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10:03 AM
@Naruto Not really if you're a person who was recently taught what back-up is. :-)
 
@Leri The guy is client here for over 5 years.. I think you should know the software by now? :P
 
@Naruto Meh.. Why bother when s/he can call tech support anytime?
 
Tech support? :D You think this company is that big? :D
 
I think nothing, because I have not idea. :D
 
10:19 AM
Well we don't :( Well it has it upsides.. If the boss complains about my time schedule.. Sorry man.. to much phones today :D
 
@FlorianMargaine haha :-D
 
morning
@FlorianMargaine :D
 
@FlorianMargaine troll
 
you think so?
 
10:31 AM
Yes, he clearly knows what he says, imho.
 
your sarcasm detector is off
 
Probably.
 
@RonniSkansing If I had room owner powers, I'd already have silently trashed that message.
 
@RonniSkansing :D
 
10:38 AM
@bwoebi how come? =/
 
@RonniSkansing
 
@RonniSkansing Rebecca's fans have taken everything away. :Ь
 
@Leri me and gf have a huge laugh over this video (or atleast the 30 sec before we shut it down) every friday.
 
@RonniSkansing Well, I'm clearly not going to click on that
 
[= anyways happy fridays!
 
10:41 AM
can someone tell me if there is any reasonable case in PHP where you should run gc manually?
 
@SergeyTelshevsky Um, why do you even have that question?
 
@Leri I just got in an argument with a developer from another team, I said there is no use cases for it while he's saying he ran it manually and it improved the performance of his script and allowed working with greater amounts of data
now I'm just wondering if I'm wrong here
 
> allowed working with greater amounts of data
unlikely
> improved the performance of his script
possible, but only if you know what you are doing
As a general rule, disabling auto GC is a bad plan, though
And manually running GC when you haven't disabled auto is pointless
 
@DaveRandom Possible if large data was allocated temporarily. However, why was it allocated would solve the problem better than forcing GC.
 
If you have a specific task that you want to do as fast as possible then you can disable GC while you do it and run it manually after, but I doubt this would give you any real-world perf improvement in anything but the specific case where you have a script that does nothing for a long time, then wakes up and does something as fast as possible, then does nothing again for a long time
 
10:49 AM
@DaveRandom Are you suggesting disabling auto GC for cron-jobs?
 
@Leri tbh if you understand the internals of the GC mechanism enough to be able to get a real difference there then you probably shouldn't be writing whatever it is in PHP. I'd also counter that increasing memory_limit is probably a better solution.
@Leri Not cron jobs, maybe if you implemented crond in PHP because you are that insane
A cron job isn't generally long lived
I'm talking really about daemons
 
Fair enough, but still disabling gc without actually being forced to do so is something you should not do.
 
But even if you did implement crond in PHP for some reason that probably still wouldn't be a good use case for it, because saving a few microseconds here and there doesn't really gain you anything
@Leri agreed
 
@DaveRandom @Leri exactly my thoughts except for disabling auto gc - in which situation would it help?
 
> If you have a specific task that you want to do as fast as possible then you can disable GC while you do it and run it manually after, [in] the specific case where you have a script that does nothing for a long time, then wakes up and does something as fast as possible, then does nothing again for a long time
 
10:57 AM
yes, I've read that, but why :)
 
Disabling GC is mainly useful if you get a GC segfault ^^
 
why does it help to turn it off - because gcollection takes time and it's better to do in bigger chunks?
 
Also might be useful with pthreads. /cc @JoeWatkins
 
I can see how it can help there, but in 'mainstream' php applications?
 
ThW
@SergeyTelshevsky you can trigger it at a time you do not have a user waiting for results
 
10:59 AM
There could be something to be gained in perf in e.g. a quiet socket server, but as soon as it started to get busy you'd probably lose it again, and I suspect the boilerplate required to determine if it's busy would eliminate the gains from disabling it.
 
sounds like the wrong place to optimize?
 
