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4:00 PM
Hello @Gordon
Though I am not donut anymore.
 
o_O: "Refactoring Legacy Applications Using CakePHP"
I can only tell: Bad Idea.
 
lol
 
hate hate hate
hate hate hate hate
 
@Funkatron everything okay?
 
4:01 PM
always so much hate in here!
then again, it's PHP
 
@Funkatron: I'm enjoying the podcast. Just it's a little odd for the format since they are so long and kind of wander (different topics)
 
yep
 
@Robik Hey donut!
 
that's on purpose 8)
 
@NikiC I'm Robik :|
 
4:02 PM
oshit it's @Funkatron :D
 
Fair enough. Odd in that sense (not like most podcasts), not odd as in content
 
Donut you changed your name?
 
@Robik No you'r not. Don't pretend to be.
 
Did it finally work?
 
I restored it.
@hakre Used super secret hack.
 
4:03 PM
right. I like stuff like that, so we do stuff like that.
rather, we.
 
@Robik You must tell me another time ;)
 
Yeah, I can see that...
 
how you folks doin?
 
pretty good..
and yourself?
 
Today I got a +200 bounty which came by surprise.
 
4:08 PM
@Funkatron You the micro php guy?
 
@ircmaxell I've been pretty happy with the devology potcasts I've listened to so far
 
@NikiC That made me chuckle
 
I was thinking of implementing a way to keep session encryption IV and Key in session itself, my mind throw an infiniteLoopException.
 
@BoltClock Why? I like tagging people :P
 
4:11 PM
You forced me to it.
 
High profile names and really interesting content
 
@NikiC yup
@edorian I'll put them on my list
 
@edorian funny, a podcast about accessibility and no transcript given.
 
@NikiC: yep, I'm that idiot
 
4:13 PM
I'm a bit undecided, if macro won't be favorable over micro in terms of getting things done.
 
huh?
 
@hakre I didn't listen to that episode. Robert Martin, Jeff Sutherland, the Poppendiecks, Jurgen Appelo
Ah, that book is what is talked about in the podcast @Funkatron linked
I've been looking to get that anyways :)
 
@edorian which book?
 
@Funkatron :)
 
Even so I'd be pretty scared to write a whole book in markdown
 
4:16 PM
@edorian Kindle or dead-tree format ?
 
I think Chris' experience was pretty good with Leanpub
 
@edorian The only thing that scares me about it would be dealing with references (chapter and annotation references)
 
Footnotes, Bib refs
 
yeah, it doesn't handle that sort of thing. I'm interested to know how that works out. it may be that the Leanpub stuff does that all for you. maybe you break apart the book into chapter per file? not sure
 
@ircmaxell Check this one out tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2898
 
4:17 PM
if they use markdown plus, it will handle footnotes
 
@ircmaxell wait... markdown is not html.
 
I see, didn't know that addition
 
@OmeidHerat what about it?
 
@ircmaxell Ah, for a sec I thought of markdown as HTML.
then I thought it's not that hard.
 
4:19 PM
but yeah, I dunno all the details. I'd ask chartjes
 
@ircmaxell I was talking about it's format.
 
Oh
 
@ircmaxell: Is your lib peer-reviewed?
 
@hakre Not officially, but I have had several experts review it and comment (some changes were applied from it)
 
4:21 PM
PEER REVIEW
 
@Gordon I would think so
 
@ircmaxell the generic one doesnt tell the proper mime type though and the OP also asked whether s/he has to save the data on the server first. that's what made me doubt.
 
@Gordon Seems like it.
 
@hakre I haven't finished it. The encryption part needs some work. The random number generator and password system both work fully
Ah ok
 
@ircmaxell Just by accident, you don't have a PHP implementation to generate session id's that are aligned with how PHP does this?
 
4:24 PM
@hakre when you say aligned with how PHP does it?
 
@Funkatron I'm really looking forward to this book. Writing testable code and test suite organizations in big projects are under explained topics (which I have sort of strong opinions about)
 
@edorian: agreed, I think it fills a hole in the info out there.
 
@ircmaxell I've seen the PHP src doesn't offer a PHP function to generate a new id (if I only need a new id, not a new session).
 
