« first day (47 days earlier)      last day (219 days later) » 
06:00 - 19:0019:00 - 21:00

6:19 AM
Happy dipawali guys!!
 
 
8 hours later…
1:50 PM
So... what's your favorite contract? Mine is playTo.
 
hey guys
i have a win8 question
 
Hi @shyju
 
hey i am building a win8 app in C# and xaml
and wondering how will i bring the open id login to it
so that users can login using open id / gmail / facebook
 
2:07 PM
This should be a good start here - msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh465281.aspx You can also access the Windows Account that users are logged into Windows 8 with and/or Live SDK access msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/xaml/…
Are you a Brony?
 
brony means ?
 
It's an adult male my little pony fan. Re:The unicorn icon. i thought it was my little pony.
 
so
should there be something special at the provider end
what i mean by provider is
the site i am trying to login to
it is not gmail or facebook
Ex
in stackoverflow we can login with google / facebook
so should stackoverflow provide some specific (additional) things
because it is a Metro APP
usually when you do it in Web, you send the user to stackexchange.com/oauth with
querystring parameters
what is the return URL etc...
 
These examples are mostly using the oAuth standard so the site would need to implement oAuth. You Metro app needs to do the same thing the website does. the only things I can think of different is you have to meet the certification guidelines for the Windows Store. That means having a privacy policy...
 
yea
 
2:17 PM
A metro app is going to be making similar network calls to the oAuth
 
but my question is
It is a Web page
how am i going to show that in win8 (XAML) app
 
if you check out that online sample I linked above and view the ScenarioInput1.xaml.cs file
You will see it do stuff like this:
String FacebookURL = "https://www.facebook.com/dialog/oauth?client_id=" + Uri.EscapeDataString(FacebookClientID.Text) + "&redirect_uri=" + Uri.EscapeDataString(FacebookCallbackUrl.Text) + "&scope=read_stream&display=popup&response_type=token";
            System.Uri StartUri = new Uri(FacebookURL);
            System.Uri EndUri = new Uri(FacebookCallbackUrl.Text);
            WebAuthenticationResult WebAuthenticationResult = await WebAuthenticationBroker.AuthenticateAsync(
                                                    WebAuthenticationOptions.None,
                                                    StartUri,
                                                    EndUri);
That's doing the network calls like you could with an AJAX request from a web browser or from some server side code you could do similar.
But overall you follow that same oAuth process.
 
ok
Thanks
I will take a look
I have one more question
Ah Nevermind
 
2:37 PM
Good to see lots of apps joining the contest, 10+ more since yesterday.
 
when is the contest deadline again?
 
Dec 6 everything has to be in the store
then a series of voting/judging phases start
Anybody got other ideas to replace UDP communication between Windows 8 and Windows Phone? I am doing this for Pub Quiz apptivate.ms/apps/43/pub-quiz where people in a bar would use their phones to play along with my game on Windows 8. UDP so far can only be defined as flaky at best.
 
2:58 PM
What are you using UDP for?
Are you using the broadcast functionality?
 
Sending messages between the phone and windows 8 to represent commands from the players.
 
I would say use TCP for that.
UDP tends to get blocked more often than TCP on firewalls/routers.
 
It's weird sometimes it all works, sometimes nothing works, sometimes the phones send to 8, and 8 doesn't hear them, sometimes if i reset my router it's good, sometimes it's not. totally unreliable
 
If you google reliable UDP, you get all sorts of results that tell you that UDP is notoriously unreliable. I think it is great for a broadcast, but for everything else, use TCP
 
Will check out TCP. I see a bunch of libraries like Lidgren to make UDP reliable but none of them have .NETcore versions available... I'm seeing Azure Mobile Services is available now for Windows Phone, maybe I'll investigate that route too. I just didn't want to set up a server to manage that traffic, I had used UDP before in game that had more action, for the trivia quiz it could probably stand the latency.
I'm amazed at just how unreliable, but maybe it's my router. From what I've seen they might as well through UDP in the trash! :)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:30 PM
Any Windows Phone developers in the house? I have 2 spare access codes for dvlup.com
 
JMK
4:45 PM
@SoftwareDeveloper I would take one of the access codes off your hands if you didn't mind!
 
