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12:00 AM
oh.
And I'm working on OS X…^^
 
:)
 
github.com/bwoebi/php-src/blob/… … that if there… :x
 
Hmm yeah, that doesn't seem right given the obviousness of _Z_PARAM_DOUBLE :)
I reckon an EXPECTED() may still be the right thing to do here.
 
maybe. Does that builtin not exist on Darwin?
 
@bwoebi I think it does by now.
with llvm 3
 
12:11 AM
I maybe can try to activate it now…
 
do it do it!
 
At least it seems to not fail^^
now let's try if it has some real effect…
 
i suppose we could detect llvm and then #if __has_builtin(__builtin_expect)
 
I hate compilers which try to be smarter than humans. ...
even with EXPECTED() it still exhibits the same behaviour
 
and you're sure that it gets wrapped in __builtin_expect()?
 
12:20 AM
jup, according to llvm_gcc -E, it does.
 
BUG
:)
later today i'm going to look at tsrm_realpath_r .. it irritates me that the memcmp() seems to be off-by-one according to valgrind.
 
@Ja͢ck :x
 
i wonder if it can be reproduced in a smaller piece of code.
 
no idea.
 
btw, i wonder if it's worth adding clang to the compilers that could use EXPECTED()
 
12:31 AM
not sure…
especially as the compiler thinks to be smarter than the one who writes the EXPECTED() ^^
 
haha
does clang have a big community? if so, we could ask someone to have a look at it and give us some idea what could be done about it ...
 
no real idea, but I think yes…
 
ooh, they have a mailing list.
it's kind of ironic that the code is part of fast zpp heh
 
faster than zpp in 5.6^^
 
:D
that said, the impact is probably negligible .. but still worth knowing why imo.
 
12:37 AM
agree
It's late now… [2:39] good night.
 
12:57 AM
Is websocket require to be one socket stored at least to make the loop continuing ?
 
1:29 AM
I fucking love Igorrr
 
while true?
 
oh, the three r's are intentional
 
Yes, yes they are.
 
1:48 AM
Stupid Valgrind =(
 
So, I have a little bit of orange juice into which I can mix a lot of vodka, or a lot of cola into which I can mix a little bit of whiskey.
Decisions... decisions.
 
life is tough
 
Vodka is within arms reach, and I don't have to get up; winner by default.
 
PhoneGap is for pussies!
 
2:03 AM
It's... a pretty crappy "language".
Even worse than PHP.
:P
 
I thought that impossible.
 
I thought so too.
Apparently, there's a weird language that Adobe made on top of HTML that's super messed up.
 
Besides, what could be more fun and bare bone than writing in both Java and Objective C ?
 
in The 2nd Monitor on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Aug 9 at 22:29, by Phrancis
Coldfusion sounds like some intentionally wanted to make a bad language...
 
Well, cold fusion is a myth, that's why.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:01 AM
morning
 
argh
cant use space key
;[
it is stuck
0
Q: My laptop key is not press able so i cant seem to use it

Hassan Althaftoday I wake up and found out that my laptop spacebar is not working. I dared to pull it out and tried cleaning it, but it didn't work even after i fit it back. It is kind of stuck. Anyway to fix it?

halp
 
4:16 AM
Change keyboard
 
argh
cant afford one for $50
lol
my laptop is like 2years olf
i guess i will use our pc instead..
 
4:35 AM
Hello folks
 
4:49 AM
Hello. :)
 
 
1 hour later…
5:55 AM
can anyone please answer this question stackoverflow.com/questions/25433495/…
 
6:09 AM
@Tarun, you obviously are missing the point of unit tests
 
Packalyst (http://packalyst.com/) has a directory of packages that are specifically designed for @laravelphp
dude is such an ass ...
 
you write each test to make sure that for specific information you have specific behavior
@JoeWatkins well, at least Sturgeon seems to be growing up
 
Can PHP upload things to the home folder of a server?
 
yes, with proper configuration of that server
 
he's right on the money there ... "who cares, we do what we want", "the idea that every single package has to be totally tool agnostic is silly and arbitrary." ... otwell needs a press dept. that don't say silly things ...
 
