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12:04 AM
@www139 Greetings, young programmer... :-) Well, if you want my personal opinion, some of the most fascinating aspects of the language are the non-GUI bits.
Right now, the most aggressive GUI development angle is being pursued by Red. You will find their chat room here: gitter.im/red/red
But I'd suggest getting a firm grounding in "what it's all about" first.
@www139 Did you happen to read this bit on definitional scoping?
>> until [()]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-return.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: block did not return a value
** Where: until
** Near: until [()]
 
@rgchris If continue is the same as continue/with (), and what it means is "behave as if the body completed with unset"... what should until [... continue ...] do?
In the balance of things, I would think that the logical thing for continue to do would be to work (and not report an error). This leads me to think that maybe unsets should be tolerated by until, and considered non-terminating.
red> until [()]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
 
Hm, red considers it a success, because it considers unsets to be non-conditionally false. In that case, CONTINUE would end the loop. Doesn't sound right.
 
How does CONTINUE behave elsewhere?
 
12:12 AM
Evaluation on Rebol3 Porting Guide ("Ren/C" branch)
Instead of BREAK/RETURN, Ren/C has BREAK/WITH. Though it is largely the same for most practical purposes, it is different in terms of interaction with MAP-EACH (and a parallel behavior difference...
The intersection of points suggests to me that UNTIL should likely be willing to call unset "no vote", and keep looping.
UNTIL is strange because it has merged the concerns of a loop body with that of a loop condition.
I think CONTINUE and the regularity suggests the opt-out-of-condition being the right compromise, which is (apparently) a third choice from R3-Alpha and Red.
Technically there are degrees of freedom to choose any behavior, I just like having nice rules like "continue/with will do the same thing in the loop as if the body ended with that value. The default /with is unset"
 
I don't think I fully grasp CONTINUE as I'd expect that continuing the loop is implied in the name. until [continue/with false ...] would be an infinite loop.
Or until [continue/with true ...] for that matter.
 
Continuing the loop but checking its loop condition is implied.
The problem with until, as I said, is that the loop body is the condition.
Anyway, it's a weird construct. It only has continue and break really.
Well, I guess break/with
I agree that CONTINUE with no refinements should obviously keep running the loop.
None of the other loop constructs make it such that the /WITH you pass will result in the loop ending as a consequence, because the /WITH is a body result... not something the condition sees.
I guess that's what it should do. If you CONTINUE/WITH it should error and say "use BREAK/WITH instead if you're using UNTIL"
Having UNTIL error on an unset is probably useful as a sanity check.
CONTINUE/WITH should only be used in constructs where the body is distinct from the breaking condition.
 
12:40 AM
@rgchris The rebol.info being down is the reason PRs aren't showing up I take it?
 
Yep.
 
Too bad, lots of fancy things going on...
 
Should be back soon.
 
For better or worse, or wiser or dumber, I am still on my stretch goal of running on empirical code 2x speed of R3-Alpha. I do not think this is impossible.
Tricky, just not impossible.
But I'm not just doing that, it's just something I'm doing as I go along on features that I'd planned.
I probably will not be able to get there unless I hack up the series nodes like I suggested, but that will be also the death of REFINEMENT!
to path! [#[_] foo] => /foo
>> three-path: append quote /foo 'bar
== /foo/bar

>> length three-path
== 3

>> type-of first three-path
== none!
To anyone who is terribly attached to refinements not having evaluator behavior, I have bad news...but also good news.
The good news is that it dovetails in the solution to the unsolved problem of how object copies work, and the "this->" equivalent. Which means a large unsolved terrible catastrophe goes away... e.g. how to deal with rebinding the bodies of methods when you copy an object. You don't.
The bad news is that /foo is like this->foo
e.g. refinements (paths starting with a NONE!) are "live", not dead.
It's not really bad news.
I've also mused if conditional refinements should be a thing. e.g. foo: func [x /something y /something/else] [...] where you can't use /else unless you use /something. So it would check for you.
 