4:55 PM
U still here now @jmk
 
@SoftwareDeveloper Is this project only available for US & Canada?
 
I'm not sure.
Yes it looks like US and Canada only.
 
mvp
5:11 PM
any winjs devs here? how do you handle network connectivity for a navigation app that has multiple pages - stackoverflow.com/q/13365307/1767109 ? are they any samples?
 
5:36 PM
Question : Is there anything new for Kinect APIs/Integration with Win8 ??
 
hooray, i finally didn't miss it for once
is the dev chat starting in here in 15 minutes?
also happy diwali for anyone who does that
 
you in the right place & time :)
 
@JohnHaugeland you made it!
 
yep celebrating diwali all over India :) thx
 
5:51 PM
@JohnHaugeland Better make a social app. Only 13 in that category
 
I have two almost done.
Also a programmer's editor, a pomodoro todo list, and three games.
Huzzah
Be a lot easier to make money if there were proper subscriptions, though, which is what I'm totally about to nag over
/me prepares the begging mat
 
3 games? How many hands do you have?
 
ALL OF THE HANDS. Most of them in formaldehyde jars
 
@JohnHaugeland i'm not sure our guests today will be able to do anything about policies like that unfortunately
 
abby: you'd be surprised what properly motivated people can do
if they even slightly work in microsoft, they can become heroes internally at work by fixing it for the devs
 
5:56 PM
O hai!
 
Hi
 
i think i'm going to be sad when "someone give me a kidney" falls off the leaderboard
 
huh?
 
needs 7 more stars
 
hi @DorisChen!
 
5:59 PM
Hi, Doris
 
Hi everybody!
 
@DorisChen, why haven't you set an avatar yet?
 
Dvlup.com registration code for us and Canada windows phone developers first one to use it gets it 400d2f80 had a spare :)
 
@SoftwareDeveloper nice nick :)
 
6:01 PM
Thanks! Its my publisher name too
 
@SiPlus I did set a while ago but it doesn't seem to update yet. I will take a look later.
 
Hi Jerry!
 
hi @JerryNixon, welcome back
 
@SiPlus Hi!
@AbbyT.Miller Thanks Abby
 
QUESTION What are current plans on hardware-accelerated graphics in JavaScript-based WinStore apps?
 
6:02 PM
/me casts summon nerd
 
In my opinion, WebGL would be the best choice for graphics
 
Question : Which of the apps do you suggest for starters.. for studying code/design etc?
 
microsoft will not implement webgl
 
SiPlus, wait css3 isn't hardwared accelerated?
 
@SiPlus Isn't <canvas> hardware-accelerated?
 
6:03 PM
If you check every application before accepting it to the store, WebGL is not unsafe at all
 
they feel that the standard is too close to the driver and thus can theoretically open up security holes
 
@ComFreek, I mean 3D graphics
 
polcpp, comfreek: canvas is accelerated but not in the sense of webgl, which is a 3d system (think direct3d)
 
Web-based DirectX would only create a lot of hate and incompatibility, like VML
 
As MS doesn't implement WebGL, we have no choice
 
6:04 PM
@SiPlus Mostof the HTML5, CSS3 feature have hardware acceleration support. All the support for wins 8 will be same as in IE10.
 
there are many software 3d renderers which target canvas which are just fine
 
@SiPlus +1 @DorisChen The current status is that CSS-driven animations are already offloaded to the GPU for processing. Is there something else you are asking?
 
stop being so defeatist; roll up your sleeves, punch the problem in the face, and make it work
 
I meant 3D graphics
 
@SiPlus WebGL is not a HTML5 standard yet from W3C.
 