@BoltClock see my response to ircmaxell please. im torn :)
 
Aligned would be to get something equally good (or better) in the format PHP offers so it's compatible.
 
4:26 PM
I mean.. with phpunit 3.5 / 3.6 test suite organization shouldn't be all that hard anymore but people, especially in corps, get it wrong a lot
 
@Gordon yeah that's true...
 
@hakre You can just use ->generateString($length) since it'll be base64... (where length is the id youneed)
 
Hey there, Funkatron told me some peeps in here were asking about writing books in Markdown
 
especially because nobody tells you where to put non-test-files, if you want abstract test cases / your own assertions and so on
 
@BoltClock i could move my answer to that one to the other one though and make it generic
 
4:27 PM
Anyone ever installed the vulcan logic disassembler?
 
@GrumpyCanuck some were concerned about footnotes and chapters.
nice you join in.
 
@CharlieSomerville Welcome :)
 
Hey there @GrumpyCanuck
 
@NikiC sounds like a weapon from star trek
 
What book you people talking about?
@Gordon No, it's the thing that dumps the opcodes ^^
 
I found it really easy to do up the book using leanpub's tools
 
@Funkatron applauds the "so real languages" statement :)
 
@NikiC "Capt Picard, whats wrong with Data, hes completely irrational today." "Oh yeah, those dumb Vulcan shot him with their logic disassembler."
 
hahaha
 
@Gordon lol
 
4:29 PM
@edorian: we kid because we love
 
@hakre it's actually really easy to divide stuff up into chapters and it does footnotes right out of the box
 
this guy @GrumpyCanuck
 
it did help that I wrote the book as text before I tried using leanpub. I could imagine converting from Word to markdown to be...problematic
 
It's the kind of self deprecating (right phrase?) humor I've grown very found of
and that the PHP community seems to have embraced
 
And about the graphics, you just do ASCII-art or you need to base64 encode images by hand? ^^
 
4:30 PM
<<(code/sample1.rb)
So there is a sample book here: leanpub.com/faq Looks quite nice
 
@hakre by hand?
 
My blog (self-promoting whore link littlehart.net/atthekeyboard) is also written in Markdown using Octopress + Jekyll so it was a very easy fit
 
octomom
 
Hm, the sample doesn't show how to reference chapters
 
@Funkatron is right that in leanpub you put each chapter as a seperate file.
 
4:32 PM
@GrumpyCanuck Added to the reader
 
@edorian I didn't see either where you could provide a reference to a chapter
 
Hm.. and Bibliography seems complicated to do without a book database
But well. For a 50 page book that doesn't quote +20 papers it seems manageable
 
@Funkatron: I think the podcast explanation of the microphp part gets the point across a lot better. Based on this, I wouldn't have written my blog post at all...
 
And the site seems quite nice.. I've seen it a week or so ago due to laurna retweeting it
 
Originally I was using asciidoc and then a tool chain to convert to docbook and then from docbook to other formats. If you need all that other stuff I recommend investing the time in learning docbook
@ircmaxell you almost made Ed cry while we were recording
 
4:36 PM
@ircmaxell: only took an hour and 45m of me rambling!
:sniff:
 
:-( I really didn't mean that as an ad hominem...
 
Yeah I already can write docbook but I'm always looking for options.. and I like markdown
It's RST but nice to look at
 
@ircmaxell it's okay, I yell at @Funkatron before we record it so I'm more mellow during it
 
lol
 
currently crawling through Coplien - dci vision
 
@ircmaxell: I didn't take it like that 8D
 
Wait, huh? I'm confused
 
anyone here going to CodeMash this week?
 
too far for a quick trip... (New York City here)
 
4:41 PM
I just cried a little
 
Wrong continent :)
 
@Funkatron: I think one of your arguments can be turned around though. You commented that the more code you have, the more you maintain and worry about. That's true. One could argue it's easier to manage one large package than 4 small ones
 
could be
 
And if I make it across the pond this year it will definitely be for ConFoo
 
@edorian let me know, so I'll show up
 
4:43 PM
In the end I can only speak for my brain. it works better when stuff is broken out like that
 
@Funkatron I definitely see your arguments and points (and agree with most of them, as explained in the podcast)
 