@HostileFork No, I hadn't read that Stackoverflow answer. I started learning Rebol 3 about a week ago. Up until this point, I have been doing web development. Now that I have been doing that for a few years, I am moving on to software development. My internship at a local tech shop just started a week ago which is why I am learning Rebol. The mentor I have suggested it as a good language to learn because he uses it all the time.
 
12:55 AM
@www139 Interesting, are you in Ukiah? (Respectech has a tech shop, so that's who I'd guess...)
Rebol walks a strange line between thought experiment and practicality.
 
@HostileFork I just finished my internship for today so I am on my way home in the car [shortly] so I will message with you more when I arrive home ;) Thank you.
@HostileFork Yes ;)
 
1:36 AM
@RebolBot
print {Is this a demonstration of what you are calling a catastrophe @HostileFork:}
z: copy zz: object [a: 1 f: func [][a]] z/a: 2 print [z/a z/f zz/a zz/f]
z: make zz: object [a: 1 f: func [][a]][a: 2] print [z/a z/f zz/a zz/f]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
Is this a demonstration of what you are calling a catastrophe @HostileFork:
2 1 1 1
2 2 1 1
 
@RebolBot
print {It's all bad, @MarkI, and there's tons of bugs against it:}
z: copy zz: object [a: 1 f: clos [][a]] z/a: 2 print [z/a z/f zz/a zz/f]
z: make zz: object [a: 1 f: clos [][a]][a: 2] print [z/a z/f zz/a zz/f]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
It's all bad, @MarkI, and there's tons of bugs against it:
2 1 1 1
2 2 1 1
 
If it's not different on func clos it's not the worst version of the catastrophe
 
Again, I pointlessly raise an objection to your calling behaviour you don't like "catastrophic", but AFAIAC if you don't like copy semantics, don't use copy. That is what make is for.
@HostileFork I am unaware of the bugs to which you refer.
Sorry about that, dear Bot.
Anyway, I just think that the behaviour I get when I run that code is (a) understandable (b) expected and (c) not a catastrophe.
 
1:46 AM
@MarkI Sigh. It's a catastrophe. I don't know if I feel like digging up the totality of the catastrophe right this minute. But you can't have it both ways... you were anti closure, so you believe that when an object which has functions as members and it gets derived or copied that the bodies of those functions should be copied and rebound or no?
So if I write an object which has N functions, then copy or derive that object, do you want N new function bodies? Also, when does the copying stop?
 
@HostileFork As I just explained, no I don't. I expect copy to behave differently from make, and I expect someone who is expecting them to behave the same to expect to be disappointed.
 
You need to get out some things and write some papers of what you do expect.
You need a publishing platform besides remarks made off the cuff here.
Maybe it's not Trello, maybe it's not code, maybe it's not a blog. But find a platform and put together arguments that have a start, middle, end.
I've chosen a mixture of code and Trello. Hardly perfect, I confess.
I wish we had a functioning issue database. @johnk worked hard, and it's blocked for reasons we do not know.
 
I am waiting for that as well, so, I am sorry also that it is not here.
One can hope that you would find my questions more acceptable there.
 
Earl has forsaken us.
Well I said, I want a start and middle and end.
 
Fine. Why do you think copy should be subsumed by make? I mean, where did you get the idea?
 
1:50 AM
And I'm not living up to it myself, due to these constraints, as much as I'd like to either, but I try and keep the comments in source and the Trello up as much as I can.
I don't think you should be able to COPY a function.
I don't believe MAKE should have any awareness of things like the word SELF, so that is getting in the mix too.
Basically, I pin enough things down of what is and what isn't, and the solution must fit in the remaining space.
 
Does refinement! need to die?
 
2:08 AM
@rgchris Yup!
refinement? can live on as a check for a path that starts with none! and has one element, if you are attached to it.
 
Eugh...
 
