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8:01 PM
Healthcare, government, insurance, and banking... the pinnacle of forward-thinking development.
 
just the industries that don't understand what they're doing well enough to progress
one of my favorite parts about my current company is that the CEO has a vision and is most easily swayed from that with numbers and metrics
 
I've dealt with medicare, many state medicaids, the commercials (cigna, united, aetna), state bluecrosses (wellmark, wellcare, carefirst, highmark, etc). The government does healthcare as well or better than the commercials. I don't think privatization is working.
 
oh, the entire health insurance industry is collapsing from the inside
 
@Allenph hey man, are you still here?
 
I worked with some of those as well (although under NDAs) and they're shedding money like nothing else
 
8:03 PM
Ping me when you see this please
 
Why does the government do better though?
 
I've only worked with them by getting data from them, talking to thier system's, using their SSOs.
 
she kinda looks like chris pratt's wife from parks & rec
 
@Vap0r The only way you can get away with figuratively burning money is by literally printing it.
 
If you've heard about the recent Davita ESRD fraud thing on the news, medicare/medicaid finds fraud from them all the time. We've been involved in finding and reporting
 
8:05 PM
@ssube I figured it was something like that.
As far as healthcare, is it an issue of private industry vs government, or is it a bigger problem with healthcare? I don't pretend to know anything about the healthcare industry definitively other than that it is mind-boggling-levels of complex.
 
It's not that complex, actually.
 
It's an old people thing
 
I don't often think of the healthcare industry
 
Most other insurance industries are very simple, health insurance would be if they weren't screwing folks quite so hard.
They're very cavalier about just how much they're boning people, too.
 
I was only talking about incompetence of IT and general screwing up.
 
8:08 PM
Well, some of those screwups are so that they don't have to share info.
They really hate giving other people your info, unless they're making money by doing so.
 
They have kept sending us tapes of healthcare data we didn't want because they didn't know how to STOP it.
I forget which company that was.
 
Quite a few of the clients at my last place forced their employees to opt into sharing their info with us.
 
@ TheRegulars Have you guys ever collaborated on a JS project together?
 
@ssube what's the solution? Ask for altruism from multi-billion dollar private companies? Or make healthcare a public service and hope that we don't get boned by politicians (hah)
 
At at least one company was/is being sued because they charged employees extra on their insurance if they wouldn't sign up for our programs.
 
8:10 PM
Anyone else here use jest? I'm trying to spy on a constructor, but jest is saying that it's never called
 
@Vap0r there isn't one today. We would need a functioning government to either administrate or regulate things.
 
Can't we just have Canada's?
 
move there
 
canada's what? government?
 
We could annex them or something right?
 
8:11 PM
@KevinB government, PM, syrup, trees, everything but the snow.
 
canada's healtcare has issues, too. Look wider.
 
No, healthcare, I want to be able to be shot by a gun during a shifty drug deal and know I'm not going to die in the waiting room.
 
They can also keep Justin.
 
the Scandinavian countries are probably the best place to look
 
@Vap0r Then you want the US.
Canada will let you die for free in the waiting room. The US will save you and then ruin you financially.
 
8:12 PM
Oh dear.
 
(joking, I have no idea how canada's emergency treatment is. don't get upset you northerners) :)
 
Do you just repeat what you hear on fox news or what
 
Fox news would never have said the last few words :)
I'm being cynical all around.
 
@ssube I always hear people bring up scalability issues when it comes to scandinavian and nordic countries
 
then use smaller countries
 
8:13 PM
Also, I favor a public option. I can both criticize something and want something like it.
 
@ssube huh?
 
In my experience, most of which comes from playing Democracy 2 or 3, you need to: cut military spending, cut pensions, legalize drugs, and provide free healthcare, housing, and education.
 
I just think that there are some legit complains about Canada's system but lefties use it as the holy grail. They need to be more careful.
 
But if you do it too quickly, you'll be assassinated.
 
We should split the us into like 50 countries
 
8:15 PM
Then who do the territories go to?
 
@Meredith I think 3 would do the trick, maybe 4 if we want to leave the South out of the fun.
 
splitting just means that some (new) countries will slide into a darker era.
 
Yeah the problem is that if you let the south run itself, bad things will happen
 
The west coast that does useful stuff, the east coast doing useful stuff, the midwest existing, and the south who would probably start another war in short order.
 
