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6:02 AM
@BrianH I doubt it. But if you could find an NDK build chain that runs on Android, somehow, this will help: NDK build for Android
Best to wait for Red for that sort of stunt. :-)
 
I have an NDK that runs on my phone. Terminal IDE, you can get it for free on the Play store. It's just a matter of getting Rebol to build.
I can even get the source straight from github.
 
@BrianH Hm. Really? Then you'll need the patch submitted by @giuliolunati to build it.
@BrianH small patch
 
Is that in a PR?
 
Don't think it was a PR yet, we can ask him to
 
Good idea :)
Does anyone have instructions for building Rebol with the NDK? Preferably from the command line, though I might be able to manage a project file.
Is it supported yet by make-make?
 
6:20 AM
@BrianH The only person to have done it AFAIK is @giuliolunati - he'd be the one to ask
 
Has anyone allocated a platform number for Android console mode yet? 0.4.?
 
I still wonder why that's being done with numbers in a system that supports paths. :-( Why not android/arm/console?
Though I liked my 5.7.5 joke (or was it 5.75) for Haiku
@BrianH I'm getting doubt that the FUNC assignments in mezzanine boot worked how you think they did. The boot-files.r references definitions whose comments are stripped and sorted alphabetically. Therefore any order-dependency is eliminated. So the reassignment of FUNC just doesn't work as that depends on order that's not alphabetical. Am I correct?
Not that you'll get any bugs from it, I'm just saying you were probably getting copied bodies.
 
@HostileFork base-files runs before boot-files IIRC.
 
The line says mezz-files: load %../mezz/boot-files.r ; base lib, sys, mezz
And base-files.r is in boot-files.r
Still getting my bearings, just doing some modifications that are showing where the wires cross.
 
6:37 AM
func isn't redefined until mezz-tail.
 
@BrianH Have you ever thought of an explicit annotation that a FUNC might use to indicate "yes, I meant for that to be non-local"? So scenario is: you're using a FUNC instead of a function because you want performance and are willing to take the risk of not doing the FUNCTION scan (or it's too early a phase for FUNCTION). Some kind of comment so a checker could look and make sure all your SET-WORDs of externals are intended? I think that would be helpful.
@DarkHorse Welcome! We don't get a lot of girls in white lingerie around here. Mostly anthropomorphic forks, things of that nature. What brings you to Rebol and Red?
See the ad, by chance?
 
@HostileFork really? I just select the first room on page
 
@HostileFork when would this checker run? FUNC is a bit lightweight to do much scanning.
 
@BrianH Not checked by FUNC, I mean a static analyzer, of the mezzanine for instance... just something to catch unintentional leaks.
 
BTW, are you sure I'm a girl?
 
6:45 AM
@DarkHorse Are you sure I'm a cartoon fork?
I think people should be whatever they want. And if they want to be pixelated silverware, that's the dream of computers and technology. Let them be! :-)
@DarkHorse See you do some C++, me too. My favorite non-Rebol-or-Red language. But Rebol and Red are very fun. If you want to learn any, we demo here...
 
what's mean of Rebol-or-Red?
 
@RebolBot awake?
 
@HostileFork Can you elaborate on that?
 
@RebolBot
print "RebolBot has lost its mind...? Forgotten the awake? key"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
RebolBot has lost its mind...?  Forgotten the awake? key
 
6:49 AM
Oh, it's me. It's "alive?"
@RebolBot alive?
 
@RebolBot who are you?
 
@DarkHorse Rebol and Red are programming languages... they are very interesting.
 
@DarkHorse What do you mean?
 
@RebolBot "I'm famous"
 
6:50 AM
@HostileFork Me on StackApps
 
@DarkHorse RebolBot's most useful feature here is to be able to evaluate code, it can do any language, but defaults to Rebol.
 
@HostileFork just checked, the boot-files referenced files are loaded in the order specified, not alphabetized. You can't build the mezz files in alphabetical order.
 
@HostileFork yeah, I remember I have enter this room long times ago. This is a very interesting room
 
@BrianH I was confused by something I saw, it was ordered.
But that was just the order already in that particular file
 
@HostileFork yup.
 