6:04 PM
canvas seems like it could be slower but unless you're trying to make Call of Duty in Space, it shouldn't really matter :)
 
@JohnHaugeland Microsoft currently has no plan to implement WebGL, yet
 
I know. I already explained why.
It's an exposure problem regarding security.
 
But really, you shouldn't use JavaScript for heavy 3d games. C++ is the best choice here.
 
@JerryNixon So Microsoft's moving a lot of its software to the subscription model, because the subscription model is made of both win and succeed. Subscriptions are critical to developer success, which you will eat 30% of, as is your right. Please help us engage subscriptions. Expiring purchases mean they decide again; it's not the same.
@JerryNixon Can you help make some noise internally about getting subscriptions into our hands? It's really, really important.
 
@Amitd Go to Camp in a Box for windows 8 or go to our training HTML5 wins 8 training for more detail bit.ly/HTML5Wins8Camp
 
6:07 PM
nice thx
 
subscriptions would rock so much. I have a few ideas rolling around that could take advantage of that.
 
QUESTION: Is there any information about standalone Windows 8 distributions for end users?
Not computer-locked
 
i have (huge boring stack of studies) that say subscriptions tend to generate 12-15x the revenue in the long term. this matters to microsoft, who gets a share of that.
 
Canvas, SVG and most of new CSS3 feature all have hardware acceleration support. For a complete list go to IE 10 Developer guide
http://www.ietestdrive.com/Links/DevGuide10.html
 
@JohnHaugeland To be clear to others reading this thread, the Microsoft Commerce Platform for Windows 8 apps allows developers to create purchases that expire - like 1 month subscription. However, there is no auto-renewal. It is the auto-renewal that we are talking about. The question you are asking @JohnHaugeland is what? What are your options? You could re-prompt the user to purchase after the subscription. But that might result in a non-renewal. Right?
 
6:09 PM
It nearly always does.
Prompted renew has an uptake rate of 30% per step.
 
@JerryNixon **QUESTION:** There's the Xbox Music App which can stream music (which you haven't bought yet). But when you're recording the sound (e.g. with SnagIt), the sound quality gets very bet! How can this be achieved on the developer site?
Note: I never wanted to share the recorded part of the music, that was only a test!
 
@JerryNixon Once WebGL becomes the HTML5 standard from W3C, IE will support it.
3
 
So yes, we need (customer-permitted, of course) auto-renew
desperately.
like in a way we can't even explain.
 
@JohnHaugeland If all you want to do is make the team aware that this is a developer desire, they are well aware of it. Fundamentally, the engineering and administrative effort comes from supporting the entire world. It turns out it's a lot of work. Just basic functionality and some advanced funcs are in place, but that was an undertaking. No excuses, just reasons...
 
well if they can start with the us, that'll make a huge number of things that aren't viable today viable
it's quite trivial in the us
 
6:10 PM
@SiPlus Why? You want more than purchasing W8 in a box @ the MS store?
 
@JerryNixon, yes, I want, I see it pointless to buy 2 operating systems if I only need 1
Just a waste of money
 
@ComFreek Well, I apologize. I don't understand the question.
 
@JerryNixon i mean i'm sympathetic that it's probably crazy complicated to support the whole world on auto-renew, but getting just one country would make the business case for the rest of them very, very clear - and help your developer ecosystem thrive, dramatically.
it's the difference between needing 1200 new customers a month or 1200 customers total, ever
 
mvp
question: how do we handle network connectivity for a navigation app that has multiple pages - stackoverflow.com/questions/13365307/… ? are they any samples?
 
@JohnHaugeland Nobody would disagree with you. This is not a statement that Microsoft thinks subscriptions are not a good strategy. It's in the works.
 
6:13 PM
Oh.
 
Hello everyone!
My Surface arrived today. So excited.
 
Then I apologize for misunderstanding. If it's in the works, that's wonderful news.
 
