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12:01 AM
Scrum isn't agile.
It's a fast iterative development - but it's not agile.
 
> Scrum (development), a variant of the Agile methodology used for software development
 
It's on the internet so it must be true.
 
I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Random Question ~ how is there a chat for PHP but not one for ASP
 
Because ASP is terrible?
 
12:10 AM
gasp*
 
or

ASP.NET MVC Framework

To discuss the fantastic MVC framework
"The last message was posted 978 days ago."
 
DEAD
 
@BDillan because almost nobody used pure ASP
people use ASP.NET frameworks, but those usually are used in combination with C#
 
12:56 AM
Word
 
Hello, room.
 
Hello, roomie.
 
@ircmaxell the other day, you mentioned there was someone who might be interested in moving...something to C? i can't remember if it was ardent or the graph stuff
 
yup
 
oh, both?
 
1:00 AM
@LeviMorrison meet @sdboyer. @sdboyer meet @LeviMorrison You two should get along well
 
oh right, yeah
 
Hello.
 
@LeviMorrison hi, i'll be building on ardent soon :)
 
@sdboyer: def ardent. And if graph lib stuff proves useful, yes
 
@ircmaxell cool, ok
yeah, i'm really not sure how useful it'll end up being
 
1:00 AM
Oh? What do you have in mind?
 
give it time to prove its API and the later
 
yep
 
@LeviMorrison what we talked about, migrating it to PECL
 
Oh good, good.
 
@LeviMorrison when i port this to 5.5, i intend to rewrite some of the guts to be based on types offered by Ardent - github.com/sdboyer/gliph
 
1:02 AM
I've actually been looking at creating graphs for Ardent.
Specifically a DAG.
 
;-)
 
@LeviMorrison i also might be amenable to just merging it into Ardent :) i've implemented at least one approach to that basic use case already
lots more to do in that lib, but right now you can generate a (directed, possibly acyclic) graph and do arbitrary things with a depth-first search on it
 
Directed Adjacency graph? Is that the same as a directed acyclic graph? (That's what I meant for DAG)
 
/me needs to add examples
@LeviMorrison - an adacency graph is a method for representing graph data; it keeps track of vertices and out-edges. the adjacency graph type can be used to represent directed or undirected graphs, acyclic or cyclic ones
 
Interesting.
 
1:06 AM
@LeviMorrison A DAG is a type of graph. Adjanency list is a structure of a graph
 
@LeviMorrison there's two classes there, one for directed and one for undirected; easiest/cheapest way to figure out cycles is to traverse the graph in one way or another
 
Yeah, all my graph lingo is out of date. I need to brush up on it for sure.
 
bbiab
 
Also, before the conversion to PECL gets under way I'd like to review a lot of basic things like naming conventions.
 
@LeviMorrison: I wouldn't even start it without starting those conversations
 
1:08 AM
Currently things are mix and match. Some things use getName() style while others use name().
 
sure
 
Lots of things like that.
It's good to hear of someone else interested in this though :)
And I could use another brain to help review my work.
 
Guys, is codeigniter dead?
 
View from my balcony (through 600mm of camera lens) flickr.com/photos/89156904@N05/9557307437
I'm off to bed (well, stepping away from the comp), good night
 
1:28 AM
@GiovanniDiToro unfortunately, not yet
 
@LeviMorrison yeah, i'd be happy to involved in such discussions - getting non-useless datatypes into php core would be huge, but still quite a good step to just move them into PECL
i could, yknow, build stuff in userland that doesn't make me want to tear my eyes out
 
2:04 AM
:) I think any library should be written in user land first.
Build a good API.
Plus if you write good test cases it will make the transition to PECL smoother because you have a baseline to shoot for.
@sdboyer Have you looked at Ardent much? I'm not sure how familiar with it. I'm not familiar with your library at all.
 