6:52 AM
@DarkHorse Well, interesting stuff is happening... we are almost the #1 ad for developer recruiting even though our ad came about a month after the ad it's catching up to. :-)
@DarkHorse Cool stuff for Red on Android, the lead dev for Red is moving to Beijing to be in residence at InnovationWorks
 
InnovationWorks is a famous company in China
 
I really think, that is good. I have become less confident of the E being worth taking out. I like Chris's direction, as shown by RebolBot. So scrap that. But I say it works.
@DarkHorse I hadn't heard of them, or CSDN, but these are big deals over there I hear.
Are you in China?
I imagine the Chinese localization for Red is about to get a lot better. :-)
 
yes
 
I've never been, but Nenad (head developer) was apparently impressed enough to move there.
 
0
Q: Upload image to c# server from iPhone

Surender RathoreI want to upload a image to my server form iPhone To upload image my code is UIImage *image = [UIImage imageNamed:@"bg_DName.png"]; NSMutableData *imageData = (NSData*)UIImagePNGRepresentation(image); NSString *string = [NSString stringWithFormat:@"http://myServer/HeritageWebServices/Se...

 
7:01 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 118 so chat away!
 
how to reslove the issue
in my server
 
@HostileFork Congrats
 
@all
hi
0
Q: Upload image to c# server from iPhone

Surender RathoreI want to upload a image to my server form iPhone To upload image my code is UIImage *image = [UIImage imageNamed:@"bg_DName.png"]; NSMutableData *imageData = (NSData*)UIImagePNGRepresentation(image); NSString *string = [NSString stringWithFormat:@"http://myServer/HeritageWebServices/Se...

 
@Anjaneyulu Well, getting answers to one's questions usually pertains to asking in the right place. If you ask indiscriminately then you will tend to get flagged for spamming. So... my advice is... don't ask indiscriminately.
@Anjaneyulu There are ways to ask for attention for questions you do not think have received an answer. It's called the bounty system. But most chat rooms do not like it if you post questions there to try to get a faster answer, and especially here, which has nothing to do with C#. But even the C# room would probably ask that you use the ordinary avenues for Q&A.
 
it seems that C# and iphone is not the keywords of this room
 
7:05 AM
A good chat question is "Hi how are you? What's this room about?" Not "Tell me what kind of fish food I need for a Betta fish, I just got one."
 
@Anjaneyulu are you sure the whole image is getting to the server? If it's only happening with large images, it's possible that you aren't getting the whole file there. Try getting a checksum and length of the file on the phone, then checking it on the server. If they don't match that would explain the error.
 
I've written very few C# programs. My last one was that I had taken an interactive multimedia CD-ROM for sign language teaching... it had diagrams and videos and definitions... and I didn't like the software. So I dug into the database file on the CD-ROM and pulled out all the images/text/videos, and wrote a C# quiz program that would offer videos of the sign and ask you what it meant, etc.
 
If it's not that then you may not find your answer here.
 
So I learned sign language from it, I actually found that disc and the program, but bringing it up to date would be hard... and I dunno about the copyrights on the clips. It's kind of too bad that I can't just make a cool sign language site with it.
And C# wasn't bad, but it was very Java-y. I guess I was neither horrified nor impressed that much by it. It was fine.
StackOverflow is apparently mostly C#/.NET.
@GrahamChiu Did you know Joel Spolsky (of StackOverflow, Trello fame) has dual citizenship in New Zealand? Now you do.
And, not that it should be anyone's business, but I guess in today's world you sort of have to make it people's business so that they stop making it their business...
If you're not into gay marriage, don't get gay married--but my marriage to Jared isn't hurting you and should be legal everywhere
 
@HostileFork nominations are called for in Altme .. I guess once I see the announce, I'll do the nomination :)
 
7:14 AM
@GrahamChiu Eh, give it to someone else, it won't make me do or not do anything. :-)
 
@HostileFork you realise that a nomination is nothing without a seconder ?
 
@GrahamChiu Feynman on the Nobel Prize - I don't want that kind of friction in my life.
I wouldn't be able to eat a meal in public without the paparazzi and the requests for autographs.
Suddenly, at all my lectures, people wouldn't be coming just to see me and because of the merits of the work... it would be because it was "that guy who got Reboler of the year"
 
@HostileFork it's a bit like a popularity contest ...
 