@JerryNixon Simply said, how is it possible to forbid (software based) audio recoding on Windows 8 [NOT RT]? How does the Xbox Music App do that?
 
well that's good to hear about subscriptions. can't wait to see what comes out of that. :)
 
@Akinwale Pro or RT?
 
6:14 PM
@SiPlus Uh... RT. Pro isn't due out for another few months.
 
@JohnHaugeland Don't forget, and I don't apologize for saying this, but there are more than one commerce platforms to choose from out there. Subscription is part of many.
 
@Akinwale Why did you buy a Surface instead of a Pro laptop?
 
QUESTION: Is it possible to interrupt/abort an async call? If so, how can this be achieved?
 
@JerryNixon A one man shop has limited time to spread
@SiPlus pro is expected end-january
 
RT is like a brick to me
 
6:15 PM
@SiPlus Cos I wanted a functional tablet. I already own a laptop which I use for development.
 
I got to go, goodbye
 
@SiPlus its really that bad?
 
lol i love my surface
i don't know what he's talking about
 
JMK
@SoftwareDeveloper Back now, take it the invitations are long gone lol
 
@mvp In XAML I subscribe to the NetworkStatusChanged event in App.xaml.cs and navigate the user to a dedicated page when the network is compromised. Then I navigate them back when the network returns. This seems fine for my apps. If you have a page parameter, you just need a consistent IPage implementation; that's how I do it.
 
6:16 PM
the low screen res is kind of a bummer, but it's not as big a problem as i expected, and everything else about this thing is just amazing (except the launch software, but whatever, that's always a problem)
 
When is the next planned update on developer countries list for the Windows Store?
 
@mvp :I am not clear if this is problem is not using the name pace properly so the the function can't be invoked. Or you may want to try to check the internet in the init method before your page is fully loaded.
 
does the phone OS come with office RT?
 
@HeribertoDelgado yeah seriously, every country should be able to develop by now :|
 
@ComFreek Ah, now I understand. You can't. Developers have wanted this for years, but it is a technical impossibility without some serious unwiring of the operating system. WinRT apps aren't capable of that and, in all reality, neither are desktop apps.
 
6:18 PM
notice he said not rt
 
@HeribertoDelgado This occurs every week.
 
@JerryNixon Yes, it's the same situation with pictures on websites. But how does the Xbox Music app do this? I'm sure the sound wasn't as clear as from my speakers the last time I checked that behaviour.
It could also be the compression format I took.... Yes
 
@Jason Wrong chat, brother. But, yes. The mobile version though.
@JohnHaugeland Well, not "every". Better said, "most".
 
Every country not excluded by treaty
 
ahh, was just looking at the api cross section and wondering
 
6:22 PM
@Akinwale Have you looked into
msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/br229787.aspx it has more detail about handle time-out, cancel, etc
 
I have a tricky css3 question: What is lighter? A long animation or a short repeating animation?
 
@ComFreek I am back to not being sure what you mean. You might be giving too much credit to the app. Having said that, just remember that c/Program Files/WindowsApps/... has the source for all your installed apps, including the JS-written Xbox Music app. I have opened it. You can, too.
 
What i've seen in mobile safari is that restarting small css animations can freeze the app from time to time, i have no idea how this works on the ie10 engine that metro apps use
 
@JohnHaugeland Is Antarctica a country?
 
Are there possibly any options that will become available for developers to use the Xbox Live platform without having to work with a publisher? I see the Xbox Live Indie Games program but I'm not sure if that also applies to Windows 8 games.
 
6:24 PM
@JohnHaugeland Or is it just a region?
 
question: continuing my question from last week, i'm using WinJS.xhr function and I'm looking for a way for a JSONP response to be always cached. I've tried this but it does not work - WinJS.xhr({
url: URL_that_returns_JSONP_response,
headers: {
"Cache-control": "Public" ....
more details here - http://stackoverflow.com/q/13331634/325251
 
Jerry: no, but the bases there are under their national status, just like US military bases in germany still count as Murica
 
@JerryNixon I can't open it due to security reasons on NTFS. And I don't want to break my system by changing the owner, etc. ;)
 
Jerry: and I rather doubt anyone out in the wilderness in Antarctica is really that worried about filing apps in MS store. I'm more annoyed that nobody in Costa Rica can.
 