@LeviMorrison hearty agreement that we should work out the API in userland first
@LeviMorrison i've spent a fair bit of time looking through it. i originally was going to use it in writing gliph (specifically the hashmap as a way of allowing object or non-object vertices), but the php 5.4 requirement was a dealbreaker initially
@LeviMorrison i started writing it b/c we needed a proper graph system to solve a couple of problems in Drupal 8, and that's php 5.3, so i had to stick with that. as i said before though, i'm planning on taking it to 5.5, at which point i see no reason not to use Ardent to back it
there's no way you could be familiar with gliph, since i just pushed that 0.1.0 tag about twelve hours ago :)
so, i haven't implemented anything with Ardent, but i nicked your hashmap implementation at first, until it became too much of a PITA to try to keep the graph classes clean while supporting scalar and object vertex types
 
2:23 AM
And please let me know if you have design issues while using it.
 
i definitely will
actually, let me look at it again real quick...
 
I have decent tests so I don't expect you'll have technical issues with it, but you might
 
yeah, my (potential) issues weren't about whether it worked, they were more in the vein of interface simplicity
 
Well, originally they were much simpler, but I decided a full featured API would be more helpful.
I think it's better overall but it's definitely more complex.
 
sorry, let me clarify that
simplicity of using the interface for my particular use case
i like a full-featured set of collection-style operations
so, for example
with my crappy oversimplified storage, iterating over each vertex in a graph is done like this: github.com/sdboyer/gliph/blob/php53/src/Gliph/Graph/…
that's tightly coupled with using SplObjectStorage to hold the vertices (the getInfo() call). to keep my stuff simpler in 5.3-land, i decided to just restrict it to only object vertices, because i didn't have something like your hashmap
and when i allowed object/non-objects/mixed vertices, i was finding myself writing different logic to interact with the collection storing the vertices
 
2:33 AM
Well let me know if you have any ideas for improvements.
 
which then spiraled out into the classes interacting with the graph: github.com/sdboyer/gliph/blob/php53/src/Gliph/Traversal/… . but that was with my crappy implementation. i think switching to Ardent will let me use the same methods to interact with the vertex sets, and other data, which will let me keep my codebase terse
i will, for sure
oh, one question, though
if you port to 5.5, have you decided how to handle that with your version numbering?
 
I'm not sure what you mean?
 
btw, i would strongly support shifting to 5.5 with Ardent, generators are sooo much nicer than passing around callables
 
Like, I'm at 0.8.1, what would it be if I moved to 5.5?
 
yep
would you increment your major version number? your minor version? do you just EOL the 5.4 stuff at 0.8.1?
 
2:36 AM
Well, before 1.0.0 release I'll just do something like 0.9.0 >.<
Pre 1.0.0 I don't follow any scheme.
 
:)
sure, that's fair
i realize that the presupposing question here is, "if you go to 5.5, do you see any value in continuing the 5.4-compatible work?"
 
Oh, no. It would fully embrace 5.5
 
yeah ok, cool. i need to keep my 5.3 support around in some form (though maybe just frozen as it is now) for Drupal, so i'm trying to figure out how to reconcile that with porting to 5.5
 
As long as you keep the same public API you could have different branches.
Or you could just do different branches anyway.
 
i could, but that doesn't solve my semver numbering problem, unfortunately
and with generators + non-scalar keys being the big draw of 5.5, i wouldn't want to keep a consistent interface in order to adopt those
 
2:44 AM
Yeah. This is one reason I don't get into the multi-PHP releases when they require codebase changes.
I really need to learn coroutines, for sure. I do know that if generators had been written when I did the binary tree stuff we wouldn't have those iterators.
Because that code was really difficult to work out in iterator format, but generators make it an absolute breeze.
 
yep yep
 
I need help getting the local time when doing time() in PHP. Local time of the user, that is, since everything is GMT if people use the web app in some other part of the world, it will get messed up.
 
Do you know their timezone?
 
Unfortunately, not. Someone could be on the website in California. Someone might be in China or France.
 
user652649
morning
 
3:00 AM
evening..
isn't there a clue as to client timezone in the the http request... researching....
nevermind :(
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl you can always filter it through javascript before displaying to user... It will be aware of the local time zone and is capable of making the translation from utc to local time
 
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl this shows how to use that technique.
 
m59
3:23 AM
Hey guys. I had an odd problem. For testing, I am logging in via the address bar and then checking that the session is good like this: mysite.com/api/?mode=auth&method=checkLogin
That works and shows that everything is good to go.
However, when I make a get ajax call to the same url to verify I am logged in, the session doesn't exist at all.
and checking via the address bar shows that I am indeed logged out.
It's like the ajax is somehow destroying the session.
Makes no sense.
I'd think it's some directory problem....but only the api deals with the session, so the ajax location shouldn't matter.
Right?
 