@NikiC Which happens how, sorry? Because you create too many roots or just because bug in GC?
 
ty guys, I needed to make sure I was thinking the right way about this
 
@DaveRandom Because bug somewhere. Segfaults happening in GC are often very, very hard to track down. iirc Symfony runs it's testsuite without GC to avoid potential segfaults during shutdown ^^
 
11:01 AM
@SergeyTelshevsky In essence yes, but it's such an insanely narrow use case and I'm pretty sure that if you actually have that use case your architecture is wrong
 
@DaveRandom exactly what I said in that argument
 
@NikiC This has never happened to me yet.
 
@Leri yeah well, PHP isn't so broken yet that everybody has to deal with gc segfaults ^^
 
@NikiC I find it kinda amusing that they don't care about segfaults when testing, but if there actually was one in userland I'm pretty sure people would kick off about it...
 
11:25 AM
wtf
 
Sounds like a great concept to piss people off.
 
well it's still better than Belarus where you can't access any other sites than .by domain
 
@ziGi lies
@ziGi depends on the ISP you choose
 
well at least they wanted to regulate it
that's what I remember
I think local businesses can't have other domains rather than .by
 
@tereško Sounds well thought out and totally implementable
 
11:28 AM
and also using internet in an internet cafe requires you to show your passport
 
@ziGi not a bad idea btw
 
Also $0.62/GB is pretty fucking steep, I wouldn't even pay that in service provider costs
 
@SergeyTelshevsky why?
cause comrade Putin wants to control everything?
 
@ziGi my mate worked as an admin at an internet cafe, said police raided them weekly
 
@DaveRandom well, usually you don't have more than 1 GB/day if you don't download videos or big apps…
 
11:30 AM
@SergeyTelshevsky for what?
 
@ziGi phishing, fraud, harassment, etc
 
@bwoebi not on my phone, yes
 
@bwoebi So "if you don't really use the internet" then...
 
One thing I can't understand about harassment
 
@DaveRandom e.g. at home (4 people) we have 120 GB/month on average I'd say.
 
11:31 AM
you can always block mails that contain harrasment material
 
@bwoebi are you aware how large are those 5 minute youtube videos ?
 
but people just complain cause they are illiterate and don't know how to handle their internet stuff
 
@tereško no idea, I don't watch them ^.^
 
@ziGi there are different 'levels' of that
 
if you are gonna cry over someone being a troll or a dick, just ignore him
why do you care
 
11:32 AM
@ziGi in anycase, for anything illegal
 
well illegal is not really strict now, is it?
for some people weed is illegal for others it is not
but there is propaganda
 
country-wise
 
yep
 
@bwoebi Indeed, and $77.50 would be rather a lot to pay for that usage (bearing in mind that's the tax, not even including SP costs and other ancillaries line line rental etc)
 
if you don't like it
go live in another country
 
11:33 AM
I did 248.74GB last month (just looked)
 
pedofiles, etc.
 
What is the minimum age of consent with someone in your country @SergeyTelshevsky
 
@DaveRandom uh, well. Then it's bad. (If it's just tax…)
 
@DaveRandom I wonder, where I could see that
 
@ziGi 18
 
11:34 AM
Yay! I crashed gdb -.- in the middle of my debugging session :-(
 
@SergeyTelshevsky not true
> The age of consent in Latvia is 16.
 
^ with a caveat
 
there are nuances
much nuances
 
in Bulgaria it is 14 for example
so this means that people that are paedophiles in your country are not in mine
 
criminal responsibility start from 14 in Latvia , and there is "5 year age difference" rule for consent regarding sexual relationships
 
11:37 AM
@ziGi why do you even compare countries? if an internet cafe is in country X, it should follow it's rules, not another countries
 
sure
I don't use internet cafes anyway
so enjoy
you can always roam with your phone and use opened WiFi networks
or the Library free internet
 
I'm just saying freedom is good, but up to the limit
 
true
 
@tereško I've heard about 2 years difference rule, was it changed?
 
it is good for the good people if they can be separated from the ones that want to do harm
 