Like imagine if alabama were independent
 
8:16 PM
@ssube as a Floridian I can only cry. Meredith is crying too
 
@Meredith letting them run the whole country seems to be worse
 
Florida would split into 2
Everything south of gainesville would generally be ok
 
Those folks can dig a ditch and float into the ocean, join the Bahamas or something.
We need to all secede from the south, really.
 
North Florida would become part of the south, and South Florida would become the North Caribbean peninsula
 
Nov 7 '16 at 21:04, by Vap0r
I just don't understand how anyone could think that Trump has a chance? Popular vote wise Hillary has an edge. Electorally Hillary has it in the bag. And this is coming from soneone who wants neither of them to win.
 
8:17 PM
@ssube Iowa's actually working on legalizing medical marijuana, with the ability to obtain it from Minnesota until they state can get their growing programs in place.
 
hey, don't leave me with these wackos down here
 
@Luggage oh jeez you have my angst saved now?
 
:)
 
someone can be canada's 14th? we're taking applications now.
 
8:18 PM
Can you: import * as myDir from './includes/*.js';
 
@Luggage That seems like it should definitely be the 'wrong' command for Cap
 
He also saved the picture of my feet that I posted :/
 
@jake not that easily
 
@ssube #retiredMemes
 
Well we all have a feet folder we have to fill
 
8:18 PM
Ok, didn't think so.
 
@jake but I was serious
 
@Vap0r I have a meter folder, thanks.
 
One point awarded to @rlemon
Now get out
 
cc @KendallFrey
 
@rlemon metre
 
8:21 PM
@KendallFrey I was translating for the FloridaMan
 
@rlemon when it's full it's size should be about 1 tonne
 
:good save lemon, self-five:
 
I can speak non-american
 
anyone know why this doesn't work?
const constructor = jest.spyOn(StringDecoder, 'constructor');
it doesn't seem to actually spy on the constructor
 
if jest.spyOn works anything like sinon, you're asking it to spy on StringDecoder.prototype.constructor
 
8:23 PM
hmm, mayhaps
 
can you omit the second param?
 
nope
 
next theory, do you really need to spy on a constructor? That sounds like a mock.
 
I'm avoiding mocking it so I don't have to unmock it after this test is done, but I might just have to do that
 
"unmock it"?
 
8:26 PM
when jest mocks stuff, it breaks the actual implementation, so I have to unmock it in order to actually test the output of the function after I test that the class is being instantiated
it makes sense in my head
just probably not in reality
 
ah.
Whenever I run into that, I refactor the class to either take the dependency (or a constructor/factory thereof) as a parameter. Usually a constructor param.
 
@SterlingArcher I'm not actively on here because I'm not at work, but I'm here. Yeah. What's up?
 
Then you can replace the dependency implementation with the mock just for one instance, during testing.
 
@rlemon nudge np.reddit.com/user/Mouthymerc should have an update
 
8:35 PM
ohey, some people I know were on TV (sort of) for Twilio's conference
 
> Senior full stack engineer
What kind of pretentious title....
 
We don't hire devs who can't work on both sides of the app.
 
bastard doesn't have an update yet
:(
 
@rlemon He gets off work at 4pm est, he might have a 30+ minute drive home, lol.
 
like, we only have full-stack devs, you can't get away with just being a backend guy
 
I get that Sean, but who the fuck puts that as their title?
 
everyone?
it's like the most popular title right now
 
What's wrong with it
 
@rlemon did /r/redpill leak?
 
That's what our senior full stack engineers call themselves
 
8:39 PM
it boils down to "I'm not just some asshole who knows CSS"
 
@Trasiva np.reddit.com/user/Mouthymerc I clicked on permalink on the latest post
 
I dunno, I'd probably just refer to myself as a 'senior engineer' and leave it at that. If someone asks about my job description, I can mention that I'm a full stack dev.
 
got that stupid picture?
 
@rlemon The one of her in bed?
 
That makes it sound like you want people to think you're a more impressive kind of engineer
 
8:40 PM
I tell people I write code, or program, or mess with computers. Unless they are technical then I might give them some BS fluff title
 
"Oh you're an engineer? Mechanical? Electrical? ...Oh, software"
 
who claims to be an unspecified engineer? That's just weird
 
How do I get a verbose npm install?
 
like, I have no idea what the fuck that is
 
8:41 PM
I can't figure out why npm install elemental isn't working.
 