@rgchris great. It is working now
 
@rgchris Eugh? I find it hard to imagine what you're losing.
Don't be a Nenad or Peter Wood (or Rebolek). Realize when something is better than the bad thing that you've become accustomed to. Use your noggin.
You've got a good one. :-)
It doesn't make sense to have a path-looking thing be a word type, when it can just as easily contain one and react as one would expect to path manipulation.
/:foo => path! /(thing thing) => path!
We've stepped along carefully through the map and said that there are some things not worth sacrificing, e.g. the stringishness of URLs, that has a value.
But "refinement!" isn't in that category. And it's a nasty name too, for a class.
 
How are they evaluated? probe /foo
 
It's contextual. How do most languages handle this->foo ?
 
2:18 AM
parse [/foo][/foo]
 
That's not evaluative.
Well, it could be I guess (the second foo)
The idea is that if you say class/member then inside of member /foo looks for class/foo
 
parse [/foo][and path! into ['foo]]
 
Should work.
Well, I guess modulo the none
You have to consider that it's a path starting with none!, I tried other variants and they didn't pan out.
 
parse spec-of :copy [some [string! | word! | block! | and path! into [word!]]]
 
>> spec-of :copy
 
2:20 AM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [
    "Copies a series, object, or other value."
    value [series! port! map! object! bitset! any-function!] "At position"
    /part "Limits to a given length or position"
    length [number! series! pair!]
    /deep "Also copies series values within the block"
    /types "What datatypes to copy"
    kinds [typeset! datatype!]
]
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [
    "Copies a series, object, or other value."
    value [series! port! map! object! bitset! any-function!] "At position"
    /part "Limits to a given length or position"
    length [number! series! pair!]
    /deep "Also copies series values within the block"
    /types "What datatypes to copy"
    kinds [typeset! datatype!]
]
 
@rgchris You need to pick up the NONE!. A refinement as you know it is a NONE! and then the WORD!. As I said, I tried to think otherwise but could not.
So a/b is a two element path, /b is a two element path with a none in the first position. Unsets in paths are errors during evaluation.
Don't worry about expense, that's all covered.
It is very nice to be able to append quote /a 'b and get /a/b.
There is nothing beautiful or redeeming about refinement in its current form, nor is the name appealing.
 
I like the form.
 
@rgchris Well, you'll still have it. I'm hard pressed to think of what you've lost, so you'll have to tell me what. But as I've been forced to tell a number of other people, if you want broken... there's a man hell-bent on giving it to you.
 
I'm open to the change but would miss some of the convenience working with it.
 
I don't really understand what the convenience is.
>> append quote /a 'b
 
2:28 AM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-expect-arg.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: append does not allow refinement! for its series argument
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
I call that "inconvenient"
>> append quote a/b 'c
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== a/b/c
 
I like the nice short four letter PATH!
I do not like the ren::Refinement class, I do not approve.
 
I get those, and that it is a solution to the SELF issue. Just need to contemplate what is lost—I've used the form for it's convenience before and need to think about how it was used and whether it is worth the workaround/living without.
 
@rgchris Well I do appreciate thoughtful contemplation, but I doubt this is going to turn back. It would take a very pointed and systemic counter-solve to mine to do so.
Much like definitional return was a rachet that clicked and won't go back unless someone comes up with a reasoned superior alternative, that is how it goes.
And Nenad can be willfully ignorant of it, and source the function, and have whatever naive reaction he wishes to have to it.
But that is neither here nor there in the facts of the matter, regarding solving the problem.
 
2:34 AM
Unrelated to my aversion to losing refinement, I'm uncomfortable with the missing/implied none.
 
@rgchris Why?
 
It's the visual interpretation—there's nothing about /foo that suggests there is a NONE! value lurking there.
 