11:38 AM
@ziGi yes, and that's a question of responsibility
 
but limiting good people because there are idiots with complexes out there that want to do harm is just nasty
 
who will take it in case something bad happens
 
Jesus ofc, like she has always saved the day
 
Christ
 
@SergeyTelshevsky yes, it was changed, IIRC .. besides 16 and 21 seems kinda OK in my mind
seems sensible
 
11:40 AM
@tereško agree
 
@tereško Virgin put it on the monthly bill. I have an uncapped connection but I guess the system is set up for people who have capped usage so they can see what they are being charged for
 
@DaveRandom I am paying ~2€/GB on my phone
adding 0.5€ tax on top of it seems kinda crazy
hell, for lower end of usage it actually is 10€/GB (for those people the tax would not matter so much)
 
Yeh I mean mobile data is a little different but I wouldn't want to be taxed >25% on that either
 
it's a ridiculous amount for any country
 
I pay ~9€/GB.. a**holes. )))
 
11:50 AM
It's 10€/free calls+sms/2GB for me currently
 
why is mobile data so expensive
 
Because mobile phone networks weren't initially designed for high bandwidth data transfer, so they had to add it in at enormous cost.
 
@tereško Is that even legit? @hungarytax post?
 
I just encountered a real issue where uniform variable syntax broke my code…
https://github.com/krakjoe/phpdbg/blob/ab353c0a555313765dc43fd85771e6c53485bd35‌​/tests/run-tests.php#L392 \cc @NikiC (just fyi...) … and I wondered whether all tests were broken :-D
 
how do programmers make a portfolio?
if you are a designer
you just make a designer portfolio
but if you are a programmer
what then?
especially backend
 
12:03 PM
You should try writing code.
 
wow no shit
but I do write code on an everyday basis
but when you do it for customer
they don't want to see their code exposed
cause you know, they have paid for it
 
Then write code outside of work.
 
@ziGi write open-source code…
 
true
 
@Psychemaster ...which has been more than accounted for by now, and future expansion is a lot cheaper because the terrestrial backbone is a lot stronger and easy to tap into (in the UK at least)
 
12:08 PM
@DaveRandom Clearly nobody's told the carriers, then =(
 
What really fucking pisses me off though is that many networks still charge 7/8p for an SMS, when it costs them basically nothing to deliver
It's often cheaper to get a whole 60 second phone call than it is to send an SMS
 
@Psychemaster I actually dealt with billing for a telecom company for a while and I can tell you that it is a fucking racket, there are margins of >300% to be had on a lot of things
 
over to someone else, I have to do real work ... unfortunately ...
 
Hey @Psychemaster where in Manchester are you?
 
12:12 PM
A few mins out from city centre, why
 
Just wondering, I'm on Deansgate
 
Ah, not too far out then
 
You were at phpnw?
 
Nope
 
@AndreaFaulds ping
 
12:13 PM
You missed out
@JoeWatkins Summon the RFC machine!
Maybe ask Phil
/me gets lunch, brb
 
I don't have time to work on code, code or gtfo, want patch first ... will be able to finish over weekend, but someone could do it today, while I do proper work.... because I have to do that sometimes ... sometimes ...
 
@JoeWatkins does this give public $foo accessor function() {} or something?
 
<?php
class Test {
    public $name;

    public accessor name() {
        return $this->name;
    }

    public mutator name($value) {
        $this->name = $value;
    }
}
?>
 
you mean private $name?
but nice anyway, thanks
 
it's not finished ...
 
12:20 PM
ah lol
 
we got tables, should be easy lookup, easy to finish, but busy ...
[joe@localhost php-src]$ valgrind sapi/cli/php -n get.php
==20143== Memcheck, a memory error detector
==20143== Copyright (C) 2002-2013, and GNU GPL'd, by Julian Seward et al.
==20143== Using Valgrind-3.9.0 and LibVEX; rerun with -h for copyright info
==20143== Command: sapi/cli/php -n get.php
==20143==
found accessor for name
==20143==
==20143== HEAP SUMMARY:
==20143==     in use at exit: 6,864 bytes in 69 blocks
==20143==   total heap usage: 15,103 allocs, 15,034 frees, 1,807,948 bytes allocated
c'mon someone join in damn it ...
 