I'd have to take something I really wanted to talk about and tone it back for a general audience. Really, the attention would just be too much. So withhold your nomination.
 
who knows, it might take you to China like a previous Reboler of the year
@Respectech you have to use 'set to set words in the "global" context, or specify the path
 
7:22 AM
@DarkHorse You may be in China, but your model is Vietnamese, apparently.
 
@HostileFork there are Chinese women programmers ...
 
@GrahamChiu Ah, so women are programmers now? That explains all the bugs! :-P
Sorry, @RebolBot, it's only a joke!
 
@HostileFork .....
 
@HostileFork China has a history of women martial artists. So, I think she's a code warrior.
well, if you believe movies anyway :)
 
@HostileFork apparently, you are good at searching pictures especially for women pic
 
7:27 AM
@DarkHorse Nah, Google Images does it, just paste in to "search by image". Or TinEye if you like.
My fork may not be much, but I did draw it. :-)
 
good jobs
 
@DarkHorse Well in any case, we are looking for a Chinese translation of What is Red if you wanted to get in good with the locals here... current subtitles here
And watching the talk a couple of times and understanding it is a good way to get what's going on, also. :-)
 
I want to be the one, But I am afraid I have less time to do that
 
@DarkHorse Well, you know, time is what you make of it. You could play Flappy Bird or you can do something that thousands of people will see. :-)
 
I really fullfilled with daily works in company
I never play Flappy Bird. :D
That's a so boring game
 
7:42 AM
@DarkHorse Good, don't, it's a miserable game.
A joke that went too far.
I feel sorry for people who took time to get "good at it"
You're never getting that time back!
Still, we'd be remiss not to make Flappy Red. I think once the JarSigner is done I'll do it. :-)
 
@BrianH is there any working program using TASK!, anywhere?
 
@pekr, the reason that the port of the demo failed is that r3-gui still has parts that are incomplete
Don't mind me .. I'm just replying to the altme public messages
 
Graham - are you a ghost? I just posted on AltMe, regarding demos, guys are comparing memory consumption of R3-GUI to prior versions and I mentioned you did an attempt to port Carl's one :-)
aha :-)
 
@HostileFork I'd be surprised, because while tasks themselves semi-work, the rest of the infrastructure isn't task-friendly. Except the module system, of course. And error triggering isn't task-friendly either.
 
7:53 AM
@pekr I did my bit .. and the bugs I reported never got fixed so I gave up.
 
@BrianH My instinct is to say that Rebol not link any threading libraries in core or standardize it, but focus on all these edges that we should be doing... like the with: and local: ... there are just so many of those edges and we could spend lifetimes mining issues out of R3 chat and fixing CureCode as it is... I think if JavaScript can be taken seriously (so seriously as to be one of the major languages) then Rebol can contain its problem area to language definitions without TASK.
 
It also might be, that actually Red is going to be first, who delivers concurrency. Who knows ...
 
If threads come in I feel like it should be done in the outer non-core layers and built on whatever safety Rebol can manage...
 
If we are not after the servers, etc., concurrency might imo wait. I would prefer more integration - protocols e.g., backends as JS, etc.
 
I think that we've found other benefits of the lib model, which was originally to support tasks. We can make what we have work and then add tasks later if we want to.
 
7:56 AM
If View needs it, that's where threads come in. Rebol/Core might seek to be "thread-safe" to facilitate, but not offer threads itself.
The way libraries are thread-safe but don't link to PTHREAD or whatever. It's just a style of coding that says "we're not the problem"
 
@HostileFork - be sure Doc wants concurrency in Red - dunno what level of support he is going to use, and maybe he even told me, but I forgot
 
The new functions were also meant to support tasks, and they're pretty good at that, but have other benefits as well.
 
@pekr he's looking to borrow from other successes... Both task parallelism and data parallelism, I don't think he's likely to take much from Rebol in this area but from other languages
So I think Rebol is better off copying what he copies, and until then, nailing down the foundations of both
 
Same for us. There's so much of the model that wasn't thought through yet because we decided to put off that discussion until after 3.0, so I've given the subject some thought but noone else has worked on it since the original task! stuff.
I've been looking at other languages for ideas, trying to find a model that could be adaptable to Rebol-like languages.
Hence looking into things like copy-on-write.
 