>> pick [1] 2
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== none
 
Lurk lurk
 
2:36 AM
Not quite the same:
 
(Noting of course in Ren-C that's an unset, but I'm just speaking about the general concept of comfort)
 
>> to block! /foo
== [none foo]
 
Works for me.
/ is an interstitial
The thing before it is either unset or none.
>> to block! foo/bar
== [foo bar]
 
change [none foo] 'something
change /foo 'something
 
I understand your concern, but at the same time, I have also thought about it pretty hard. We can't make /foo a path where foo is the first element.
That has turned out to be non-negotiable, which threw wrenches in some optimization plans I had.
 
2:39 AM
So similar to the missing unset here: do [help]
 
Incidentally I just changed the error messages for that
>> do [help]
@RebolBot delete
 
>> do [help help]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
USAGE:
    HELP 'word /doc

DESCRIPTION:
    Prints information about words and values.
    HELP is a function value.

ARGUMENTS:
    word (any-type!)

REFINEMENTS:
    /doc -- Open web browser to related documentation.
 
@RebolBot
foo: func [:arg] [
   print "I don't take an unset"
]

do [foo]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-expect-arg.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: foo does not allow unset! for its :arg argument
** Where: do
** Near: do [foo]
 
2:41 AM
The new error message does not say "foo does not allow unset! for its :arg argument"
@RebolBot
foo: func [arg] [
    print "I don't take an unset either, but I'm not quoted"
]

do [foo]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-arg.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: foo is missing its arg argument
** Where: do
** Near: do [foo]
 
That's the message you get now in the quoted case, too.
Very subtle change, so much so most wouldn't notice, but... it changed.
REFINEMENT! is bad. I'm busy fixing that badness along with other bad lines of thinking like "word symbols don't need to be GC'd" or whatever other litany of bad ideas lurk.
Wipin' em out one after another.
 
So back on refinement—is it still the form that is going to be used in function specifications?
func [foo /bar][...]
In essence: func [foo (none)/bar][...]
 
@rgchris yes.
Tech magic is about to make 0, 1, 2 element series "cheap"
If I am to pull off everything I've done so far, plus a change like this, and meet the 2x speed goal then I will need some magic somewhere.
 
3:05 AM
rebol.info appears to be back up. There should have been no disruption in the creation of feeds, so they should all be up to date. Unfortunately @Feeds bot has a fairly low age threshold, so any items generated during the outage probably won't be posted :(
Also too, they were all removed automatically—argh!
 
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
posted on November 29, 2015 by rosanoff

Bonjour, je cherche un moyen pour 'uploader' une image jpg en rebol3 avec un formulaire cgi méthode post. Cela fait 3 jours que je travaille dessus sans succès donc je suis preneur de toutes les idées que vous pourriez avoir. Merci par avance et bon dev.

posted on November 30, 2015 by Oldes

With this change one can do: red>> make string! ["a" "b"] == "ab" red>> make string! [a "b"] == "ab" red>> a: 1 make string! reduce [a "b"] == "1b"

posted on December 01, 2015 by qtxie

FIX: set http header incorrectly when doing http post by qtxie

 
@RebolBot tweet "http://rebol.info was down for a little while, should be ok now!"
 
@rgchris Sending this as a tweet: rebol.info was down for a little while, should be ok now!
 
Disasters aren't so bad when you build stuff with Rebol!
 
3:27 AM
http://rebol.info was down for a little while, should be ok now!
 
 
2 hours later…
5:39 AM
@HostileFork I'm home now :) I had some school work to finish which is the reason for the delay. Yes I am located in Ukiah and my internship is with Respect Tech. I am learning Rebol from the shop owner (name not mentioned for privacy respect) and I can already understand the basics of the language after just a combined 9 hours of study.
Rebol is far different from anything I have previously seen. The shop owner tells me that you are developing a new programming language built on Rebol (can't remember if it was Red) called Ren-C. He also shared that you designed the logo for Red and Rebol. I especially like the Rebol logo!
 