6:17 AM
better not
the laratards are already worshiping him enough
 
lol laratards
yeah I see what you mean ... better just let him keep making mistakes ... but these are his actual thoughts, which is a bit worrying all the same given his position ...
 
what else would you expect
he has invested his ego in said framework
when you criticize anything about his framework, he sees it as you directly criticizing his person
see the: 3.8 Stake
 
6:34 AM
@tereško that's very true ...
I don't know what I expect, I at least expect him not to be an ass ... he doesn't have to favour framework agnostic code for everything, but the entirety of the rest of the community are an he should acknowledge and encourage it ... because of his position ...
 
ThW
Morning
 
what are laratards today are our team mates in 5-10 years ...
and they'll come and work on my team with a "who cares, we do what we want" attitude, and tightly couple everything to everything else, and will need to be taught how to program all over again outside of laravel ...
morning @ThW
 
I am dreading that (about 2 month in future) day
 
6:52 AM
Gooooooooooood friiiiiidaaaay morning!
 
yay
mornin @PeeHaa
 
I came for gordan. Where is he ?
 
We have no gordan in here
 
7:02 AM
No way!
@Gordon where are you ? :(
 
7:17 AM
morning
@rdlowrey I read your earlier comment as "Yes, so I've broken the underlying dependency function after all." :)
 
morningz @Jack
 
\o
So, only 7 test cases left ya?
At least for non-zts
 
ENABLE ZTS JACK OR I SLAP YOU
 
haha
 
7:24 AM
I looked at Zend/tests/closure_026.phpt btw.
 
I went back to 5.6 for jitfu last night ...
 
Something odd with the var_dump() going in one more step of recursion.
The var_dump() under master goes into the array, whereas it should (imo) stop there, because it should be the same array as you're dumping ... unless, it's ... NOT the same.
time to grab me some coffee beans and roast them like superman.
 
Morning
 
@Fabien morning and @Ja͢ck
 
7:39 AM
MornHaa
 
moin fab
 
meurning :)
 
Good morning!
 
good moaning
 
Hey, I'm in a situation where a user can book appointments, each time an appointment is marked as complete the user get's a star, if the user visits their profile page and since their last visit they have gained a star, maybe 2 or 3 or more I show a lightbox/popup telling them congratulations etc. I don't want to store a value in the database to keep track of if I need to show the popup or not, I don't like the idea of storing this sort of presentation related stuff with row in a users table.
 
@PeeHaa Chat Igniter?
 
lulz
> The difference between method hiding and method overraiding
 
Nevermind I think I just figured it out, possibly
 
@David why is the popup restricted to user's profile ?
also, you should just store the timestamp of last visit and select the "earned stars" since that time
 
@DaveRandom The one where you can click to definition on github
 
7:51 AM
@tereško Yeah that's what I just thought of, I was thinking about everytime they visit the profile send a cookie back with the response, or else I could store it in the database, I would prefer the cookie, if they delete their cookies well then they may just get a little popup but nothing too bad
@tereško If I stored it in the database I would have to update the database from the controller, then in the view I would have the newest time which was just set from the controller which is no good. I could send an AJAX request when the page loads to find out if I need to show the popup or not, I have to use JS anyway to show the popup. What do you do think is the best solution?
 
I actually did not understand most of it
 
I think I'm just going to use the cookie
 
why exactly cannot you update the "last visited" column for the profile every time when you are fetching data for said profile ?
what exactly is the point of that cookie ?
 
morning :)
 
The cookie is to store the time when they last visited the profile page. I've never done any write operations in the view, just the controller
 
7:58 AM
morning @salathe
 
Interestingly, my reddit post resulted in people voting up the linked comment .. oh well.
 