Good morning
 
morning
 
12:37 PM
if this is going to be targeting PHP 7, then why not use get and set as the keywords? Won't the other engine modifications make the keywords a non-issue as far as BC is concerned?
 
@DanLugg That highly depends how compatible 7 is with 5
and thanks for awesome versioning again. :)
 
Even tho there is BC breakage, you still want to keep it as minimal as possible, otherwise you'll end up with fun adoption issues and no one will be able to take advantage of the cool new stuff for half a decade
 
Holy shit, I didn't realise these drones were so big: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
I thought they were basically just slightly bigger model planes
 
Otherwise you might as well rewrite the language from scratch =D
 
@DaveRandom Drones are not the remote controlled planes people call drones
 
12:46 PM
Erm... pardon?
 
I always imagine drones would be an awesome headbutting machine.
 
Pascal is the ugliest language I've ever worked with- :-).
 
@DaveRandom not a "drone" a drone
 
@Leri yes, yes, tell me something new… I had it the last two years in school…
 
@bwoebi Have you worked on project written in 1997-2000? :D
 
12:48 PM
@Leri no :-P
 
@PeeHaa Oh right yeh I know that, I didn't realise they were that big though - like that thing is actually big enough to fit a person inside even if there isn't one in it
 
@DaveRandom They are that big because they are packed with sweets and love for the countries it is used it
:)
I have to work with ssh in php :(
For some reason I have a feeling this is going to suck
 
@PeeHaa Sort of sounds like the drone is a pedo
@PeeHaa What do you actually need to do?
I have used PECL ssh2 before, it wasn't too bad given how square peg -> round hole programmatic terminal usage is in general
There are very few things where there isn't a better way though...
 
@DaveRandom 5 servers. 1 centralized firebird (yes you read that right) database. The centralized server needs to run shit on the other machines
 
No possibility of making a nice clean API that can live on the slaves?
 
12:55 PM
Whoever decided to name variables in Georgian should die (if not already dead). -.- /me is angry
 
@DaveRandom Nope
Bitches don't like clean
 
How about a dirty-but-not-as-dirty-as-ssh API?
I mean, don't these things run web servers or something?
Also maybe you should ask Lester
 
Not from the outside
@DaveRandom lol
 
@PeeHaa You can't do some funky shiz to open web servers up to a specific IP and/or use client cert authentication?
Or even have some client daemons running on the slaves and little push server on the master or something
Even that would be better than ssh, IMO
 
@DaveRandom Nope :(
 
12:58 PM
Can't use some sort of server orchestration / command-runner / configuration tool that is then called from PHP?
 
@PeeHaa vpn?
 
Well yeh I mean you'd clearly what to script the slave side task on the slave side, you only want to invoke a single command over ssh if you have to do it that way
But PHP-as-a-tty is generally just... no
 
@Leri dunno tbh
 
@PeeHaa Well, I don't know what you are actually doing but.. Having WS'es communicating with each other over vpn should work technically.
 
working now ...
<?php
class Test {
    public $value;

    public accessor value() {
        return $this->value * 4;
    }

    public mutator value($value) {
        $this->value = $value * 2;
    }
}

$t = new Test();

$t->value = 10;

var_dump($t->value);

var_dump($t);
?>
int(80)
object(Test)#1 (1) {
  ["value"]=>
  int(20)
}
 
1:12 PM
Good morning
 
moin
 
Hey! @ircmaxell and myself will be doing a tutorial at #phpbnl15! There will be virtual (turing) machines, interpreters, and compilers!
 
@JoeWatkins That is not backward compatible still..
 
what isn't ?
@ircmaxell looks interesting ...
 
Good morning
 
1:14 PM
moin @AlmaDo
 
@JoeWatkins If someone uses mutator or accessor in their code at the moment his/her code will be breaken. The same problem as it is with get/set
Morning, @AlmaDo
 
yeah but less likely to come across those words than set/get ...
 