@ComFreek Just take ownership, nothing will break. Not a NTFS issue. Everyone has to do that in order to open the folder. You're fine.
@JohnHaugeland Murica :)
 
6:26 PM
Mike Parks' question about XBox Live as an indie is also very interesting
MURICA
 
@PolCPP Which CSS3 feature are you talking about?
 
/me gets on his fat-guy scooter with his double-mayo bacon roll and rides down to the fireworks factory
polcpp: the ie10 metro/desktop animator engine is smoother than an airbrushed cheek
 
@DorisChen css animations. I'm using them on some background animations and i noticed that under an ipad 3 when the animation restarts it can even freeze up
 
@JohnHaugeland There are always reasons for things. The goal of the Store team is universal coverage. They aren't stopping. And the Store PM, as a matter of interest, told me he has a few open bugs from Antarctica around inability to create a developer account because of address formatting! Ha! Penguins probably.
 
@JerryNixon Okay, just found ZuneMusic1.****, pretty big project!
 
6:28 PM
@JohnHaugeland i know, chrome is a snail next to ie10
 
If IE10's print stuff came up to standard, i would be such a happy badger
nobody's got it even close to right (opera's the only browser that's even given it a half-hearted try)
 
@ComFreek Pretty big, yeah. Takes a while to push through it. Some of the components are WinRT C++CX components, too. Just a warning. When big apps are written in JS, they are almost always back-ended with C# or CX. Nobody wants 100,000 lines of JavaScript.
 
lol what?
someone doesn't know what idiocy developers engage in
i've seen seven figure js apps, screw six figure
hello generated code
 
@JohnHaugeland Nobody brags about that much JS
@JohnHaugeland More like a confession
 
brags? no. admits in twelve step programs, though? war stories?
 
6:31 PM
@PolCPP yes, it's supported in ie10. Try this css 3 animation demo in ie10 ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Graphics/hands-on-css3/…
 
"when i was your age i had to work in rot13 cyrillic cobol"
 
@JerryNixon Therefore Microsoft has invented TypeScript but C++CX has its advantages, too. As I can see, Windows 8 keeps the old versions (after updates) of all apps. Why?
 
@JohnHaugeland I minify all mine. My apps are just one line.
 
line count is in \n count in the way that weight is in the number of digits following your unit.
i want to talk about mike parks' xbox question
 
@ComFreek Good question. I wondered the same thing. I don't know why. It might have to do with purchases or something. Really, I don't know.
 
6:33 PM
@JerryNixon what are your thoughts on XNA missing from Windows 8. What do you think about MonoGame filling in the gap?
 
@ComFreek TypeScript makes me tired just thinking about it
 
@mvark you know, you could, instead of caching the request, cache the internal call. wrap the call in another function which checks if you've made the call before, and just store the result by hand. obviate the whole problem.
 
@DorisChen Any corresponding methods in C#?
 
@DorisChen i know they work, i meant whats better performance wise repeating them in short time or at long time ranges?
 
@JerryNixon You're coming from C++CX/XAML, right? I just wanted to start developing a new Windows 8 app using TS.
 
6:34 PM
@jonathanpeppers My thoughts on XNA are this. XNA is not included natively in the Windows 8 framework. But it doesn't matter. It is fully implemented in MonoGame. At the same time, Unity is not supported natively in Windows 8, but it is fully implemented in the Unity SDK. XNA is not "included" but it is fully supported. I play Armed. It's XNA.
 
typescript is cute and largely unnecessary
it's like coffeescript: people have misunderstood its importance dramatically
 
@JerryNixon do you know if Windows Phone 8 will be the same way?
 
Hello.
 