It seems that somehow the cookies are not sent when doing Ajax?
So, it receives a new cookie and that overwrites the existing one.
 
m59
even worse. It just worked all of a sudden.
Whaaaatttt.
Then broke :(
//session_set_cookie_params('', '', '', false, true);
session_start();
//session_regenerate_id(true);
There it is
I have to comment out those two lines.
I don't see how that caused a problem..
 
Not sure about that first line, but the regenerate_id call shouldn't cause any issues.
 
m59
Ignore the cookie params, the regenerate is definitely breaking it.
It won't keep a state at all as long as that is present.
whaaat the heck.
 
@m59 with session_regenerate_id you have to make sure a request completes prior to issuing another request to the same server or the server session_id and the clients session cookie to get out of sync.
 
3:33 AM
^^ Valid point :)
 
m59
Could it be the tabs?
 
Assuming the code is inside a DOM ready event handler, it should just work.
 
@jack It becomes very evident if you write slow queries and you have click happy clients :)
 
m59
I have 3 tabs open, one to log in via address bar, one to check login via address bar, and the other to make the ajax call
 
@Orangepill Hehe yeah. That's why you shouldn't regenerate all the time :)
 
m59
3:35 AM
The ajax call does fire on ready
 
@m59 Only the login should have regenerate
 
m59
That's probably it.
Doh.
 
It gets funnier when you do session_regenerate_id(false) :)
 
m59
Because I'm accessing the api all the time, and it's regenerating constantly.
That's it, right?
 
Yeah.
 
m59
3:36 AM
Is it ok to put the regenerate further down (unlike session_start())?
What I mean is, the same api file will include the login stuff when it needs it.
 
Regenerating the session is useful to prevent fixation attacks, whenever the user level changes.
 
m59
So, the regenerate will be in that other file.
 
What do you mean by "further down"?
 
m59
It works :)
I just mean that there would be some api logic, then if needed, the auth.php will be included and that contains the session regenerate.
It seems to work fine.
Before, every call to the api was regenerating. I guess that should have thrown up a flag in my head =D
 
@m59 so long as you do it before output is sent to the client it should be good.
 
m59
3:40 AM
I was kind of like this:
Thanks so much for the help, dudes.
 
@sdboyer I am going to do some more learning about coroutines and see if there are areas that could be benefitted by it.
 
4:00 AM
coroutines... what black magic is that?
 
So SO uses UTC time?
 
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl yep.
 
Then how does it determine the "posted x minutes ago" thing on chat messages?
It has to have the local time (my current time) in mind to determine that.
 
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl Nope. It doesn't.
Because SO knows when you posted something, the time difference is the same for you.
 
4:13 AM
So I might as well just use UTC time for my app instead of having to worry about changing it local time with the timezone stuff and all?
 
Right.
Timezones are crap, UTC rocks.
 
What do popular websites like Instagram, Facebook, Twitter etc. use?
 
Servers, lots of them.
 
I mean the time format. Do they configure all the timezones or do they use UTC time?
 
Daylight Savings Time and the SI measuring system need to die.
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl I'm sure they use the same time zone... it is very likely UTC.
 
4:24 AM
Morning'
 
(UGT) Evening
@Jack good read... php has come a long way since I first started with it.
 
Current time in Amsterdam: wednesday, 21 augustus 2013, 06:26:32 CEST
 
Interesting how the weekday is in English but the month is Dutch =P
 
Yes changes the day since otherwise you guys couldn't read but forgot the month.
 
more-ning all. :)
 
4:30 AM
You noticed that fast xd @Jack
 
Also, days and months are supposed to be title cased :)
But since this is chat, who cares.
 
Hahahah
 
I go on break for a week and the close-vote backlog reaches 70K+ Do I have to do all the work? =oP
 
@crypticツ we are lost without your guidance :)
 
@crypticツ hakre and peehaa doing your job. :)
 
4:33 AM
@YogeshSuthar That explains it, too much beer involved >.<
 
too much beer... no such thing
 
What I don't understand is that when I need to display a date, using unix timestamp will display it in UTC/GMT date/time which will mess everything.
 
