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Xeo
7:00 PM
> Generic lambda-capture initializers, supporting capture-by-move
might also be interesting
(You can really see in the choices where my strong points with the language lie...)
 
sbi
@Xeo That's the guy who started boost!
Damn, those young people don't even know who Beman is.
 
Xeo
lol
 
@Xeo It's a short and sweet proposal.
 
sbi
@Xeo Is that what Bjarne called "terse templates"? Something like void sort(For b, For e) (note: no template)?
 
7:02 PM
@Xeo Yeah, it's hilarious... One of my favorites this season so far. :)
 
one presumes this to be the paper
 
Xeo
@sbi Nah, template<using class T, T v> void foo(); and then foo<42>()
Deducing the type of the non-type argument, basically
@Mysticial I through myself away at Hentai Ouji - so good.
 
sbi
@Xeo Ah. Neat. I hadn't heard about this one.
 
@Xeo I just started that one too. Looks promising.
 
Xeo
7:04 PM
@Mysticial I read the manga, and I think it's great.
Oh yeah, I also wonder how Jonathan's indices proposal will fly
That should be LEWG
 
N3493?
 
Xeo
Yea
 
DELETED ACCOUNT AND I HAVE CREATED IT AGAIN... NOW MY PROBLEM GOT RESOLVED... I CAN NOW ABLE TO POST QUESTIONS — Sonu T. B 2 mins ago
^^ oh god...
Let's start taking bets to see when the user gets banned again...
 
listed as Thursday morning in the LEWG
 
Xeo
Wait, where's that proposal about selective ADL...
 
7:06 PM
@Mysticial 7 minutes from now.
 
-1
Q: How does one make a question go 'viral'

MDMoore313Some questions get tremendous amounts of views in a short time, such as this one which got 36k views in the first day, but the questions before and after it (that weren't closed) didn't even squeak 100 (like this one). Asking a good question (a 'stumper' or canonical question) would probably play...

^^ lol
 
Xeo
Btw, I also like the map and set splicing proposal
Nice ideas there
 
yeah
 
Opinions on Hungarian Notation?
 
N3573, N3586, and N3465 are all scheduled to go together
 
7:09 PM
@Xeo Those can't be messed like std::list was, can they?
 
tomorrow
@LucDanton If you can criticise the paper, I can bring those up on Tuesday.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Well, I think those splices are only about single-elements and full maps / sets
Unless I forgot some part
 
@Xeo No, you didn't.
 
Xeo
So yeah, log N I think?
 
N3586 is pretty simple and I expect it to be accepted without too much problem
 
7:11 PM
@Pawnguy7 No.
 
@Pawnguy7 the proper one or the fucked up one?
 
Xeo
No wait, O(1) since you supply an iterator
 
I was not aware there were different versions.
 
Xeo
Ah, right, there are O(1) and O(log N) versions
 
@Xeo O(log N) is really just remove(find(key)), and the find is O(log N)
 
Xeo
7:13 PM
yeah
Hm, although merging whole sets might be N log N, not sure
Ah, wait, log N still
I should stop talking :)
 
nah
merging two sets would have to be at least order N.
 
@Pawnguy7 go educate then. Start on CodingHorror
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Yep, got confused. The example implementation is also N log M
 
sbi
Well, @Xeo, that tool worked, and I have now access to that machine.
 
Xeo
cool
Did you atleast try my other suggestion though?
 
sbi
7:17 PM
This is a 256MB XP machine. When nothing but the task manager runs, it shows 242MB used.
 
Xeo
woah
 
sbi
@Xeo Which one?
 
Xeo
How old is that thing?
@sbi ctrl-alt-del in login screen
 
sbi
@Xeo Ah, that. No. Lemme try...
Um. You're right. Sheepish Look.
@Xeo How would I know?
 
Xeo
@sbi haha
I always abused that to get access to the PC when my parents weren't home
 
7:20 PM
lol
 
@DeadMG It's an extremely solid paper. My would-be objection doesn't really apply -- the paper presents a new remove member, but none of the existing one take iterators pairs. Only splice does, and this paper doesn't introduce such a member.
 
@LucDanton Well, I shall be there when it's discussed, I expect.
 
@Xeo And you grumbled when you had to prevent your brother to make the same!
 
Xeo
Of course
Also, *do
 
Is it possible to implement is_literal[_type] without compiler support?
 
Xeo
@rubenvb Check constructability in constant expression context, I guess?
 
@Xeo is constexpr like noexcept in that it can "return" a bool?
 
Xeo
no
 
damn
 
Xeo
foo<(T(), 0)> with template<int> foo();
Something like that, I guess?
 