Yeah, but you know voting phase and all the drama...
 
what about public __get name() {} and public __set name() {} ... __ is meant to be reserved for us ...
 
@JoeWatkins dislike. I would rather have var $value { public get() {}, protected set($value) {}, default = 12 } or something like that
 
1:15 PM
that might be a way around it, renaming those tokens is easy anyway ...
 
hi can anyone help me about this ?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26548071/render-a-compare-html-table-from-mysql-database-using-php
 
@ircmaxell before you judge, look how simple the implementation is ...
 
I'm looking at how the readability is, which I don't care for
 
@JoeWatkins I like that since we already have __get and __set
 
they're not tokens right now though ...
not sure if we can use those actually ...
 
1:17 PM
Yeah, but they're reserved anyways..
@JoeWatkins Oh, that..
 
simple in back, complex in front
 
ThW
@ircmaxell does the property has two visibility levels?
 
even once inheritance and all that gubbins is implemented it will be a tiny patch ...
 
I prefer simple both, but I would accept complex in back, simple in front
@ThW yes, public read, protected write
 
1:20 PM
@JoeWatkins You should fix your editor settings
 
ThW
@ircmaxell complex
 
@ThW ?
 
@ircmaxell What default is supposed to do?
 
@Leri var $var = 12;
 
@ircmaxell Not to harp on about current affairs but is there much difference in behavior with ebola now having a sufferer in NY?
 
ThW
1:22 PM
The property has two states at the same time. How does that work with inheritance?
 
no
@ThW two states?
 
ThW
Is it a public or a protected property?
 
@ircmaxell I don't really like that. Sometimes I don't want that property was backed up by field.
 
@Leri then don't supply a default, it's optional
 
ThW
Maybe I have to much Delphi on my mind
 
1:25 PM
Makes sense.
But var still looks slightly off for properties.
 
hi
can anyone help me solve my php code problem ?
 
@ThW Prefixing functions? That's ugly, is not it?
 
@mohsen1932 ask questions, don't ask to ask
 
this is my problem :
-1
Q: render a compare html table from mysql database using php

mohsen1932this is my database structure and data : ProductsTable: id | title 1 | samsung galaxy s5 2 | iphone 5s PropertiseTable: id | title | parent_id 1 | screen | 0 2 | screen size | 1 3 | screen resolution | 1 Products_Propertise_Table: i...

@KevinMGranger
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26548071/render-a-compare-html-table-from-mysql-database-using-php
 
ThW
@Leri In Delphi you often define a TCustomFoo class with protected properties and TConcreteFoo childrens that define some of them in a higher visibility level (public or published)
custom class property protected property foo : int read Ffoo write Ffoo; child class public property foo;
 
1:33 PM
@mohsen1932 we told you man, use NoSQL
and NodeJS
 
@ThW Well, that's kinda sane..
 
@zigi in this project i should use php/mysql :|
 
ah, tell your project leader that won't be possible anymore
didn't you read, MySQL is not supported anymore
and PHP has drastically changed
 
lol
 
since they introduced compilation
so now you have to refactor all your code
and compile it before you run it every time
 
1:35 PM
#FridayTrolling
 
so it runs x6 faster
they found out that it greatly sucks when it is just a script
so it now there is a compiler that converts it to basic C and then another one that converts the C to Assembly
that way you eliminate the heavy OOP which is just meaningful for people anyways
 
hello everyone
 
hello Abhishek Rajinder Kumar Dinesh
 
this ssh attempt is turning out as expected...
 
1:41 PM
i am getting this error when i am running one project onmy loca wampl server Non-static method CommonFunctions::getMetaTags() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context
it was working on other computer on lamp server
 
@akhilesh different php version?
 
@akhilesh That's because your error reporting is not correct
 
@PeeHaa Bunch of ugly hacks? :-)
 
@Leri In short: yes :|
 
@PeeHaa so wHat i need to do remove this error please suggest me
 
1:44 PM
@akhilesh didn't you hear? wamp is not supported anymore
people decided that Microsoft is too big so now everyone transfers to ASP
if you go to oDesk
they are desperately looking for PHP to ASP converters
 
@ziGi sorry it is wamp
 
yeah I know
I am talking about WAMP
tell your boss that this is not good and you have to transfer to ASP as soon as possible
otherwise the support won't be available soon
 
Anyone know much about Laravel 4 validation here?
 