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl let the client determine the appropriate timezone, they are the only ones that know with any level of certainty what it is.... that is unless you have them tell you.
 
user652649
@crypticツ there wasn't enough pink! here is what was wrong and that I couldn't understand O_o hello :P:P where you have been?
 
Well, I thought about making the use tell me their time zone. But you look at big websites like facebook and twitter and they don't ask you (or I don't remember them asking). There must be some way they determine it.
 
user652649
4:50 AM
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl they use javascript
 
user652649
or they geolocate the ip
 
geo-ip isn't failsafe.... geo-ip is off by about 2100 miles for me :)
 
In your opinion(s), what would be the better option: using JS to determine the timezone and time offset (which apparently doesn't account for Daylight Savings) or asking user for their timezone?
 
user652649
I think FB has a IP database good enough to determine their timezone
 
user652649
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl use all the methods, log the js value, the IP and what they arbitrarily choose. this is how i do and in some years I will get a db good enough to determine (or estimate at least) the correct timezone only by IP
 
5:01 AM
Ok. I have one last question. I tried doing the timezoneoffset in JS and it gave me a number. I am not sure what I am supposed to do with that number to get the local date and time.
 
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl JS should account for DST so long as the client is configured to observe DST
 
@crypticツ we're trying
also .. wtf
it was 68k two days ago
 
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl You are probably overthinking it.
var date = new Date(utcDate);
date.toString();
 
you are talking to the tiny-people again
and this is not JS chat room
 
user652649
@tereško define "tiny-people"
 
5:16 AM
lol @tereško tries too hard to insult me. Take it easy "tough" guy.
@Orangepill utcDate undefined
 
user652649
ignore him
 
user652649
for me everybody is welcome
 
user652649
anyway
 
user652649
var date = new Date();
date.getTimezoneOffset();
 
5:25 AM
@Wes been buzy, still am, just dropping by for a bit. Heading back out though, see you all later. =o)
 
getTimezoneOffset() doesn't work right.
 
user652649
@crypticツ :P later
 
user652649
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl what do you mean?
 
For example, it shows 420 for me, which is 7 hours. In reality, the correct answer is 5 hours.
If I subtract 5 hours (not 7 hours as suggested by JS), I get to my current local time.
 
user652649
browsers use the OS settings... are your timezone OS settings properly set?
 
5:32 AM
It is, but it still shows 7 and goes back 2 hours more than it needs to.
 
user652649
what is your location?
 
user652649
so it's -4 in winter and -5 in summer?
 
yes
it should be -5 right now and it is.
60*60*5=18000
time()-18000=my local time
 
user652649
check if other browsers give you the same value
 
5:38 AM
but the JS offset thing says 7 instead of 5.
 
7 + 5 = 12 .. or rather, 7 = 12 - 5
 
IE9 gives me 4. :S
 
user652649
which browser is wrong?
 
Both lol
4 is too low and 7 is too high. It should be 5.
Chrome gives 7 and IE9 gives 4. 4 is closer to 5 than 7, so IE9 is closer to being correct, but still not correct.
 
There's no such thing as closer to being correct. It's either correct or it isn't.
 
5:42 AM
Well yes, by both browsers are wrong and I don't even know what to say, really.
 
Interesting
> With this precise accuracy of time, UTC was born. UTC, which stands for Coordinated Universal Time in English and Temps universel coordonné in French, was abbreviated UTC as a compromise between CUT and TUC in English and French, respectively.
So UTC was the chosen abbreviation so it would be equally wrong in both languages... seems stupid..
 
user652649
here all browsers show the same -120, which is correct
 
user652649
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl OS?
 
m59
What is the actual reason that session_start() is supposed to be at the top of files?
Is it really that it just needs to be before any output?
 
@m59 It has to come before any output is sent, that's all.
 
m59
5:46 AM
Sweet.
 
m59
I thought so. My server-side is just an api that puts together a json and outputs it as the dead last thing.
 
user652649
no idea what the issue could be @TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl
 
user652649
even the f***ing time isn't a certainty when talking about internet browsers
 
dangit it's cold!
 
user652649
5:52 AM
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl what about firefox?
 