@ircmaxell Chances are slim. If one of my new colleagues will fly over there I'll ask to join. If not I guess I won't be able to make it. So chances are: Nope
 
@edorian yeah, that's what I thought
 
Currently at 38 minutes of the podcast and I'm still nodding
Hmm. I don't see any issue with one-class-per-file, apart from that, still nodding
 
I wanted to really rag on Ed about that but he kept talking and I couldn't get a word in edgewise. STANDARDS, MISTER FINKLER, ARE WHAT SEPARATES US FROM ANIMALS
 
4:48 PM
hahahah
 
lol
 
hey I know this isnt awordpress chat
but I dont use wordpress often and not sure where else to go, I am just wanting to know how wto modify css within wordpress admin section
 
@edorian: My issue was with situations where you're making several exception classes that have almost/no content, and you break each one out into its own file. Personally, that makes things harder for me to track
 
I want to modify the raw css, not install a theme or change a theme
is it possible within wotrdpress?
 
@JohnMerlino: I bet the Wordpress Codex could tell you about that
 
4:51 PM
@Funkatron I don't see why having all exceptions in one file per module would help me. And "one class per file" kinda works out quite well and I don't mind having 4 line files I guess
 
@Funkatron: I think my issue there is people creating new exceptions for no other reason than it's a different package...
 
What I don't really see is that a project having "too multiple files" is an issue. For me its what it exposes. I don't really care about my /vendor/ dir having 100k files
 
@ircmaxell: that too
 
I mean.. It would be really nice if libs would be shipped as PHARs
instead of having all the psr ... "stuff"
But that was rejected because "php is not java"
 
@edorian: to each his own. I find it more difficult to parse.
 
4:52 PM
pronounces psr very quickly three times in a row #compulsory
 
@Funkatron I don't see when you'd need to find the definition of an exception class of a lib? :)
Or i don't get what you mean by "parse"
 
@everyone: Good day to you all.. I just want to ask what is the most effective way to validate email.. I came across filter_var($emailAddressString, FILTER_VALIDATE_EMAIL); but I'd like to ask you guys if you have better/more effective ways to validate emails, like using regular expressions or whatnot.. Thank you for your time..
 
@edorian: I mean, it makes it harder for me to follow the code, in general. My brain parsing it.
 
But you never see the code that defines the exception anyways.. not matter where they are placed?
 
@Nonym for what I know, that is the best thing you can get, matching all valid email address according RFC-3696 and only those valid ones are something not quit simple.
 
5:00 PM
I mean like.. an exception is an exception. I can see your general point but I relly don't get that case. But It's quite interesting (hence me asking)
> There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and benchmarks.
 
@edorian: I am not sure how else to explain it. sorry!
 
Nice quote @rlemon
 
@Nonym to give you an idea why you do not want to use regex for that: ex-parrot.com/pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html
 
@Funkatron Don't worry about it. Thanks for trying :)
 
8D
 
5:04 PM
@GrumpyCanuck What do you suggest for PHPUnit test suite organization?
 
@edorian huh?
 
@rlemon The quote from your profile
 
SO / Careers ?
lol
 
@JohnMerlino wordpress.stackexchange.com - they have a chat room, too
 
@Gordon Millennia from now, civilizations will unearth this, and probably think they're some sort of ancient grocery list.
 
5:06 PM
@OmeidHerat , @Gordon : Thank you.. I'll stick with filter_var() then..
@Gordon : Thank you for the link as well. That's one long pattern. :|
 
@Funkatron: I think I'm going to have to do a new blog post as a followup to my original one...
 
@Nonym its outdated though. i just gave it for fun :)
 
@Gordon But there isn't a new RFC for emails, or is there ?
 
@OmeidHerat 5322?
> The Internet email message format is defined in RFC 5322, with multi-media content attachments being defined in RFC 2045 through RFC 2049, collectively called Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions or MIME. Prior to the introduction of RFC 2822 in 2001, the format described by RFC 822 was the standard for Internet email for nearly 20 years. RFC 822 was published in 1982 and based on the earlier RFC 733 for the ARPANET
 
@ircmaxell: cool, I'll link to it fo sho
 
5:12 PM
:-D
 
If you think "People are to stupid to use frameworks" suggesting that they write their own stuff doesn't really work out.. been there seen that. It's just a lot more crap copied from all over the web :)
 
@Gordon Interesting stuff, I might give a try to write a regex for that.
 
hi all
 
@OmeidHerat what for?
 
