken.
 
cake? fuck. missed it.
 
the cake was delicios and moist
 
9:15 PM
Dammit, nobody gave me any cake
 
I should play portal again, it's been a while
@RebeccaChernoff This is your party; you were supposed to bring cake
 
Portal 2 soon!
 
I RAN THIS THING AND NOBODY GAVE ME CAKE?!?!
 
CAKE FOR THE CAKE GODDESS!
 
I wasn't aware of the cake. Could someone have it Fedex'd over?
 
9:16 PM
@RebeccaChernoff It's been sitting here, but I think you have to be in this timezone or eastward to get a piece.
 
oh blah at you
 
@PaulDixon It'll come complimentary with your internets. Check your email, it might be clogged.
 
ta da!
 
oh that looks delicious.
 
9:17 PM
shopped
looks fake
 
/me facepalms
 
@DaveDeLong There's no pleasing those guys
 
@DaveDeLong There's no sense crying over every mistake.
 
pie > cake
 
We'll just keep on voting till we run out of cake
 
9:18 PM
@Shog9 only for large values of pie
 
pie > cake ?
 
Then the voting is done and you ban a neat gal
 
Cake vs pie: Ice cream is better than both. :)
 
9:19 PM
 
Votes cast. That was hard all out of proportion.
 
I voted yesterday. This just confirmed I picked the right ones.
 
well, good luck to everyone, and i'll see you around
 
My cat just voted "More fish", I think this election is getting to his head
 
It's killing me that we can't know the tallies right now.
 
9:21 PM
@JustinjjnguyNelson Call CNN and get them to do exit polls and predictions.
 
maybe we should conduct an exit poll. You know how reliable those can be.
 
Upshot is that we can know the second the election is closed
 
Well, warm up your copies of OpenSTV then! [Windows], (math.stackexchange.com/election/download-openstv?os=pc), Mac, check your repos for Linux.
 
No "tallying up the votes" for hours on end
 
@waiwai933 Ha, I wish.
 
9:22 PM
This helped a lot for me... I had one top pick, but really didn't know who my 2nd and 3rd choices were gonna be.
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson I'm glad we can't see the tallies; now I can't keep checking to see where everyone is
 
@MichaelMrozek I checked primary results 10 times a day at least.
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson You, me, and Tim were really the only interesting part by the end of the primaries; we stayed really close the whole time
 
Also, seeing the tallies reinforces existing bias
 
ah good. Not just me then :)
 
9:23 PM
Distributing all my remaining stars
 
Many who don't know exactly who to vote on will vote for the guy with the most votes, now they can't do that, and have to vote based on their own opinions
 
@MichaelMrozek Yup. It was nerve racking. Tim caught up to me at the end.
@LasseVKarlsen True.
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson It would've been more exciting if we hadn't been fighting over 4th -- the spot that doesn't matter :)
 
@MichaelMrozek Ha, true.
 
3rd doesn't matter either does it? There's 2 moderator positions to be filled?
 
9:24 PM
@LasseVKarlsen Three
 
it increased at some point
 
Then I still have a chance I think :)
 
Yeah, that's pretty great news for you :D
 
9:24 PM
I looked on the primaries as being an ongoing opinion poll. (Though I only just realised this today)
 
But no matter, 3 days or so until we know, and the best people will win anyway, even if everybody is wrong and doesn't understand it's me :)
But now with so many people here from SO, I just must know. Anyone else have an Xbox 360 gamertag and play Black Ops, Borderlands, or BFBC2? :)
 
If nothing else, it was fun to see that no-one tested how a 3 digit negative vote would be rendered. Poor Rook :)
 
Hint: It's implied that if you say "Yes", you will have a new friend on xbox 360, so think carefully before you answer
 
@RebeccaChernoff remember when I told you were a beloved fellow at SO? Guess you took it too seriously! Look at where you're today ;-)
 
Rook shouldn't have been in the primaries, IMO
 
9:27 PM
@jweyrich (:
 
Maybe not, but 30 was plenty even with a few oddities
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson We were talking about how it might be a good idea to not allow negative-scores into the primaries, even if they're in the top 30
 
@MichaelMrozek Yeah. I'm not happy that Rook stole a spot from a potential serious candidate.
 
@MichaelMrozek get the first vote in and perma-kick?
 