Doing a write operation in the view would be weird
 
why would you need to do write operations in a view to implement something like this ?!
you are making no sense
 
"why exactly cannot you update the "last visited" column for the profile every time when you are fetching data for said profile ?"

I would be fetching the data for the profile from the view, that means I would be updating/writing data from the view also. Writing data to a database/updating model from view seems weird
 
good mornings
 
8:02 AM
I give up.
no of this make sense to me and I have other things to do
 
@David you cannot write data from view...
 
@iroegbu That's exactly what I'm saying
 
that's what it looked like... read this
 
@David how exactly you know which entry to read from, when you are viewing your profile ?
 
8:08 AM
@tereško I get the instance of the current user from Recognition service
 
since your presentation layer never really gets its "hands" on structures from model layer , why would it make any difference to you at which point the Profile is populated ?
 
@tereško I think were talking about two different things now and gone far from the original question. I'm implementing it right now with the cookie to keep track of when they last visited their profile instead of adding another column to the database to hold the time
 
Morning !
 
@PaulDragoonis \o
 
8:15 AM
@PaulDragoonis morning
 
morning Paul
 
mornings
 
jo @DaveRandomness
sir
 
moin random one
 
Ow hey @PaulDragoonis is here, have we captured another one in our web of evil awesome chat room?
 
8:21 AM
I was invited here for internals chatter :)
I like it here better than freenode #phpc - more active.
 
I tried phpc ...
 
Less people talking about WoW ..etc :)
 
@peehaa Why did you mark it Duplicate ? m asking for real time validation — Vivek 2 mins ago
@peehaa For example myname@mysite.com is valid. something@dsfdsfdsf12123.com is invalid. Well i hv read title only. Let me read the answers too. — Vivek 26 secs ago
...
 
@PaulDragoonis more importantly ... no kittens are ever posted or discussed ... we spend much time on kittens ...
kittens or gtfo ...
7
 
Friday pin for that, I think
 
hehe
 
Also I bet they don't talk about Rebecca either
 
@JoeWatkins - good idea :)
 
cultureless ...
 
8:28 AM
Hi, for Coda 2, do colour schemes work for C?
 
We just hit 1507 unit test classes at work, 7147 assertions :)
 
Morning
 
8:30 AM
@salathe -.-
 
-.-'
 
Has anyone here worked with flash?
 
@Leri Yes. I don't recommend it.
 
@DaveRandom Well, I don't decide that. What I want to know is which one should I prefer AS3 or Haxe?
 
8:32 AM
I only ever worked with AS
So I can't really say
My experience is extremely limited
 
Under PhpStorm's composer menu I can add dependencies, but I see no option to update current packages. Do I have to do it the old fashioned way or is there a menu option for it?
 
some kind of testing competition is it @PaulDragoonis !?

OK (2660 tests, 9480 assertions) (dev)
Tests: 6096, Assertions: 22233, Failures: 1 (web)
Tests: 3480, Assertions: 13027, Failures: 2. (data/misc)
Tests: 1287, Assertions: 4276, Failures: 1. (api)
 
@crypticツ Yeh, old fashioned way. Afaict there's no way to do composer install either, there's an open ticket with JB about it somewhere, I think better support is planned for 8
 
@JoeWatkins - hardcore! :)
What system is that, your work one ?
 
@DaveRandom And I worked with haxe, I guess, I'll go with the latter. I'll be doing lots of socket stuff... Well... I my current job simply sucks.
 
8:33 AM
There's also no way to set a global composer.phar
 
it is yeah
 
@crypticツ Oh, hi. Welcome back.
 
hi, thx
 
@JoeWatkins - nice, our platform is only 5 months old.
 
@crypticツ You can open the terminal in PHP Storm though, so it's not like it's a big stretch to deal with it atm
 
8:35 AM
posted on August 22, 2014 by kbironneau

/* by Spam */

 
I'm sure you can feel the next sentence coming ... this is a legacy-ish system, 3m LOC ... it is ... big ...
 