@Akinwale I am not that familiar with C#. @JerryNixon do you have a good answer?
 
@jonathanpeppers Hmm, I have forgotten. A lot like you have forgotten that this is a Windows 8 chat and not a Windows Phone 8 chat ;)
@jonathanpeppers PS: I really have forgotten
 
6:36 PM
@JerryNixon but still afaik monogame needs xna to compile things to the content pipeline right?
 
@JerryNixon have you heard of Draw a Stickman: EPIC? apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en-US/app/draw-a-stickman-epic-free/…
 
I have a question regarding C#/XAML animations. Can one of you please help me? :)
 
@PolCPP For performance question, the best way is too test on your environment as the bench mark won't apply that well to yours. Your milleague is different.
 
@JohnHaugeland where do I store the cached data from JSONP response? jQuery has a convenient cached:true property...wish there was a way to do it with winjs.xhr as well
 
@PolCPP MonoGame is a standalone framework
 
6:36 PM
jonathan: developer chat is not a good time to promote your application.
mvark: ... in an array?
I think :6207508 is a question that really should get addressed, and maybe got overlooked.
 
@jonathanpeppers My kids like it. FAR more stable on W8 than on the web!
 
oh, it doesn't link from that.
 
@MarvinHäuser Possibly
@MarvinHäuser Go ahead and ask
 
@JerryNixon regarding our app. We are having an issue with background music playing the same time as the music in our app.
 
Is there a simple (or a hard) way to animate the increasing or decreasing of a grid's height?
 
6:38 PM
@JohnHaugeland the :3849248 syntax has to go at the front of your message, but @name notation can go anywhere in your message
 
@JerryNixon no one has been able to get us a good fix for it since are using MonoGame - ARMED! has the same problem
 
@AbbyT.Miller I'm actually trying to link to the comment, not the person. Not to respond to it - to link to it, to draw other peoples' attention to it. Because it's an important question that got overlooked.
 
@JohnHaugeland pick up its permalink by clicking the arrow on the left of the message, then paste that permalink into its own chat message - it'll onebox
 
@JohnHaugeland Can you copy/paste it for me? I don't know them by number.
 
Testing login...
 
6:39 PM
Are there possibly any options that will become available for developers to use the Xbox Live platform without having to work with a publisher? I see the Xbox Live Indie Games program but I'm not sure if that also applies to Windows 8 games.
 
Ok, I'm not a guest
Hi again
 
re: @MikeParks
 
@mvark jQuery is supported on Wins 8 development. If you feel jQuery is working better, try it. Just be careful about the difference in web context (if you need to access external scripts from web) and local context (which you can access WinRT)
 
@DorisChen thanks i'll try to give it a run adding extra workload to my machine
 
@MarvinHäuser Yes, so long as you are not attempting to do this by manipulating the Margin which cannot be animated. I assume you mean <Grid /> and not <GridView /> right?
 
6:40 PM
QUESTION: Will audio/wav in <audio> ever be supported by IE?
 
@JerryNixon You're right ;)
 
@PolCPP Yes, try that demo link I sent earlier on your device and see which option or a set of configuration works better.
 
This is the only fast way to synthesize audio programmatically
 
@JerryNixon I tried it by using a DoubleAnimation, but it didn't do anything.
 
@MarvinHäuser This is a common problem with XAML developers who are used to animations. There was a fundamental (though tiny) change to animations in WinRT.
 
6:43 PM
Chrome, Fox and Opera support .wav
 
@MarvinHäuser Since animations are now hardware accelerated, developers can use them with a seonse of assurance that they will not take up CPU cycles
 
@DorisChen I've been trying to get my xhr work natively as far as possible but I think if there is no way to cache...I will try jQuery.ajax.... will jQuery.ajax work in winjs?
 
@SiPlus IE10 will focus on supporting HTML5 audio format in W3C standard. You don't want any plugin any more in the brower, right? It's the one of the fundamental thing to have standard HTML5/CSS supported by all browers make it cross browsers.
 