@rlemon What the actual hell?
 
try --verbose
 
@Meredith holy crap it's not playing around with how verbose that output is
 
It actually worked?
 
lol yeah
 
8:43 PM
@rlemon Whoa, I just clicked that, I got the same thing. Wtf.
 
link works now
 
That appears to be one trashbag standing on a couple other trashbags, with some kind of rave poster between them.
 
w..t..f..
 
But we all learned an important lesson today
 
> You wanna be a McPoyle, trashbag?
 
8:48 PM
@rlemon Still links there for me.
 
weird
 
so is web assembly anything meaningful yet?
 
no
everyone knows there's nothing meaningful about the Internet in general
That silly fad will probably die off in a year or two
 
I don't really get what it's point is. I am watching the talk from EU JScon
 
Gotta go fast
 
8:50 PM
it'll make a very small corner of the web much much faster
 
Web shit is taking too damn long to load and execute
 
Should allow us to move on from javascript in general
 
^ no
 
Why not
 
I'll be happy when we get a TypeScript -> Wasm compiler
 
8:51 PM
how would wasm replace JS?
 
Cuz you wouldnt have to compile to js
 
why would you move away from JS though? I would figure JS would just evolve to suit the new environment better... it seems pretty well suited.
 
JS is a pretty shitty language
 
WASM is getting the DOM eventually
 
because fucking everyone compiles to JS now, no one writes it natively except SQUARES
 
8:52 PM
JS kinda sucks yeah but it seems to fit a specific use case relatively well, no?
 
No
 
As soon as WASM does get the DOM and other APIs, I am so done with JS
 
JS is not a great language, but it's easy to get into and the tooling is quite excellent now. There is a reason it is so popular.
also, modern JS is very capable.
 
@rlemon the only reason JS is so popular is that it's the only browser-side coding language supported by basically every browser
 
I feel like javascript has stuck around for a reason :|
 
8:53 PM
It is ripe for being usurped by a more capable language
 
that's not the only reason, but that was a good motivator to make it better
 
Yeah, the same thing happened to Java
It was called C#
 
yes, and they're improving JS
 
(no but seriously, it'll be around forever whether we like it or not)
 
es3 -> es2015 is a huge improvement.
 
8:54 PM
Hell, if having issues was enough reason to kill a language, PHP would have been dead a decade ago.
 
Once people start compiling js to wasm, it stops making sense to use js
 
That's it
 
I have yet to see C# being used, even though I've heard it's great. Just like Go. Maybe I am just pidgeon-holed into front end dev role
 
I don't see that happening (people stopping using JS) for the foreseeable future.
 
People use JS because it's the only language that makes sense for browser scripting.
 
8:55 PM
@ShotgunNinja if that were true JS wouldn't be used so heavily outside of the browser context
 
Once a language comes along that can do literally everything better, it'll go the way of VB.
 
It also really doesn't make sense to use node
 
why not?
 
Like the only advantage is the package manager
 
lol. no it isn't
 
8:56 PM
@rlemon The main driver behind non-browser JS usage is the massive number of JS developers spurred by browser-based JS usage.
 
but it's five pm, so I'll have to argue that point in like 20 minutes
 
There are so many JS developers now that it makes sense to apply it to server-side and native app development as well.
It took a long time for JS to reach the ubiquity that it has now
 
see, I see it the other way. there are so many js devs now because it is so ubiquitous
 
And lots of frameworks came and went which spurred it from horrible to usable.
 
Node came well after the js explosion
 
8:57 PM
jQuery was the js explosion
Suddenly all that boilerplate melted away, and scripting a webpage for simple dynamic effects was, well, simple.
 
and Zend exploded PHP
 
but what is more popular today? it's not the only reason
people actually enjoy writing JS. I know it might seem odd to you guys... but its' true
2
 
I love writing JS, but I could never write pure vanilla JS
 
and @Florian exploded Lisp.
 
8:59 PM
!!afk 🚗 🏠 🍺 🍪
 
!!afk 🚗🌯🏡
 
package managers, dependency injection, semantic versioning, webpack and its ilk, high-level frameworks with massive communities, all of those are new since I started writing JS in high school to make my MySpace page a little cooler.
 
pure vanilla js, or pure vanilla js accessing the web api. becuase... even using react, angular, typescript, whatever, most of the logic/work is done in pure vanilla js, even in all of those.
 
ECMAScript is a great standard, of which JS is the slightly crufty reference implementation.
 