5:17 PM
Email, based on the new specification. of course just for fun.
 
@edorian: who was suggesting that?
 
@edorian listen on... That's covered
 
Just a thought that came in relation to listing to you. Not meaning to quote
hm @GrumpyCanuck seems to have disappeared. Well.. I see what he thinks about phpunit soon enough :P
 
@edorian: I'd hit him up on Twitter as chartjes. otherwise, yeah, I am in no way suggesting that (hope it doesn't come off that I am).
 
Hehe "rasmus was sympathetic" :)
 
5:26 PM
:-D
 
I'm not sure thats a good thing though :D (joking of course)
 
Was that just a reference to Zawinski's Law?
> Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.
 
Apart from a global, is there any way that an object's methods can share a variable? Or is there a way to imply $this->variableNameYouAskedFor ?
 
What do you mean by "A method can share a variable" ?
 
5:35 PM
in b4 with ($this)
 
I've got a "dispatcher" part of the application that passes data structures only when they are needed, and that's done by passing them in as parameters
so for instance, to access the dom at a point where the framework allows you to, you use $dom["h1#name"]->innerText = "Greg"; but I want to achieve the same functionality without passing in the $dom variable.
 
damn i need a bookmarklet for posting cv requests
 
lol
 
@Gordon you need a bookmarklet to "post to chat when voting to close"
 
@edorian yes
although that would be high volume then ;)
 
5:41 PM
> Gordon: I've just voted to close:
Put your activity feed rss in the chat? :)
 
@edorian awesome idea
 
actually, just write a greasemonkey script to bind to the close vote dialog on so.com, which then generates and posts a message to the chat for it...
that way it's automatic
 
@ircmaxell greasemonkey :(
 
userscript?
 
@Gordon whats wrong with banana flinging?
 
5:43 PM
@Neal its the name. its greasy. i dont wanna touch it.
 
@Gordon but it is useful.
 
@Neal but greasy
 
@Gordon just wear gloves when using it
 
actually i cannot remember why i dont like it
 
@Gordon :-P
 
5:49 PM
i suggested to use a Singleton at stackoverflow.com/questions/8792713/…
 
@Gordon lol
 
@BoltClock ur bak!
 
@Gordon wow
 
6:05 PM
@Gordon Respect. But well, no need to throw test-ability for your own plugin over the border: stackoverflow.com/q/8688738/367456 ;)
 
@hakre nice answer :)
 
@Gordon thx.
 
I'm out!
ttyl
 
have a good one
@Gordon oO
 
I'm trying to roll my own extremely basic SMTP function with PHP, mostly just for fun. But I'm getting an error message that I don't understand; googling hasn't really revealed much.
 
6:14 PM
@hakre +1
 
I'm using 5.3.6 on Win7, I'm connecting to Gmail with SSL.
 
doing something for fun and then getting error messages sucks.
 
@sdleihssirhc Your first problem is using Win ;)
What is your error ?
 
@OmeidHerat no kidding :P
I'm using fsockopen and fwrite
And I'm using fgets to display the response.
About halfway through the connection, I get the following:
<b>Warning</b>: fwrite() [<a href='function.fwrite'>function.fwrite</a>]: SSL operation failed with code 1. OpenSSL Error messages:
error:140D00CF:SSL routines:SSL_write:protocol is shutdown in <b>~~~</b> on line <b>23</b><br />
It appears to work fine until I send the From email...
 
1
A: CodeIgniter: SSL/TLS SMTP Auth Email from PHPMailer Code

hakreHow to diagnose OpenSSL errors: Look at the error message: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:func(143):reason(267) Take the reason code (267) and determine the error: grep 267 /usr/include/openssl/ssl.h /usr/include/openssl/ssl.h:#define SSL_R_WRONG_VERSION_NUMBER 267 Now goog...

That explains how you can troubleshoot openssl error messages.
even in case you don't find anything with google.
 