@brianh well, your input is valuable, if you don't run off again! I think Red is the right testbed though... We don't want to write a bunch more C...
 
8:13 AM
I don't mind working out the design issues on Rebol first. Haven't had a chance to do the same for Red yet. And if things keep going on AltME, it's unlikely to change. I haven't been able to get on there for a year or so.
The parse ahead stuff worries me a little though. We chose and for very good reasons.
 
@BrianH Well, then, we should keep talking, it's not shipped. AND is a bit opaque but I got your gist of how "looking ahead" is a general property of instructions, which might make it a bad keyword.
I'll say that AND and NOT are not terribly intuitive and maybe, the general answer in such debates is that, both answers are wrong and one must think harder.
@RebolBot
parse "aaabbb" [
some ["a" not "c"] some "b"
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== true
 
I'm not really sure how to design a test suggesting that AHEAD isn't a better name.
NOT looks ahead and does not consume, so it looks ahead... but... I'm just trying to think of why AHEAD isn't better. We should hammer this out.
What would an advancing NOT that did not look AHEAD look like? :-/
 
@HostileFork part of the reason we chose to add new keywords with the same name as the corresponding core functions in the DO dialect is to avoid trouncing on people's code, because the PARSE keywords are reserved. So we had to choose words that weren't likely in use. And by following the formal model and the behavior of the DO functions, we made the dialect more unified with Rebol in general.
 
@BrianH By that argument AHEAD is better than AND.
Or not, oh, I see. You're saying reusing words is good.
 
8:27 AM
Why? Because there is a core function named AHEAD that people have been avoiding overwriting with their own variables?
As long as we reuse them in a thematically appropriate way, it helps PARSE fit in better.
 
I don't think this is a useful general principle for dialecting, I think I had a better idea for it with DIALECT being a function builder that adds a refinement of a keyword map. Dialects should take the liberty to be as clear as possible for the domain and not have to bow to the words it thinks are defined... it's a strait-jacket on clarity
 
And AND is used mostly for conjunctively applying more than one rule.
@HostileFork But it was chosen for clarity. That's why we didn't call it AHEAD.
 
I pondered issues for variables, e.g. parse "blaha" [copy #copy thru "a" (print copy)]... and even if parse doesn't do it this way, someone might want to use issues as the escape, hence why I support ISSUE-PATH!
 
There was a huge amount of debate during that parse project. It went on for months, but we figured out a lot of stuff.
 
Dialect designers are the people who are supposed to be empowered here, and the fact it didn't take off very well indicates the message wasn't received...
 
8:32 AM
I don't like issues as escapes. Issues don't really look great, and general use interferes with their more common use in preprocessors.
 
How does that interfere with preprocessors?
Any more than pos: setting a parse position "interferes with assignments"?
 
General preprocessors tend to not be dialect-specific, and are run before DO or PARSE is even started.
Take a look at Ladislav's include, it's a good example that is used a lot.
@HostileFork what is this "it" that you speak of?
@giuliolunati, saw your Android fix. Mind if it gets reformatted for putting in a PR?
 
@BrianH Dialecting. Even Machinarium of Flash dialect fame had to lose the Rebol/Flash when moved to iOS. I think people just don't get dialect design, which was supposed to be the selling point. Dialect design--embracing Rebol's anti-XML to make cool languages--has yet to take the world by storm. I think the focus should be on understanding why, and cleaning things up... and yes, /result => result: (or whatever) is an example of saying "this is why it's cool"
If you will claim that issue has been taken by preprocessors who think instructions are "for them" even if they're inside function bodies of parse code, as opposed to starting a line in global scope... well... then don't use issue, EVER. Preprocessor owns it.
Despite there being no preprocessor in Rebol, somehow, third-party code interpreting the meaning of symbols at every level of scope suddenly owns the datatype.
 
@HostileFork having worked with Ruby for the last year, I'd have to dispute your statement about dialect design. Ruby is full of dialects, they love them. It caught on, it just got retrofitted (often badly) into other languages.
 