@CharliePrynn there is not need to know Laravel 4 anymore, didn't you hear that they are deprecating it?
People decided that having many languages is obsolete
and there should be only one language for programming everything
so no more PHP
 
@ziGi see this is my project that has been alradey developed in yii framework and i am just trying to run this application on my loacal wamp server
 
1:47 PM
@akhilesh I suggest you put a Debian/Ubuntu server and write:
sudo apt-get install apache2
sudo apt-get install php5
sudo apt-get install mysql
and then you don't have to deal with WAMP
and waste people's time
 
@ziGi Don't say stuff like that! Laravel is here to stay!
 
@ziGi for that i have to install ubuntu on my computer can i remove this error by using wamp server
 
WAMP is too much configuration
and you have to deal with errors like these
 
@RonniSkansing hiii
 
<?php
class Test {

    public function __construct($value) {
        $this->value = $value;
    }

    protected mutator value($value) {
        $this->value = $value * 2;
    }

    public accessor value() {
        return $this->value * 4;
    }
}

$t = new Test(10);

var_dump($t->value);

var_dump($t);
?>
 
1:51 PM
@JoeWatkins tell @akhilesh that he shouldn't use static functions and why, and that next time calling static functions using $this is not a good idea
@akhilesh I am kidding/trolling, the problem you have is related to the fact that you have improperly written code that was working on a different level of error reporting
apparently you call somewhere in your code CommonFunctions::getMetaTags()
when getMetaTags is not defined as static
 
@ircmaxell doesn't that do everything we really need ?? (still v simple patch)
 
@JoeWatkins I don't know, not really thinking about it
 
I don't really see the huge difference between what you proposed and what we voted on a while ago ... I mean it's really similar ... why not try something different ...
 
@JoeWatkins Ohhhh, I like it! Only problem is that it might be confusing whether $t->value includes behavior in calling code.
 
@JoeWatkins are you planning to put mutator and accessor in PHP ^_^
 
1:53 PM
no, research, we are discussing possibilities ...
 
yeah
 
@JoeWatkins what does that output?
 
@JoeWatkins sure it's similar. From a user-land perspective I think that's a good approach. From a backed perspective it may have been way too complicated
 
so how would the mutator work
 
int(80)
object(Test)#1 (1) {
  ["value"]=>
  int(20)
}
 
1:55 PM
when you say $t->value = 5 it would store 10 in value?
 
@ircmaxell I don't see why one syntax or the other would make a backend difference
@JoeWatkins k, that's what I'd have expected
 
well this is a bit more evolved __get and __set
 
@JoeWatkins why did you use weird "mutator" and "accessor" thingies? Why not "get" and "set"?
 
Anybody here have experience using the UPS API?
 
just because words, they can always be changed ... set/get are going to be common place names, so unless we can lift token/keyword restriction we gotta pick something else right ?
 
1:57 PM
@JoeWatkins have you seen how properties in Delphi work?
 
@NikiC I know. My point was that I don't think the user-land behavior/syntax was overly complicated
 
@JoeWatkins uh, if that's the reason, we can just implement get/set via T_STRING
 
and you think it is not already with all this mix of OO and Non-OO
and function namings
and double underscores?
 
@ircmaxell I think it had a number of unnecessary and weird parts.
 
gonna join in @NikiC ??
 
1:58 PM
E.g. the ability to overwrite isset and unset behavior is useless imho
 
@NikiC not arguing that
I'm not saying the proposal wasn't whack
 
afk for 20, school run ...
 
And also I found the syntax weird where there is a visibility on the property and then additional visibilities on the accessors. Your suggestion of using var looks more reasonable
 
I'm just saying that the basic get/set syntax was actually pretty nice, as it conceptually tied the operations together without making them just look like methods at first glance
 

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