 
1 hour later…
6:53 AM
@rgchris Um.. no rebol mentioned on rebol.info for me (it's a page of links to other languages). Is it some sort of dns propogation delay and I'll see Rebol mentioned later?
 
@Brett I think so—I had the same problem.
>> parse to string! read rebol.info [thru <title> copy title to </title> (probe title) to end]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
"Rebol Community Projects Site"
== true
 
7:09 AM
Cool.
 
@HostileFork my test rebolbot is running happily with a freshly built ren-c
 
 
2 hours later…
8:53 AM
@www139 Glad to hear you're a fan of the logo! It was a long process.
Ren-C isn't in my opinion a new language. It fixes some fundamental flaws and attacks issues that were known problems with Rebol3 Alpha.
 
 
4 hours later…
1:10 PM
@HostileFork Replacing a word type with a path type needlessly makes Rebol more complex. Parsing function specs will have to handle paths, and fishing words out of paths. There is no compensatory gain to be had by this.
But the worst part, the absolute, undeniable, ridiculously worst part of this, is that everyone who has ever done any programming in Rebol knows this. So the fact that it has not been mentioned until now means that all such people save myself have permanently abandoned this forum.
 
 
5 hours later…
6:00 PM
@MarkI "parsing function specs will have to handle paths". Oh no. Do they have to handle, say blocks? Will they now have to handle tags? Think of the children.
It is less complex, not more. One fewer type to teach and worry about. One less speedbump, one more flexible piece for dialect construction. /foo/bar is useful.
 
@HostileFork Knew you'd say that! Fact remains, they don't have to handle paths now.
 
And specifically to solve the problem I've mentioned. Rebol needs a dispatch supported object member calling system, analogous to this->xxx
 
@HostileFork I have no objection to introducing a ref-path! type.
 
And I am pretty sure that /xxx is about our best bet for that.
So when you want to do this->xxx.yyy then /xxx/yyy is quite sensible
 
@HostileFork And teaching people that /foo is a path of two items is, well, impossible.
 
6:04 PM
I do not feel that way.
 
@HostileFork No, it doesn't. Use make instead of copying objects. Problem solved.
 
What are you even talking about.
 
@HostileFork You are misguided. It is needlessly complex to force people to read /foo as two items.
 
The problems of rebinding within the functions of objects has in general the problem of any kind of copying of functions in general
 
@HostileFork The "problem you mentioned"? That copying objects does not rebind the functions in them?
 
6:05 PM
I don't care if it's with MAKE or COPY or what you call it.
The problem is it shouldn't. And I told you that you, with your fear of "garbage", should welcome a this-pointer style system whereby the evaluator participates to help a binding navigate to the appropriate instance that doesn't need to have a rebound body.
It's missing, it's needed, and whether you MAKE or COPY there shouldn't be a need to go about inside of functions that are bound to archetypal instances of fields and rebind them.
And I feel that yes, /foo/bar is a very nice and extant type of notation for this. And no, I do not think that if foo/baz/bar exists that it's a terrible tax to know that /baz/bar is a notational convenience for #[_]/baz/bar.
 
@HostileFork It is very sad that I am the only person here that tries to point out your misunderstandings of Rebol, because I am terrible at it.
 
Well, if you're terrible at it maybe it's you who have the misunderstandings.
 
Maybe. Maybe not. I at least am aware that Rebol is a prototype-based object language, not class-based.
 
I am aware that Rebol had some things in it that did not work.
 
Such languages need to rebind during object construction.
@HostileFork You have done a terrific job of fixing several things that did not work.
Unfortunately, refinements work just fine.
 
6:12 PM
If I write a function FOO, and then make an x: object [y: ... z: ...], and then say x/y: :foo what should happen?
 
You are binding the word y in the context x to FOO.
 
If I copy or make that object or do something with it, should :foo ever be affected?
 
I don't think there's any way to affect a function after you create it. There used to be in Rebol 2.
Your problem is that for some reason you want references to z in FOO to refer to x's z's after the assignment.
 