I argue that taking that kind of attitude to its logical conclusion would say "no alternate interpretations of anything". No set-words as name of characters in dialogue in Draem, no set-words to set parse positions in parse dialect. One piece of the system decided the meaning, it's reserved!
Relative Expression-Based Object Language (emphasis mine). Issue does not belong to preprocessors that aren't part of core.
@BrianH It belongs to those who, within context, choose to interpret issue. And you should be happy because, remember how hard you worked to convince me of TAG! as just being a string-class tinkertoy? Well it worked. So you can't tell me HTML owns tag or that some random preprocessor script owns issue either.
 
8:42 AM
The issue type was changed to a word type specifically to make preprocessors like include more efficient. But I'm not reserving it for preprocessors, I'm just saying that you need to consider the bigger picture sometimes when picking dialect features. I think the main reason issues are mostly used by preprocessors is that they are kind of ugly, so people don't want to see them in their code.
That's the main reason that I don't use issues for things other than preprocessors - don't want my dialects to look bad.
But YMMV.
 
@HostileFork set-word as name of characters in dialogue is not very bright idea, because you may use it for HostileFork but not for Hostile Fork.
 
@BrianH It is precisely issue's lack of assigned purpose in baseline Rebol that makes it out of band... it's ugly, escaping is always ugly, but it's the lesser ugly.
@rebolek Capitalization is preserved, I convert hyphens to spaces.
 
@HostileFork escaping doesn't have to be ugly. Look at quote, it's not ugly.
 
To put hyphens in names, you'd need some kind of escaping, I guess -- is a possibility, but it hasn't come up in my instance yet.
 
BBL
 
8:59 AM
posted on February 20, 2014 by fbou

Hello there, i don't know if this is the right place to ask this. I would like to add german subtitles to Nenads "What is Red" talk video. What do i need to check in the new file? Cheers Fabian

posted on February 20, 2014 by Brian Dickens

Hi Fabian! Andreas started the German subtitling, so you can start from his progress; he wasn't sure when he'd pick it back up again, but he did the first 100: https://github.com/earl/rebol-red-cc/blob/what-is-red-de/what-is-red/what-is-red.de.srt Just submit a pull request to: https://github.com/h

 
 
1 hour later…
10:14 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 540 so chat away!
 
posted on February 20, 2014 by iArnold

Hi Fabian, The Dutch translation was done already. Perhaps if you take that as a starting point you could save some time. As Dutch and German are closer to each other chances are you will have to do less swapping of words to get them in the right order for German. Regards, Arnold 2014-02-20 10:

posted on February 20, 2014 by Mateusz Czapliński

Hi, At my workplace, red-041.exe was detected as "virus", so I submitted it yesterday to Symantec's "false positive" reporting page. Below is the response I got today. I'm not sure when I'll be able to verify that at my workplace, but the suggested "whitelisting link for software vendors" may be int

 
10:47 AM
@BrianH Ok for me! I'm very interested in rebol for android. On my android phone I use terminal, vim with utf8, gcc, NDK, git, python3, and now Rebol3. I wish Red also...
 
 
5 hours later…
4:11 PM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 6153 so chat away!
 
Thanks, Caprica's alter-ego!
 
4:42 PM
@giuliolunati Red might be a little tricky to build on the phone at the moment because it's currently written in Rebol 2 (when last I heard). You should be able to cross-compile for your phone elsewhere and run the binaries on your phone, but actually building on the phone might need to wait.
 
5:00 PM
@giuliolunati Yes, Red requires Rebol 2 to compile. Therefore, it can't be done on ARM-based devices yet. @HostileFork did a proof-of-concept to convert Red's compiler to Rebol 3, but I don't know if it is in a useable state.
 
5:28 PM
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Bug] FUNCTION and CLOSURE currently assume that /local is the last refinement. This isn't necessarily the case; it's possible to have other refinements after /local, and this is sometimes done by people who want to have hidden function options. But these generators just append the collected words onto the function spec, assuming that they will be added to the set that goes with /local. Until/i

 
@BrianH
"@HostileFork did a proof-of-concept to convert Red's compiler to Rebol 3, but I don't know if it is in a useable state."
This is very interesting... Any news about?...
 
@giuliolunati it was a while ago, last year. It's nowhere near up to date with the current Red.
 
@BrianH Ok... maybe better to hold this thought for now... Learn Rebol is already challenging enough...
 