@PaulDragoonis jealous
 
@JoeWatkins - wow, good job making legacy stable. that's a lot of code.
 
@JoeWatkins coverage?
 
Also, has anyone here worked with delphi 5?
 
8:36 AM
@JoeWatkins - We have our app code, but most of it is done in components, which are privately hosted using Satis, in PSR-4 components.
 
@DaveRandom I'm actually not sure ...
@PaulDragoonis you are being spoiled ...
 
And I know it's ancient. Code base is from '95
 
@JoeWatkins - I designed it :)
 
niiiice ...
 
ThW
@Leri <- a long time ago, all versions from Delphi 1 to Delphi 8
 
8:36 AM
@Leri lulz ~20yo code
 
@JoeWatkins - We're using PSR 2,3,4,6 :-)
 
I was 10 when that code was written @Leri :-P
 
6 because I keep PPI\Cache uptodate with our current PSR\Cache. Redis++ :)
 
I came in right at the end ... I'm allowed to change whatever I want, in the first three months I worked at this company I instigated more changes than all of the developers put together in the year before I started ... so we have tests that work now, we're reasonably stable ...
 
@ThW Great. I have to maintain really awfully written application. If I get in trouble I know who to ping. :P
 
ThW
8:38 AM
lol
 
@JoeWatkins - congrats :)
 
@DaveRandom I was just 4. :D
 
but I cannot rewrite all this code by myself ... my biggest problem is changing the minds of developers writing the code ...
 
@JoeWatkins - very tough to do when you're not the lead.
It's easier with training budgets for conf's showing best practises.
 
@Fabien ?
 
8:41 AM
I don't lead ... not because I can't, but pressure .... I had enough of pressure ... if you ask me a really hard question, I'll fall asleep ... I'm not the programmer I was 10 years ago ... or even 2 years ago ...
 
@Fabien Oh wait, just got that, seem to be having an async conversation
Doable, but not easy
 
we're actually quite progressive there, there's even webinars every couple of weeks that leads are meant to present and devs take an interest in ... they do all the right things, but then are presented with a massive amount of mostly legacy code ... you can hardly blame them if they end up writing more ...
 
Not sure if could steal OpenGrok's indexing engine for that, maybe. It would very quickly require huge amounts of storage though, I suspect. Would probably have to be done as a per-project opt-in type thingy, like Travis
Pretty large amount of work for something that would be hard to monetise, I suspect. Probably only FOSS projects would be interested in it.
 
... so, the new guy produces this gem yesterday:
> Why do you keep saying that global state is bad in frameworks ?! They are obviously made by smart people and they have a good reason for having those global objects. If you made a framework, you probably would see why they did it and too have global state.
 
if you can take any part of opengrok, or all of it, and make it work I will give you one of my gummy bears ...
 
8:44 AM
 
@tereško lol
 
LOL
 
heheheh
 
@JoeWatkins I have tried, it's one of those things I will periodically keep trying to do until I make it happen. I have a clean VPS image with tomcat set up on it at home so I can keep starting from semi-scratch every time I decide to try :-P
 
hopefully, he's the company barber ...
 
8:46 AM
I am not sure about long-term strategy here ...
 
I recommend borrowing some light artillery from @webarto
 
hehe
 
@JoeWatkins - I don't blame them. I do recommend an abstraction strategy for refactoring. Service oriented architecture, or splitting the system up into API's so the background can be refactored.
 
I could probably extract the same kinds of opinion from people I'm working with @tereško ... facta non-verba ... when they commit code, you audit it if it's wrong ... it doesn't really matter what they say ... what you do is important ...
 