Just remove [].push from the language and I'll be happy
 
9:01 PM
@KevinB yeah, most
 
I'd be surprised if it isn't all
 
Well no shit, Angular isn't a separate language
It's a framework
Which means that using Angular is still using Javascript
 
like, a lot of the complaints i see about javascript is actually about the web api, the dom api, the things jquery "made easy."
 
Pure vanilla JS, using the Web API, is quite a bit different from using Angular or jQuery on top of the web API
 
these frameworks make it easy by removing that work from your hands too.
 
9:02 PM
@rlemon No beer!
 
Oh the language itself really sucks too
 
@Trasiva rlemon is afk: 🚗 🏠 🍺 🍪
 
and it trades one challenge for another, slightly easier challenge
 
Fuck you Cap
 
Instead of dealing with massive amounts of vanilla JS code for a simple behavior, you have to learn a framework and how that does what you want
It can be argued that it hides implementation details, but with the advantage of not needing to know as much about how everything works under the hood. We're trying to drive to our destination, not build a car.
 
9:06 PM
i mean... that's the same difficulty you have with any other language, no?
 
I enjoy writing JS with frameworks and tools to let me focus on encapsulating business logic and getting things working. If I had to implement a webapp in vanilla JS I'd shoot myself in the head.
 
I've never seen less that looked like this. Any ideas what .transition() is?
.Modal {
	.transition( visibility 140ms );
	bottom: 0;
	left: 0;
}
This is LESS, by the way
 
Of course it's the same difficulty, but there are reasons languages are chosen over others, and that generally has to do more with how suitable the language is to the desired outcome of the program.
Making a webapp? Well, if it does anything browser-side, for right now, it's gotta use JS.
You can write it in a language that compiles or transpiles to JS, but it's gotta run as JS for now.
That monopoly has led to a huge community, now that there are frameworks to build different kinds of applications more easily.
 
I just don't understand the problem you have with that.
I think that's a good thing.
 
If something else came along that could do the same thing natively, it still couldn't compete with the sheer power of the community in its current form.
It's neither a good nor a bad thing, to me. I don't have a problem with it.
I just prefer to use TypeScript over JS, in much the same way I prefer C++ to C.
It's effectively the same language with added features and a few extra steps to run.
 
9:12 PM
I like typescript as well. Especially the fact that it doesn't change the syntax significantly the way coffeescript did.
Initially i hated the idea of typescript because i thought it would be just another coffeescript
 
However, there are definitely issues with Javascript, as there are with every language.
Issues with the core APIs, the language design, existing runtimes, and the community.
They're generally less pronounced than in most other language stacks and communities, but they still exist
as such, we're allowed, as members of that community, to bitch about those issues.
 
@Trasiva why the fuck not?
@KevinB that was also my initial response, then I looked into it a bit more. seems sensible enough, just not for me.
I'd ping you less if you enjoyed less of the things I enjoy.
 
9:35 PM
Alright I'll see you guys tomorrow. Thanks again @rlemon for the help. I'll do some reading in my off time about imports and exports
 
okay Art.
 
Art?
 
Vandelay
he's an importer exporter.
 
Whoa is someone badmouthing coffeescript in here?
 
Never saw seinfeld or friends or any of those so I'm short on the pop culture references. Sorry I'm a shitty individual
 
9:36 PM
i'll fite you
 
@david everyone
 
Lol coffeescript dude late to the game, whoda thunk
 
you kids and your babel think you're so cool
doing things we've been doing with coffeescript for years
 
!!afk no one likes old coffeescript
 
coffeescript is still used?
how can people badmouth it?
 
9:42 PM
I don't think it is used much anymore, babel has pretty much superseded it
it gives the same benefits but has the backing of standards authorities and shit
 
Not babel, js the language
coffeescript is an important part of js history, but it's that: history
 
No, definitely babel. the transpilation is the key point
 
Atom still uses it in many parts
 
158.5k, rented for 1950
I wonder what's wrong with it
 
9:44 PM
@david Not so relevant anymore with evergreen browsers supporting most of what you transpile down
 
@Mosho Looks kinda dirty
But brick! good boy
 
@BenFortune Atom uses it because github devs already know ruby
 
@Zirak also.. the inconsistent syntax is an issue. babel takes real js and converts it to other real js. coffeescript takes liberties on their syntax.
 
@BenFortune that is an extremely high return for the area
 
@Mosho attached 😒 and yea the price is suspect.
make an appointment and check it out.
 
9:47 PM
I'm about to
 
take an inspector if you're serious.
my guess is some serious foundation issues and/or mold.
there has to be a reason for that price.
it's 100K under what it should be
 
ahhh. row housing.
 
both below 200k as well
 
price controlled, low income housing.
 