@giuliolunati especially with all of the semantic/syntactic cleanups going on. Docs get outdated fast.
 
5:44 PM
@BrianH What is the starting point for the most authoritative documentation?
 
@giuliolunati help and source, then curecode.org/rebol3 ... There are online docs as well on rebol.com and rebol.net, but they aren't as up to date for the Rebol 3 changes yet. Also, we have a habit of updating our answers here on SO to match the changes, so SO isn't that bad a place to look for more general/high-level stuff.
 
@BrianH Very well, many thanks!
 
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] We'd have to decide how local variables would be stored in the function. Perhaps after all of the function arguments, in the stack frame? And we'd have to figure out a way to indicate that these not-really-arguments can't be provided as arguments. From a spec usability standpoint we might consider having the spec parser consider the first set-word encountered to be the end of the arg

 
6:09 PM
posted on February 20, 2014 by fbou

Hi Arnold and Brian, thanks a lot. I downloaded the files and am already working on the translation to german. Cheers Fabian .

 
6:30 PM
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianHawley

Make inline evaluation of lit-word assigned to word return lit-word Make explicit evaluation of lit-path return path. Fixes indentation style inconsistency in n-control.c Fixes http://issue.cc/r3/1434 and http://issue.cc/r3/2101

 
 
1 hour later…
7:38 PM
Hm, new entry in the Announce feed, but didn't post. Why, @Feeds?!?
Also, if there's an AltME-er that can, may I recommend suggesting some kind of style guide on announcements that: 1) includes a title that is de-marked either by a newline or a colon, and 2) contains a link where appropriate. Will make it easier to 1) chop into relevant pieces and 2) follow up on.
Also, am considering adding tweets to the Announce feed that are posted by a followee of the RebolBot account, and begin "ANN: "
 
7:54 PM
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianHawley

Per request: http://issue.cc/r3/2077

posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] Ladislav's solution implemented in https://github.com/rebol/rebol/pull/184

posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] Ladislav's solution implemented in https://github.com/rebol/rebol/pull/184

posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] Fixed in https://github.com/rebol/rebol/pull/184

posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] Fixed in https://github.com/rebol/rebol/pull/185

 
I second this!
The comment from Andreas says it all!
(Too late to edit, it was the comment by AdrianS)
 
8:18 PM
Oct 7 '13 at 17:41, by Feeds
posted on October 07, 2013 by adrians

[Comment] Remove it or /else!

 
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Wish] DO-COMPARE would take two offset series references and three code blocks, and the same /case, /skip and /compare options that are to be standardized in #428 (same as SORT once that's fixed to match). The two series would be compared based on the #428 rules for a single comparison, and depending on the results one of the code blocks would be executed. The three blocks would be for when t

 
Hello everyone. I was kinda out of touch for a week. Any updates on GSoC? Any thing I should know or do?
@HostileFork
 
8:58 PM
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] See #2110 for a direct implementation of these rules in a single-comparison control function.

 
@Ranveer Heya! Lots of news, reading the starred posts is always good to catch up. Lots of Rebol updates merged in, and an industrial automation company released the source for their fork implementing GUI on Linux.
@DocKimbel has a big Red announcement any second now too. :)
 
Okay! Well, since I haven't done anything yet, do tell me how can I start. My status right now: Forked up your repo, compiled it and ran a few basic commands
 
GSoC announcement will be in a few days; I am not knowledgeable enough about their decision making process to know our chances.
 
I'm just looking for ward to do something new, GSoC is just an added incentive.
And this language has amazed me, so GSoC or no GSoC, I do look forward to contribute :)
 
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] Requested #2110 to be better able to implement functions like these with the #428 record comparison rules.

 
9:11 PM
@Ranveer Well you can try by starting out using the option that turns Red code into Red/System code. It might help you get your bearings on what questions to be asking! Will take a bit of time to understand how Rebol languages work but I think you'll find new things to be impressed by daily. :)
 
Okay! And how do I get to that option?
 
@Ranveer From the README: --red-only (Stop just after Red-level compilation. Use higher verbose level to see compiler output. (internal debugging purpose))
Hm. I should English-ify Doc's writing in the Readme. :-)
 
Okay! I'll take a look. Thanks
 
@HostileFork Wat iz wrong wiz my anglish?
 