8:49 AM
HTTP API's
 
\o/
 
@Jimbo morning
 
well .. there is nothing I can do at the moment, because our current codebase is shit and I will be starting the "upgrade of infrastructure" only this weekend (first step is moving the repository management to GitLab driven solution .. unless the pricing for a GitHub's enterprise solutions will have a competitive pricing)
 
@PaulDragoonis the api tests are new (so is api), I've started along this road already ... but it cannot be taken to completion, there will always be a large amount of legacy code in use that there is no money time or will power (from those that wield power) to rewrite ... there's something like 50 developers on all of the teams, rather than trying to spend my time teaching them all to program properly (some are just out of school, one is an ex assistant professor, wide range of skillsets)
we go into the next project with better practices ... drawing on what they learned from having to work on this codebase ...
 
@DaveRandom Yup. I'll leave it in your capable hands :P
 
8:56 AM
@Fabien s/capable//
 
PHP has no dns cache ?
this is madness ...
@DaveRandom
 
@JoeWatkins - should PHP have? I don't believe it's responsible for this, I believe it will ask your OS for data, and your OS should have this.
should have this = should cache dns
 
@JoeWatkins :D
how slow is it really, though?
 
it wouldn't matter if it does, the thing about a cache that all processes are sharing is that it will be exclusively locked if a write can occur while a lookup is being performed, or else it will become corrupt at random and be useless ... the thing about an in process cache is avoiding any possible syscalls and that synchronization holding everything up ...
 
the only dns speed-up i can imagine is when you disregard the cache setting.
 
9:05 AM
@JoeWatkins - i agree with you about syscalls. Which part of PHP handles DNS lookups to the OS ? Which internal function, do you know ?
 
@PaulDragoonis there are a few system calls for that actually; they all revolve around libresolv
 
I do not ... @DaveRandom and @rdlowrey are your guys for anything http/stream/socket/web/stuff/boy band related ...
 
the most often used is obviously gethostbyname()
 
You will have to respect TTL and all sorts of extra requirements, it could open up a can of worms.
 
9:06 AM
@Ja͢ck No, that's a bad idea. I promise. I've been down that road and it does not lead anywhere good.
 
you can't ignore it ...
 
@Ja͢ck - I know that function, straight C :)
 
@DaveRandom Yeah, well, I'm not saying good ... I'm asking how slow is it really?
 
How slow is the syscall? Would have to profile it. I suspect you would find that a local cache would be noticably faster though, although it comes with its own set of problems
See thing is (something that everyone always seems to forget) is that every DNS lookup comes with a minimum of 1 stat() call
 
stat cache ?
 
9:09 AM
Must be uncached
 
might already handle this, unless that only includes file system
 
hosts file
If you cache that stat(), changes to the hosts file don't take immediate effect, which they do with the OS resolver
 
Roger that
Interesting nonetheless :) What if it had a watcher on /etc/hosts? :)
filemtime
 
^ that would work
 
..etc
watcher would trigger a dnsstatcache() purge
 
9:10 AM
I thought libresolv reads /etc/hosts only at startup?
 
@Ja͢ck - it's real time
 
dafuq
 
it must have a watcher or some kind, I don't know what the OS does.
Never bothered to look
@Ja͢ck - 'ping' updates immediately if you update /etc/hosts, so it's upto something sneaky
 
yeah, but ping is a separate process
 
Windows <7 does a stat(), not looked into what 7 or 8 do
 
9:11 AM
ping loads libresolv in proc
 
roger.
linux kernel community on freenode will know the answers to this.
 
I remember having to restart Apache for /etc/hosts to get looked at again.
 
you could nslookup using local dns server to test if /etc/hosts are reflected tho I think ... probably ...
 
@Ja͢ck - don't believe you! but never say never :) There must have been additional caching going on
 
this is outside my comfort zone ... can we go back to kittens ?
 
9:12 AM
Never in my life have I ever needed to reboot apache
@JoeWatkins - no.
:P
 
hehe :D
 
But, but... the kittens!
 
I think a prototype is needed ... test it and see ...
 
@PaulDragoonis you may be right, my memory can get hazy at times.
 
there will be a difference, there's no doubt a local process cache will be faster, but it's a matter of can you work out these problems ...
 