I do not believe I ever advocated for magic.
@RebolBot
a: 10
foo: does [print a]
foo
obj: object [a: "this" b: :foo]
obj/b
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
10
10
 
6:19 PM
@HostileFork The magic goes away :)
But unfortunately there is no "inheritance" like that in prototype-based object languages.
When you create a new object from an old one, that's when the inheritance happens, implemented in Rebol during make via rebinding.
 
This is the thing I think is a bad idea.
@RebolBot
foo: make object! [a: "this" b: does [print a]]
foo/b
bar: make foo [a: "that"]
bar/b
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
this
that
 
And if, inside either b, you were to ask what a is bound to, you would get a definite answer, unlike in your proposal.
 
The binding is definitive, it's merely the path lookup that does something derivative for you. That is already the case.
 
No comprende.
 
6:30 PM
@RebolBot
word: unbind 'a
obj1: [a: 10]
obj2: [a: 20]
print obj1/:word
print obj2/:word
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
10
20
 
Word is quite definitively not bound at all in that case.
What I'm suggesting is arguably more rigorous.
It is not messing with binding one bit. It is adding a feature to path dispatch.
 
Oh, OK, I see what you mean. But in path lookup, it is what is to the left that provides the context, so of course the binding of the words doesn't matter in that case.
But the reference to a inside the foo is a bound reference, and not done via any sort of path or dispatch.
 
In this case I'm merely saying that /foo (/foo/xxx/yyy) will indeed heed the binding of foo.
It will influence the lookup, but it will be cooperative with a bit of information from the evaluator, regarding where the call originated from.
So if /foo is run in a function x called as something/x it will be looked up contextually differently than if it had been called as somethingelse/x. The binding will ensure that permission was had by that body to see the item, and objects will have a notion of being able to "follow the archetype" into the derived class if a binding to the archetype was had.
It's still very much definitionally scoped, it still follows the rules of binding, and it cleans up your feared "garbage"
 
>> a: 7 b: func [][a] c: func [/local a][a: 0 b] c
 
6:42 PM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 7
 
You're saying that should result in 0. I, and Rebol, disagree.
Er, I mean, if you are saying that. Am I missing something? Are you not saying that?
 
Uh, no I do not think that should result in 0
 
Good. How about:
>> a: 7 b: func [][a] c: func [/local a f][f: copy :b f] c
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 7
 
6:57 PM
In my world, copying a function is either illegal or gives you the same value back.
red> copy foo: func [][a]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
*** Script error: copy does not allow function for its value argument
*** Where: copy
*** Stack: do-console all not unset? set do first head reduce do* _execute if all not unset? set do first head reduce do* copy
 
So that's a no also. How about:
>> o: object [a: 7 b: func [][a] c: func [/local a f][a: 0 f: copy :b f]] o/c
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 7
 
You can see where I am going with this. My final example is just what you are talking about:
>> o: object [a: 7 b: func [][a] c: object [a: 0 d: copy :b]] o/c/d
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 7
 
7:11 PM
You are saying that should result in 0, right?
 
@MarkI As mentioned above, copying a function is either an error or just gives you the same value back (based on our question of permissiveness of copy, already wondered about in terms of if copy 3 should be legal). o/c/d will give the same result as o/b if copy is deemed legal
 
Ah, right, sorry, I have to copy the object. One sec ...
 
7:33 PM
>> o: object [a: 7 b: func [][a]] c: copy o c/a: 0 c/b
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 7
 
That's the one you want to be 0. Am I right this time finally?
Hey @rebolek, good to see you! Any words of wisdom?
Are you an OO guru by any chance, for example?
 
7:51 PM
Hi @MarkI, words of wisdom? I just returned from Prague and if you’re in Prague, you should visit Prague Beer Museum. That would be very wise thing to do.
Unfortunately, I can’t help you with OO very much :-(
 
8:02 PM
@rebolek That is, like, the wisest advice I've ever gotten, thanks! How was the weather in Prague?
 