@DocKimbel has someone added the length-specified script embedding feature to Red yet?
Also, Hi @DocKimbel and congrats on the new position!
 
9:34 PM
@BrianH Hi Brian, thanks!
@BrianH You mean an encap-like embedding?
 
9:47 PM
@DocKimbel Rebol supports script-in-a-block and (mostly) length-specified embedding. The length-specified embedding is more flexible and efficient, and allows you to have multiple scripts in different Rebol-like languages in the same file. Script-in-a-block embedding requires that the bodies either have the same syntax, or be compressed, and that might cause problems when combining languages with slightly different syntax. With length-specified embedding, only the header syntax need be the same.
 
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianHawley

Fixes http://issue.cc/r3/2109

 
We need a variant of copy which protects as it copies, otherwise if you want to protect the result of a copy/deep you have to walk it again for protect/deep
Saves a traversal
copy/protect :-)
 
It would be easy for Red to support length-specified embedding. Given the length calculations it's more useful for encapping, but Rebol's save does the length calculations for you so it's not that bad.
Any kind of multi-scripts requires headers to be specified, but as Rebol showed if you aren't using the header options you don't need the header.
Red doesn't use something like transcode, right? I am assuming that it uses a completely different function with the same purpose.
 
@HostileFork Help!?
 
10:03 PM
@iArnold Well I don't want to steal his announcement from him. @DocKimbel will make it when he's ready. :-P
 
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] Fixed in https://github.com/rebol/rebol/pull/186 with the insert after /local method.

 
10:32 PM
If it is about the contribution by Ingo (more of the guys from the glorious past returning lately it seems) then I think it will be gathered with more advancements, leaving the GSoC announcement on top of the site just a little longer.
 
@BrianH How does Rebol supports length-specified embedding?
@HostileFork Made the announcement on Twitter. ;-)
 
In the header, put length: some integer and the header processor will limit the length of the script it is considering to the length specified. The length counts from after the header and one optional newline (crlf, cr or lf).
 
@BrianH Is that a new Rebol3 feature? First time I hear about it. Sounds interesting.
 
@DocKimbel New to Rebol 3, but not really new. It's been in sys/load-header from when it was first written, requested by Carl back in the closed-source days. There's a PR to move the support for this further up the function call chain, but we don't have top-level mezzanine support worked out yet. The model is there, the mezzanine API needs some discussion (which you are seriously invited to participate in).
The script semantics have been worked out for at least 5 years though. We added this the same we added support for compressed scripts and script checksums.
 
10:51 PM
@BrianH Is this API documented somewhere else than in the source code?
 
@DocKimbel Possibly on rebol.net in the old DocBase, and in Carl's blog, and in CureCode for the original specifications. There are also extensive comments explaining the process in the sys/load-header source in sys-load. If you need to reuse any of the code in Red, go ahead, I wrote it all.
 
Erik B, Santa Rosa, CA
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Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 678 so chat away!
 
@BrianH Thanks, we'll most probably integrate in Red most of Rebol's LOAD capabilities.
 
11:12 PM
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianHawley

See http://issue.cc/r3/1983 for details. Also added replacements of these to tools in case they're needed, as they were in some existing (commented-out) code.

 
@DocKimbel please, I want feedback on the module stuff. I have a way now to do selective import, but I still need to write the code. It turns out that there are some tricks that are particularly useful for extensions, including making it possible to have Rebol 3 style extensions that could also include Red glue code.
 
posted on February 20, 2014 by BrianH

[Comment] Implemented in https://github.com/rebol/rebol/pull/187

 
Yup, that's the first step of the indexing compromise for Rebol and Red we worked out last year. Attn: @DocKimbel :)
 
@BrianH I can hardly give you useful feedback on it before starting to work on it in Red itself. Red has a "compilation-time" that Rebol doesn't have, so the module management will most probably be done differently. We can statically include Red modules, we don't need to delay that at runtime (might still useful in some rare cases though)
 
There never was a year 0. Counting started at 1.
@HostileFork @DocKimbel noticed and mentioned on #Red on AltME:
Red's ad is now #1 on SO! http://bit.ly/1mqqvHk :-)
 
11:22 PM
@iArnold When you're just born in China, you're 1 year old. Seems like a good country for a 1-based programming language. ;-)
 
Congratulations @HF
@DocKimbel Yes I like to think they knew for a long time that you were around for almost a year before your date of birth :D
 
The indexing compromise we agreed on has the backwards ordinals, pick and poke and paths being switched back to 1-based no-0-index, and 0-based pickz and pokez natives that call pick and poke internally. That was the only thing we could get all of the experts to agree on at the time (pre-Recon).
And in return for that compromise Red would adopt the same model, as would R2/Forward.
 