9:14 AM
gotta move myself from office -> home .. later
 
peace
 
lata
 
@JoeWatkins local servers ignore the hosts file, somewhat confusingly. Hosts file is for local resolver only, named/bind have completely bypass this, and after a lot of consideration I concluded this was the correct behaviour. Obviously you can still hard-code entries into the server's resolver, but for example you may want the server's resolver and the local resolver to respond differently to localhost lookups
I've given all this a lot of thought over the last year or two
 
that's enough thinking time ... lets see an implementation that works :)
I'm always wrong
shame we can't have signatures on messages :)
 
I actually think that the real solution here is to bin the hosts file and have local entries created by talking to the resolver directly via a shell command, let the resolver deal with the storage impl details, but that's by the by
^ at the OS level, I mean
 
9:18 AM
one does not simply "bin the hosts file" ... (funnier if you imagine I went to memgenerator)
 
Yeh I realise it will never happen
 
so ... where's ttl then, I don't see it ?
 
Where, in the hosts file?
 
we don't know it do we ?
 
Every entry in the hosts file has an implicit ttl of 0
Hence, changes take immediate effect
But you can determine that no change has happened without re-parsing the file, you just need to watch it for modification
The whole hosts file concept is pretty weak, the only records you can specify with it are A/AAAA
 
9:24 AM
sorry, phone call ...
I actually meant, if we are to cache hostents how do we determine ttl for one ?
hostent has no ttl, so where is it, if anywhere ?
 
@JoeWatkins Meaning "how do we query the OS for a full record instead of just the mapping"?
 
yes
 
NB, we already have an imple ;-)
 
that's horrible code to read...
 
@PeeHaa if you read his question, you'd realise he was searching for a way to use a single object instance, without making the class a Singleton. Globals are the cleanest way to do that, so long as the developer stays aware of what he's declared. So you know, the question is tagged OOP because he's interested in Classes and Objects. — Okeke Emmanuel Oluchukwu 10 mins ago
lolwut :D
 
9:30 AM
Hmm, my data is being passed through SPL's ArrayObject which is returning it private :(
 
so then ... I'd make a patch for testing ... or I think @DaveRandom should ...
 
What's a good way to get this information to not be private? code
 
@Fabien You want the stored array to be in a non-private property?
 
Yeah.
 
Why?
 
9:38 AM
Well I am using github.com/pda/pheanstalk and there's a function ->statsTube() which gives me the stats for a queue (tube). That response is private so I can't use any of the crap it returns.
Suppose I could just loop through it
 
I'm still not sure what you're after, but if you just want the array then use getArrayCopy()
 
Ah nice thanks.
 
I love how we can assign values now :)
protected $performanceColor = self::GREY;
 
^ wasn't that always possible?
 
9:47 AM
Maybe actually lol
@joE
@JoeWatkins - how's your coverage ? :) puu.sh/b2ZCa/505de913d9.png
 
you rang ?
 
@JoeWatkins Added to The List
 
hmm, so someone on the list had an interesting idea to test BC on a basket full o' OSS software? :)
I think, if anything, it could give a reasonable idea of the implications ...
Otherwise we keep talking about fictitious BC
 
@PaulDragoonis nice ... I'll try and get numbers ... I'm prepared for a bit of embarrassment :)
@Jack you mean php-src bc ?
 
yeah
 
9:53 AM
windows team already do iirc
 
@JoeWatkins - your code base is huge in comparison tho, we do TDD from the beginning so you can't really compare them.
 
@Ja͢ck Derick disagrees.
(I do not, but point is that that will not satisfy all camps)
 
@DaveRandom disagrees to what exactly?
I'm just saying that it could be used against a certain decision ... not for something.
 
It's friday........
 
9:59 AM
ah yes, we haven't heard from lester for a while ... i thought he had given up, but i'm glad that he's back ... =D
 
@tereško FYI no breaker for a few weeks :/
 

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