@MarkI In the world I'm proposing, bindings will stay the same in functions from the time of their definition on, unless manually rebound. The trick with /foo is a subversion of that mechanism which, as I said, is somewhat akin to the idea of obj1/:word and obj2/:word. So entirely a by-product of the logic of path dispatch.
 
@MarkI Glad to help you! The weather was like usual this time of year in this corner of world. Some rain, bit of sun, lot of clouds and temperatures around 10 degrees.
 
The only "new" part of that is the idea that objects would have an inheritance path known to the system. If you dispatch something/x then if within x there is a /foo, it would be willing to connect to that object's foo member if it could justify it from any binding previous in the derivation chain.
I also believe that notationally, the specification of a parent object via sitting in the type slot of MAKE is likely a poor choice. I believe much of the mechanics of things like SELF etc. should be taken care of by generators which leverage the basic means of the system.
 
@HostileFork Okey fine, but how are you going to handle assignment of the resulting "function"? In x: :b/f x how is x going to "remember" the path dispatching?
 
A reasonable question, and we have other questions in that area today like ao: :append/only which I'd also like to make work.
Both of these would have to create new function values, if you did it.
You cannot just by storing "append" remember the /only, and you can't just by storing the f remember the :b
 
8:11 PM
@HostileFork So, they would have to do what make does to an object's functions today ...
 
@MarkI I don't know what you mean by that. There is no intrinsic difference between make object! compose [(parent) [stuff]] and make parent [stuff] other than ithe former fits the pattern where you can use either a type or exemplar interchangeably...and it's a bit more of a nuisance to have to reduce things to get them into the block vs. having them outside where the evaluator will naturally process the word lookup.
But that is also the nature of make function! [spec body], which had to be reduced since time immemorial. Then along comes FUNC and its arity 2 and it does the dirty work. If people get out of the habit of thinking of MAKE XXX! as being something that has to be ergonomic for users but rather as low level mechanics then things start make-ing more sense.
And then we push things along and get rid of SELF as a keyword known to MAKE, and build things proper-like, where if such things are interesting they go in the generator.
 
I am all for selflessness :)
But I am slightly skeptical of :x/y doing any kind of "building".
 
Maybe it's another operation. I dunno.
 
Worth discussing anyway. Thanks for your time HF, fun as always ...
 
Well do go back and look at some of the curecode tickets, bugs, and issues pertaining to this idea of hunting function bodies and rebinding them
 
8:24 PM
Man, I have wanted to do that for over 2 years now, but it is ridiculously hard to automate CC, I have been waiting for SO issues.
 
And think about how /x/y is a keywordless, system-assisted solution to self/x/y. Less noise and it may make you not think so much about wanting or needing self.
if /x [print "this is a pretty tight way of getting at a member variable."]
if /x/y [print "and if you want to subselect, this is pretty nice too."]
 
We don't want to make it so simple that it is illiterate :)
 
Wee test of the #Rebol hashtag for @RebolBot
 
Are tweets supposed to have localized timestamps? Because that's ... just wrong.
 
UTC I believe.
 
8:28 PM
Oh. Right. Me dumb. Maybe needs a "UTC" somewhere though.
 
Yeah, that would be useful. Don't see the Stack folk changing that one though.
 
No. In their defence, it's more of an "I want" then a "must fix".
 
I see it as broken myself.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:39 PM
>> delta-time [loop 50000000 [if true ["R3-Alpha"]]]
== 0:00:04.956575

>> delta-time [loop 50000000 [if true ["Ren-C"]]]
== 0:00:03.566888
 
10:13 PM
>> spelling-of next "apache"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: spelling-of has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
Try this --^ on ren-c...
 
 
1 hour later…
11:16 PM
posted on December 02, 2015 by giuliolunati

Copy_String(src, n, -1) must not try copy beyond tail

 

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