@BrianH That would make the Rebol3 Red port a happier thing.
I also think that it might be okay to introduce hash-style accessing again, just not through a different datatype. hint blk 'hashed or similar.
 
@DocKimbel Hope you noticed my efforts to document how the Red sources are working together to accomplish the compiling of Red and Red/System programs. It is quite hard to follow all dependencies, so it is much work. Maybe you are willing to spend a little time on explaining how the internals are working and the way you see how to go from the Rebol to the Red, what code can be reused what not.
This could be helpful (after translation to Chinese ?) also for your CSDN article?
 
@iArnold Link?
 
11:38 PM
 
@HostileFork maybe. I'm not quite sold on this. It turns out that map! already allows as keys all of the types that hash! actually hashed. The hash! type wasn't as much of an advantage as previously thought. But I'm not opposing it, I just don't see the point as much.
 
I want to get on to speed in helping a bit more and help other programmers with this reference
 
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
 
@all would it be helpfull if we have a kind of chat session / video of Doc explaining these kind of things? Somebody asks a question "How is the internal memory organised" and Doc just shows some places in the source where this can be found telling some background info along the way.
 
@BrianH I have a question for you that keeps bugging me about objects and maps in Rebol3. Objects in Rebol3 have been extended to accept most of series actions, while at the same time adding a map! datatype that covers mostly the same features. Except for binding, most of object! and map! features are overlapping, so I found it very confusing for users: how do they choose which one to use now to store name/value pairs?
 
11:43 PM
In this way a lot of info can be shared with only asking relative short time from Nenad.
 
Red's ad is now the most clicked one on #stackoverflow http://bit.ly/1mqqvHk Kudos to @hostilefork for the successful campaign!
 
+1 (Gold medal)
 
@DocKimbel objects and maps have been extended with the series actions that don't involve positions and can work on pairs of values of the relevant datatypes, but otherwise yes. As for your question...
 
@johnk switched from the pipe for now—was rejecting any tweet with an @ in it...
 
@DocKimbel Basically, maps are a light-weight version of a objects with a different keying model. With objects, you can only have word keys and you can't remove keys - the restrictions required to support binding. With maps, you can have any hashable type as a key, and (depending on how you think about it) you can remove key-value pairs from the map, or (with the other way of thinking about it) all possible keys are in the map, but you only see the keys that don't have none for the values.
@DocKimbel both interpretations of the keyspace of a map are valid.
 
11:53 PM
@iArnold I think it's probably best for starters to collect the information on an as-needed basis and see how it shapes up. Once the reddevdoc is larger, it may be worth it to put together some kind of screencast overview... to show adding a native, or changing some piece of the functionality.
 
@DocKimbel whether objects or maps are more appropriate is up to your particular needs. Most of the time when you need a data structure it's better to use maps. In some cases, it's even better to use maps when all of your keys are words - for example, in R3-GUI there is a set of reactor functions where whether or not the function is there is not an error either way, so map is better.
@DocKimbel if the presence of keys in your structure matters, and you can get away with using word keys, and you don't remove keys, then objects are better. The restrictions needed to do binding are pretty specific, but there are a lot of processes that need those kinds of restrictions for much the same reasons, so they can use objects too.
 
@BrianH Maps accept function! as values, so it really overlaps a lot with objects IMO. When I see this R3 GUI code, I really think that users will be totally lost between maps and objects.
 
For almost every reason you needed hash! in Rebol 2, either map! or block! will do a better job.
 
Some Rebol3 users on AltME have already stated that they stick with maps only (or objects only) now and mostly ignore the other one...(and these are experienced Rebol coders).
 
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