@MichaelMrozek Probably will never be a problem for SO, I think (hope) enough people will always show up
 
9:28 PM
@LasseVKarlsen Well, for getting into the primaries it was just rep, and Rook had enough
(I meant top 30 before, sorry)
 
What negative scores in the nomination phase?
 
Ah, I was confused about the phases here, yes, OK.
 
Wait. Yeah, I'm mixing this all up. People with negative scores in the primary shouldn't make it into the election is what we were talking about before. In which case @LasseVKarlsen is right; that probably won't be a problem ever, hopefully the top 10 are positive scores
Rook did steal a spot in the primaries rather unnecessarily, but that was before there was voting
 
Yeah, but did he get any comments in the initial phase that indicated that his nomination would go through?
In other words, were he forewarned about the negative score and just chose not to withdraw?
 
There will always be a few jokers. There are in "real" political elections. Here, we got ten excellent people.
I'd worry more about the smaller sites.
 
9:32 PM
Yeah, agreed, the question needs a definite answer, what to do in those situations, I just hope we'll never have the problem on SO.
 
@LasseVKarlsen Jeff commented that if it was a joke nomination he should withdraw, and he replied that it was a serious nomination. I don't think it actually was, but it's his choice
 
I'm guessing there's no way to see the nominations of those that didn't make it to the final phase now?
 
Anyway, moot point, make some rules regarding that before next election :)
 
Rook will have raised the barrier to entry a little, but I don't think it will change the result. However, Tim might be an edge case - at 12.9K rep, not that far above the threshold, but he polled very well in the primaries.
 
9:33 PM
On SU and Programmers' where there were 11 and 12 nominations the voting seems to indicate that other users were able to spot the serious and not so serious candidates quite easily.
 
Yeah, OK, yes, I agree, that doesn't look like a serious nomination. Still, it's his right, as of this time.
 
We'll have to see if the primary votes translate to real votes though.
 
I hope everybody wakes up and votes me for presiden^H^H^H^H^H^H^H.... ewups....
 
Picking up on badp's comment:
51 mins ago, by badp
A diamond will be attached to everything you say, including questions, answers and comments. Everything you will do will be seen under a different light. How do you feel about that?
The diamond will be attached to things you said before you became a moderator - which could be interesting
 
That's a good point. But I've no problem with it, I think I've kept a clean sheet :)

(/me goes searching frantically.....)
 
9:38 PM
IRC tendencies never vanish.
 
heh
 
/me seconds someone's earlier suggestion for mod-driven extra sound effects. I think. Don't blame me later.
 
Some kind of 'light sabre being unleashed' sound would be good.
 
It isn't long before SO is being run by one of these things anyway:
Skynet, it seemed so distant, now I'm not so sure
 
damn thing looks like a skynet plane too
 
9:43 PM
Needs better aiming though, I'm not too worried
(runs and builds shelter)
Since people like us will be writing the software for Skynet anyway, it's not going to be much of a problem.
 
OCP Directive 4, sort of deal?
RoboCop (or OCP Crime Prevention Unit 001), formerly Detroit Police Officer Alex J. Murphy, is a fictional cyborg Detroit policeman and protagonist from the feature film series of the same name. The character begins as a human being who is killed in the line of duty by a vicious crime gang. Subsequently, Murphy is transformed into the cyborg entity by the megacorporation Omni Consumer Products. Since his 1987 film debut, the RoboCop character and franchise have been exercised through numerous entertainment media including multiple television series, comic books, video games, and action ...
 
What was that again? That was the big robot wasn't it?
 
Robocop was unable to put any senior member of OCP under arrest :)
 
I was thinking more in terms of "scrum deadlines" and so on :)
aka bugs
 
@ChrisF I've been a model citizen. No worries here.
 
9:47 PM
The robot invasion will be staved off by a timely bluescreen
 
@JustinjjnguyNelson I thought I had been on Programmers', but I occasionally see comments that I made before being made pro-tem mod and wince a little.
 
Then you've got until "Patch Tuesday" to go around hitting their inert bodies with hammers
 
Yup
Or we could just put the patch servers in Egypt
 
@ChrisF I think I've been good. Now I may go see.
 
So, was it as good for you as it was for me?
 
9:56 PM
@AdamDavis ?
 
Yes?
 
@adamda What did you mean by: "So, was it as good for you as it was for me?"
 

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