7:23 PM
but I suppose a string literal counts as literal_type, no?
 
@DeadMG I'm curious why the proposal didn't mention multi-element operations. Not that they would be needed (the proposal is plenty useful already), but they could have been discussed. So if it comes up, you might want to take notice :p
 
Xeo
@rubenvb No
 
@LucDanton Erasing multiple nodes at once?
 
Xeo
At that point, you'd be splicing out entire sets
Which might also be cool, I guess
 
Does anybody here use GIMP?
 
7:25 PM
Ya. The proposal has 'splicing' in the title, but nothing like the splice overload of lists that takes an iterator pair. (Which would have been their killer feature, if not for the complexity req. fiasco but I digress.)
@Xeo There is an overload that takes a container though. And pilfers it.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Yeah, that's splicing in
 
@rubenvb It doesn't matter because literal types are useless.
 
@LucDanton ok, then I'll leave that out :)
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Well, the same complexity reqs apply to map and set, no?
 
@Pawnguy7 it's terrible
 
Xeo
7:27 PM
Btw, I was thinking, if they opted for O(1) range-splice, you could put O(1) size() on top of that at the expense of O(1) splice, if you really wanted / needed it - but the other way around can't work
 
Well, it is open source.
 
user142019
My ass is open-source.
 
Just wondering, did anybody here try out Rust?
 
user142019
Yes, but not me.
 
Hm.
 
7:29 PM
public:
    App()
        : console(glm::ivec2(80, 4))
        , luaVm([this](std::string const& error) {
            this->console.write(error);
        })
    {
 
You can't make a specular shader without an eye position...
 
btw @Xeo I met Clark
 
I am starting to write strange code
 
@ThePhD well, that's kind of obvious, no?
 
7:30 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, but the weird thing is...
 
@Xeo I don't mind as much. I don't think it can be avoided, what with preserving the invariants/ordering of the structure.
 
XNA's BasicEffect does specular, but has no Eye Position parameter.
... So how are they doing specular shading? o.0
 
why should I even care?
 
8
A: Complexity of std::list::splice and other list containers

PotatoswatterThis was a very contentious topic during the standardization of C++11. The problem is that all standard containers, including lists, also have a constant-time size operation. Before C++11, many implementations made size linear time and splice between different lists constant time. C++11 now requ...

 
prolly use camera position or someshit
 
7:30 PM
For the sake of learning.
 
Because you are human, presumably.
 
Relevant?
 
@ThePhD for the sake of learning just write the goddamn shader
 
Ahhhh
In the shader, they do have a EyePosition variable.
 
7:32 PM
SO how are they computing it? From the view matrix?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't mind me, just saying ridiculous shit~
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ohai robot! Have I got news for you.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Ah, and?
 
@ThePhD ridiculous~ FTFY
 
Be quick, I want to go to sleep before ten.
 
@Xeo And I left a note for the Evolution group to kindly schedule your paper at some point.
 
Xeo
7:34 PM
Oh, ok, thx
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Simply put, the LEWG kicked the Unicode proposal's arse, and demanded that the string type should not be flexible, but have only one encoding allowed.
 
Warning that our games will require constant connect.... of electrical energy.
^ hahahaha
 
Anyone know how to get cmake to add test source files to IDE project files?
 
@LucDanton Jesus, it looked better before :F
 
7:36 PM
@LucDanton What the holy shit. o.0
 
@ThePhD Template errors = fun.
 
@Griwes A mess.
 
@JerryCoffin Thank you, captain.
 
Xeo
Btw Puppy, did you get to talk with Richard?
 
who?
oh, Richard Smith?
 
Xeo
7:38 PM
Richard Smith, zygoloid, the constexpr Clang guy
 
no, we haven't run into each other yet
 
@Griwes Anytime -- always a pleasure to ... help.
 
@rubenvb Which tests? CMake has add_test command for adding tests (for instance, based on projects already in solution) to test-suite. Or you can add custom unit testing like Boost.Test via stand-alone project.
 
@DeadMG well, is it at least still with the agnostic interface?
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk yes, but the add_test source files don't show up in my IDE.
 
7:39 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I expect that it will have, yes. But more importantly, being shot down means that it almost certainly won't be in C++14.
 
@rubenvb check github.com/panaseleus/stack_unwinding/blob/master/examples/… - first, add test as add_executable, second use it in add_test
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk aha. Nice stuff. Thanks for that! Free upboats for you!
 
@DeadMG That means more time to get it right!
hehe
 
heh
but it means much longer to go until users get the feature :P
however, there is a small chance that if I prepare the revisions this week, then they might get in.
anyway, I was just amazed that they did not like the encoding template/policy system.
 