9:49 PM
first one says it's licensed for 5 and rented at 1950
 
looks like the area I grew up in
 
doesn't say to how many
 
there were a few beheadings there a while after we moved out :D
 
@Mosho idk. imo you'll get a lot of noise in one of those.
like domestics, police, drugs, etc.
I lived in something similar
but check it out. make sure to note the neighborhood
 
the census looks fine for it
but I would have to walk around
streetview looks nice too
street looks like any other street in waterloo
 
9:52 PM
they almost certainly have an association that keeps things looking nice
 
school 2 minutes walk away
 
doesn't mean much
my development was mostly rentals and the association just fined them constantly, it didn't do much
the constant domestics and occasional cops were more annoying
 
but it's canada
how bad can it be
 
people are still assholes.
 
but they're nice assholes
 
9:53 PM
just assholes with less accessibility to firearms.
 
yeah, you'll just have domestics and crack dealers, instead of domestics, crack dealers, and organized gangs
 
we have organized gangs.
Toronto has lots of gangs.
more land + less population density means they're more focused to major city centers tho.
 
yeah TO is a big city, and it's still nicer than pretty much any american equivalent
 
that's generally true here as well, it just so happens the entire east coast is a major city center
 
I can't stand driving in TO
I do however accept it's only 40% the shitty drivers, and 60% the shitty infrastructure
TO was never designed to be so big (if you look at the roads)
 
9:57 PM
Never come to MN, it's 100% of both.
 
dude.. Toronto is almost undrivable.
I enjoyed driving in Chicago more than TO
 
have you guys driven in Marseille?
 
I grew up driving near Baltimore and driving in the twin cities scares the shit out of me.
 
and Chicago is so far the worst traffic I've experienced in the US
 
it's really fun
 
9:58 PM
Chicago and the east coast have somewhat competent, if aggressive, drivers.
 
I've driven in detroit
it was pretty wild
but not much trafffic
 
detroit wasn't so bad for me. just the entire town looks like a movie set for a post apocalyptic story line.
town/whatever
you know what I'm saying
 
downtown still impresses
 
"wild" is a good term to describe Marseille's traffic. It's also the city with most traffic jams in Europe, last I heard.
 
9:59 PM
I didn't tour much. just following GPS to get to the border and such
it took me through some rough areas
Windsor just after you cross is no better
 
yeah been to windsor
it's alright, but pretty depressing
 
> Picture a bank or other secure facility that has hired two separate private security services that spend all night sneaking around with flashlights trying to catch all the people sneaking around with flashlights.
that's a great description
 
it gets better the further from the border you get
 
yeah st catharines is a little slummy too
 
> bush did bush did 9/11?!
 
10:01 PM
@FlorianMargaine for comparison, Ontario 401 is the busiest highway in North America, and runs through Toronto, the largest city in Canada.
 
those townhouses are ~14 minutes walk from future LRT too
 
put that together and you get a hot shitstorm.
 
i'm under the impression that this company isn't using version control
there's so much code/debugging left in their code just commented out
 
Leave.
 
its not my company
it's a third party that they paid for
 
10:11 PM
I'm not saying I haven't done it... but commented out code making its way into production is a big red flag.
 
it's just.. awful. so many functions and variables ending up on window,
//alert("m in getval");
wut
 
Anyone's chat sometimes get a big black bar near the top?
 
Youtube needs a temporary "I don't want to see this for a while" button.
For when you get burned out on something, but plan to come back later.
 
even better:
jQuery("#"+combo_id).html(stateHtml);
document.getElementById(combo_id+"-error").style.display="none";
 
I haven't seen any black bars
 
10:14 PM
@BenFortune chrome
it's an update lag thing I think
 
I can never catch it when it happens
 
goes away when I mouse over.
 
yeah
 
windows?
 
yep
 
10:14 PM
7?
 
ahh. maybe just chrome on windows in general.
 
10:38 PM
ugh, I can't find my card reader, and without that I can't reset my gopro, which seriously limits my flying abilities
 
ok, going to see that slum tomorrow morning
 
god dammit.
ksp updated.
four days till I can play again
 
You can fly?
 
yeh bruh, got wings
drank some red bull and they fuckin grew right out
 
10:59 PM
god dammit.. rimworld updated as well and now my workbenches are all bugged
:(
this is not turning into a good gaming night for me
 

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