6:18 PM
Ah, thank you.
That's really all I need.
I'd rather learn how to fish than eat for a day :P
 
hello everyone
im scared to try and install this mod_auth_token package onto my server
but here goes
 
@JMRboosties testdrive in a virtual box then
 
i dont know if i have that capability
on the server, i mean
 
not confident he is
 
i suppose i could install apache on my local machine
 
6:24 PM
@JMRboosties virtualbox.org
 
@Gordon indeed. im reading the install guide that came with it
 
Hey, there's a topic for a blog post...
 
oh thats an actual thing huh? reading the site now
 
@JMRboosties replicate your server environment in a virtual box and then you can try the install there first. if it breaks, you just broke your virtual box and not the real thing
PECL sucks
18
 
@Gordon will do, thanks
so i just download virtual box for windows then configure my server settings inside the application, sounds good
 
6:29 PM
@JMRboosties you need to have an actual server image
 
Okay, well, I'm back.
I tried to look up the error code, but ran into some difficulty.
 
@Gordon a server image?
 
All I have is a hexadecimal code; there's no func or reason.
I found this OpenSSL page...
...which has the following:
> If there is no text string registered for the given error code, the error string will contain the numeric code.
Is that at all relevant?
 
25
Q: Creating a virtual machine in VirtualBox from a physical one

DHamrickIs there any way to create a virtual machine that you can use in VirtualBox from a physical installation that you have? For instance, if I have Windows XP installed on a physical computer and want to have a virtual version of that machine on a different computer. This would save a ton of time by ...

alternative is you replicate your server environment by hand. then you just need some iso of your server distro to start with and mount that to the virtual box
 
ugh
sounds messy
 
6:33 PM
Everywhere I see, base64_en/decode() is trimed why is that ?
 
@OmeidHerat say what?
 
I don't see white-spaces, so I say what ?
 
@OmeidHerat white space won't come out, it's not in the character domain for base64
 
So it's meaningless to do trim(base64_encode(......));
 
without a second parameter, yes
 
6:37 PM
my server isnt too complicated, i just want a way to check to make sure im doing it right. could i just insert the parameters for my server (OS, size, etc) and just see if the commands work?
 
@JMRboosties you still need an iso image of some sort then. virtual box is really just a virtual computer. you define the memory and cpu and hd space and then you can install something on it
 
right, i understand
 
Do you need to compile the module on your server?
Or other way round: do you need to compile the server for that module?
If not, you can try the module and if it breaks, disable it.
the most important part is that you document what you do and that you keep backups of the configuration files.
 
Wow, "sucks" nice combo.
 
6:55 PM
@Donut About the languages things, I just saw them. So I have quote this, I just can't help.
'There is languages that people bitch about them, and there is ones that no one uses.'
 
Hey, I am trying to pass a variable from one page to another with jQuery loader. The previous person working on this seemed to try and pass it by creating a url with a $_GET variable and loading that. But since the page doesn't reload...php doesn't run. is it even possible to do?
 
@hakre its a 5 step process to compile the module on the server
im pretty sure i need to compile the server for the module
according to the instructions
 
@Robik!
@Donut ^
 
7:11 PM
nikic.github.com/2012/01/09/… Still not sure whether it was worth wasting my time writing that
 
@ircmaxell Seen that. It's old though and the second part is wrong nowadays because of that.
 
@ircmaxell i'll probably still use single quotes when not injecting a variable lol
 
let me find the blog
 
@ircmaxell Well, I just told you: The article is old, it's not like that anymore ^^
 
7:19 PM
Oh, I know, but I found it to be a very interesting article
 
@ircmaxell It is. I read it some time ago already ;)
@ircmaxell Okay, turned out that it was indeed a waste of time: reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/o9lmp/… :)
Anyways, going to watch a movie now, laters
 
lol
good read none the less
take it easy
 
7:48 PM
hmm
why wont this do as its told? so sad
im trying to run this configure file but it wont let me
says permission denied. hmm
 
chmod +x configure
 
looks like it might be going
did you ever install mod_auth_token on your server @ircmaxell
 
no
 
Interesting...basically, throwing a request to a PHP websocket server every 50msec with the request taking up 100msec on the server, will make PHP lose packets.
 
hm. its kinda just sitting there after i ran configure
 
7:58 PM
Any ideas why this would happen? The code in question follows...
(sorry for the wall of code)
 

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