Don't know. Too lazy to download it.
 
user652649
check on other systems too
 
user652649
it may be an issue of your very computer
 
Cannot reproduce date error on Chrome on linux .
 
XY Problem with mostly X answers :)
 
6:19 AM
After almost 20 years as Orangepill I am considering changing my handle because of this
 
@tereško when i connecting to the localhost via ssh using php script(phpseclib) it's not connecting .but when i connect to the remote server it's ok
$sshLocalhost = new Net_SSH2('127.0.0.1');
if (!$sshLocalhost->login('Administrator', 'pass')) {
exit('Login Failed localhost');
}
 Administrator and the pass are UBUNTU root user credentials
 
@Orangepill You just need to change the avatar to a "happier" mr men :)
 
Cannot authenticate over localhost?
 
@Jack I might go that route and embrace it ... or just censor the appropriate region... that might be better
 
6:25 AM
@ఠ_ఠ did you check the ssh configuration whether something related to login has not been disabled ?
for example, usually people disable ability to login with root directly through ssh
 
where is the config file in LAMP(UBUNTU) O_o..
 
@ఠ_ఠ /etc/ssh/sshd_config
 
default # PasswordAuthentication yes
but not connecting
 
PermitRootLogin no
 
6:32 AM
can i add that line ?
 
no
find the line that says PermitRootLogin
and see what it says
 
nothing was found
 
did you open "sshd_config" file and not "ssh_config"?
 
in etc/ssh/ssh_config is there are not sshd
 
wat
english , please
 
6:35 AM
He's saying there's no sshd_config, I think.
 
there are two files in that directory
moduli and ssh_config
 
Anonymous
ping
 
well .. have I pointed out how much i hate Ubuntu this month ?
 
:)
 
i'm quite serious
it's the codeigniter of NIX'es
 
create a file sshd_config in that directory
and add a line: PermitRootLogin yes
 
ok
 
and then restart ssh service
sudo service ssh restart should do the trick
.. i think
 
ssh: unrecognized service
O_o
 
service = sshd
 
6:40 AM
@Jack hey , how can i know?! I copied crap from google
 
Now you know :)
 
actually you can never tell
 
Yeah, even though it's SysV, distros are free to name it whatever the f*ck they want.
 
i was responsible for managing two centOS boxes few month ago - one 5.6 other not
 
6:43 AM
one needed service mysqld start .. other service mysql start
 
morning
 
If there's both a server and client of something I feel that the d suffix should be there for the service.
 
both had clients and servers
one was box for development environment .. other for staging
(I actually suspect that CentOS version were the same)
 
Think it just maps to the .conf file in /etc/init/ (at least on debian distros)
 
It seems that they like to change it from time to time, just to mess with you.
 
6:46 AM
basically - my general impression of linux distros is: "chaos"
 
I need some advice I'm calculating some things with value's from a query and use strtotime for a date, how would I on a mouse click update all those variable values to example an other one.
 
@Tredged depends ... can you find a developer nearby ?
 
@tereško lol
 
honesty - I didn't even understand the question (I'm assuming it was a question, even though it lacked the question mark "?")
 
6:51 AM
lmao
 
I'm glad someone is having fun over this.
 
... or any punctuation
 
Punctuation? That's so last century. If someone doesn't follow, just repeat the message in all caps.
 
=]
 
I'm calculating some things with value's from a query, and use strtotime() in a variable for this monday's date. How would I on a mouse click update the strttotime variable to another date ?
as you wish ;x
 
6:54 AM
PHP and mouse clicks don't go together.
 
ajax.
 
Also, strtotime is not a variable, but a function name.
@YogeshSuthar Give him some time to properly formulate the question :)
 
Sem
Does anyone here have experience with SASS and/or HAML? Seeing good reviews about it.
 
ajax is a must to make you project buzzword compliant.
 
@Jack I know, and also its in a variable I'm not saying its a variable.
 
6:57 AM
@Sem Played with sass/compass ... pretty promising ... haven't used it for reals though
 
@Sem then start learning Rails
 
Sem
@tereško There is no need apparently :) code.google.com/p/phamlp
 
oh .. the joy
 

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