@JerryNixon Alright - is there an entry about the new "System" in the MSDN library or anywhere else? Thanks!
 
@MarvinHäuser However, not all animations can actually be offloaded to the GPU because their implication on the page layout is not deterministic. By which I mean your code could cause the resulting UI to shift based on internal logic. In these cases, the framework will cause the CPU to do the animations instead.
@MarvinHäuser Let me keep explaining
 
6:44 PM
@DorisChen, I meant .wav audio files
 
@JerryNixon Sure...
 
IE doesn't support them atm
 
@mvark Like I said, if think jQuery web approach works better, use it. jQuery can work with WinJS if you don't keep jQuery library local and don't do CDN, etc.
 
@MarvinHäuser So since some animations are GPU accelerated and some are not the developer could add animations that inadvertently kill the CPU performance and therefore battery and even memory footprints.
 
@JerryNixon now that you say that, is there a way to check on the workload of the current app (js)
i mean... from the app itself
 
6:46 PM
@SiPlus .wav is not supported by HTML5 audio so it doesn't make sense to me to support it if HTML5, cross browser is the main goal to achieve for web develoeprs.
 
@MarvinHäuser The framework has solved this problem by detecting indeterminate animations (like changing the height of a <Grid />) and forcing the developer to set "EnableDependantAnimation=true" on the animation itself. As a type of acknowledgement to the framework that the developer understands the animation has a potential neg effect to the system.
@MarvinHäuser Problem solved
 
uh, what?
 
@PolCPP If only there were
 
question: I've found it easier to use a listview rather than a gridview for my one page app.... will this UI pass through certification - i.imgur.com/YJOi1.png
 
@DorisChen 1) yes, it is
@DorisChen 2) the spec is clearly written to be open to any formats the browser chooses to implement
 
6:47 PM
@MarvinHäuser I explain this more here blog.jerrynixon.com/2012/06/windows-8-animated-pie-slice.html
 
@DorisChen 3) wav has been part of html far, far longer than <audio> has, and has been in mime since before html was a thing; if this was about standards primacy this would be the wrongest possible choice
@DorisChen 4) standards are a baseline for inclusion, not a topline
 
@JohnHaugeland I will need to double check on it.
 
@mvark PLEASE explain. These controls are basically identical. Why is ListView easier than GridView? (and, yes, that UI will pass just fine)
 
@JerryNixon Alright, thanks so far. So, this animations could cause some sort of trouble? I saw that animation in Windows itself (Start Screen), but I guess the Windows developers did it a little different, right?
 
@DorisChen 5) baseline standards should never be used as an excuse to decline to make the trivial connection between codecs that your developers want; it's like five lines of code, and there's no reason whatsoever not to do it other than "i have chosen to say no"
 
6:48 PM
@MarvinHäuser On the start screen? You mean the pinch zoom effect?
 
@DorisChen 6) as far as the w3c is concerned, in their repeated statements, every supportable codec should be supported, and the only valid reason for exclusion is legal control (eg patent problems)
 
@JohnHaugeland I see. So it's optional for browser to pick, right? It's not a required standard for HTML5 audio.
 
@mvark Just because that UI will pass, by the way, doesn't mean it is very good. You need to remind yourself that default scrolling in Windows 8 apps is horizontal. Your app clearly will not scroll horizontally. You can break the UI guidelines if you want, but you should have a good reason if you do that.
 
@JerryNixon Listview can be "easier" (i.e. more suitable) for a particular implementation than GridView as its items can size to their contents. GridView items, for obvious reasons, cannot. This makes ListView more attractive if that behavior is desired.
 
@JerryNixon No, I talk about the App Bar. When I open the app bar, it has a minor height. When I now select any item, ist size gets increased, since one or two button's texts (like "unpin") are too long to fit into the small App Bar. Then, ist size increases with an animation.
 
6:51 PM
the correct way of looking at it is "it's two lines of code to wire up the mime type to the codec that has existed since windows 2 and our developers want it desperately," not "i continue to look at the absence of a baseline requirement as a valid reason for exclusion even though the authors of said requirement say that's not how this actually works"
 
* its size - Auto-correction ;)
 
you might as well say the reason you won't paint your cars blue is that the law doesn't require you to
it's just not a meaningful worldview
 
@SandraWalters You may already know this but the GridView can also resize its content (I explain this here blog.jerrynixon.com/2012/08/windows-8-beauty-tip-using.html) using the VariableSizedWrapGrid.
 
your developers need this, the standard says you should be doing this, and you're looking for excuses to get out of it :|
 
@JohnHaugeland If you have strong opinion about supporting .wav, please send feedback to IE team. In my opinion, if supporting any format will require additional plugin, it's not a approach from user friendly perspective.
 
6:52 PM
i actually don't have a strong opinion about it
 
@JerryNixon Yes, but only to certain predefined sizes, which must be multiples of a baseline size.
 
but quite a few people do
 
@MarvinHäuser Mine does not do that. Strange.
 
what i have a strong opinion about is someone abusing the nature of standards as an excuse mechanism
 
6:53 PM
@JerryNixon Yeah, because I use a german version of Windows ;)
May should have mentioned that before...
 
@JohnHaugeland You see my view already so my best suggestion is to send the feedback to IE team.
 
mmm.
"thanks for your help."
 
@JerryNixon if it is a listview i'll have to write lesser code...including code to check for network connectivity as I have to check just one page.....i do agree that the gridview gives a better look
 
On wav files: @DorisChen, wav is raw, so it's the most cross-browser and the best for realtime synthesizing
 
There's actually a realtime synth standard coming out of the w3c
it's just not to implementable status yet
 
6:55 PM
@SiPlus See your point. Thanks.
 
Are there possibly any options that will become available for developers to use the Xbox Live platform without having to work with a publisher? I see the Xbox Live Indie Games program but I'm not sure if that also applies to Windows 8 games.
 
@SandraWalters No. No no no. You are using the ListView to dynamically resize only the height of the item. This can be done on the GridView just the same. It does not have to be based on a preset size (yes it does) just set the default preset size to "1" and then you can have all the variable sizes you want without the ListView compromise. I want to call your approach the "ListView Compromise" I like that. It settles for vertical scrolling unnecessarily.
 
@JohnHaugeland You are welcome
 
@JerryNixon I see that it's taking more time to manage contracts & other cert requirements than it is to build the actual functionality
 
6:56 PM
@SandraWalters Of could you must infer the correct height in order for this to work. I am not pretending it is as easy as the ListView. Just that it si possible.
 
Question: What did the Mozilla's cake taste like?
 
@mvark There are a lot.
@MikeParks No
 
@JohnHaugeland I am not sure if I understand what you mean but I would like to focus this chat on technical qestion. Thanks.
 
(oy vey)
 
@JerryNixon Inferring the "correct" height?????
 
6:57 PM
@MikeParks So I am not so short about it. Let me just say that I have not heard any movement in this area. The current policy is pretty clear.
 
Please explain what you mean by this.
 
@SandraWalters Sure, you can change the height based on the type being bound, based on the content in the model, or based on the ordinal position in the list. There are endless ways to do this. In the end, you can determine what the height should be and set that as the VaraibleSizedWrapGrid.RowHeight and get the same effect as in the ListView but still using the appropriate GridView.
 
@DorisChen Just so you know, I see you keep repeating the claim that if WebGL becomes a standard, IE will implement it. This is the third occasion on which I'm reminding you that that's not actually true: the IE team drew a hard line in the sand and said that it would not be implemented.
Because they feel that it is a security threat.
 
@SandraWalters RowSpan, I mean
 
Request: Please fix dashed/dotted borders
 
06:00 - 19:0019:00 - 21:00

« first day (47 days earlier)      last day (219 days later) »