@DeadMG Meh, I'll have ogonek ready by then :P
 
7:43 PM
should hope so
LEWG weren't too impressed when I told them I didn't have an implementation prepared
 
The most obvious way is to build a Rube Goldberg machine. Almost any problem can be solved with these if you are creative! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machineDeltaLima 2 mins ago
 
Erm, it's not like no one before implemented the Unicode algorithms.
 
yeah
it was mostly about some of the iterator stuff
at least, I think that was it.
 
@Mysticial actually, netbeans builds projects automatically
 
@sehe I.. what?
 
7:46 PM
@Rapptz The funny splotches on the bottom-right of your screen.
I assumed they were like anime character overlays or something. :P
 
That's my desktop background.
 
Ah.
 
My command line is pseudo embedded in my desktop.
 
I don't get this.
The following iterative sequence is defined for the set of positive integers:
`n -> n/2 (n is even)`
`n -> 3n + 1 (n is odd)`
 
@Crowz ah, that's not proven yet, is it?
 
7:47 PM
It's a PE problem.
 
@FredOverflow found something you might like:
 
@BartekBanachewicz nah, it's not, but it's for a project euler problem
 
@Crowz seems easy
 
@Crowz Googling for "Collatz conjecture" should turn up some useful results.
 
Two bombs detonated in Boston, sad day
 
7:48 PM
@JohanLarsson At the Boston Marathon.
Fun stuff. :D <sarcasm/>
 
Like... is it saying if n is even, do n/2, and if n is odd, do 3n+1 ?
 
@ThePhD how the fuck is that fun?
 
@JohanLarsson Explosions, we'll hold off on "bombs" until we know something
 
@Crowz do n = n/2, or n = 3n+1
 
@BartekBanachewicz Explicitly tagged.
 
7:48 PM
@Collin yeah let's hope it is some kind of freak accident
 
@JohanLarsson Two in close succession makes that incredibly unlikely I think, but who knows?
 
man... I'm going to Boston tonight for a game developer conference
 
@Crowz Yes. For some examples:
86
Q: Code Golf: Collatz Conjecture

EarlzInspired by http://xkcd.com/710/ here is a code golf for it. The Challenge Given a positive integer greater than 0, print out the hailstone sequence for that number. The Hailstone Sequence See Wikipedia for more detail.. If the number is even, divide it by two. If the number is odd, tripl...

 
@Collin I was gonna say, two explosions in such a short period. Bombs are a sure bet
then again, maybe gas lines?
 
@Collin Two almost immediately after each other could be (for example) one setting off the other. The 15 second interval is much more suspicious (IMO).
 
7:51 PM
Do you get points from CW questions?
 
@Collin does not look like an accident but let's still hope it is not terrorism.
 
@Borgleader It's very likely, but the news hit the local news websites only 10 minutes ago, witness testimonies are very likely panicked and confused for the moment
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk You are the bomb. This works great!
Any way to prevent a regular build from building all the tests automatically though?
 
@rubenvb cool :)
 
actually
 
7:56 PM
@rubenvb do you need to build them? or they are built separatly?
 
Because there's some tests that fail on compilation (static_assert and all)
 
I think that I might have another shot with LEWG since Beman's proposal is fairly similar
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk yeah, they're just full of static_asserts
But I don't want to build them unless I'm running the tests.
 
@rubenvb I think need to try remove ALL_BUILD dependncy on such tests
 
I could suggest some machine learning algorithm, but I'm afraid I could get sued if I suggested a suboptimal one. — larsmans 1 min ago
 
8:02 PM
@rubenvb or just make "group" project which depends on projects you really want to build. And build that "group" project when you need.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG You should definitly consider collaborating with him
@ThePhD No
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk is that also for non-VS projects? (I'm on Qt Creator which uses the Codeblocks project stuff I think)
 
@rubenvb yes, CMake dependencies are cross-platform.
 
Now all I need is remove_dependencies :P
 
@rubenvb Qt Creator uses .pro for its project files
 
8:05 PM
oh wait, If EXCLUDE_FROM_ALL is given the corresponding property will be set on the created target. See documentation of the EXCLUDE_FROM_ALL target property for details.
 
@Rapptz QT Creator support CMakeLists.txt
 
@Rapptz it handles CMake just fine.
 
Yeah, it makes CMake files too.
 
shit. If the EXCLUDE_FROM_ALL argument is provided then targets in the subdirectory will not be included in the ALL target of the parent directory by default, **and will be excluded from IDE project files.**
 
@rubenvb yes, looks like it is what you need
 
8:06 PM
nope
 
ah, ok
 
@Xeo Yep.
 
Aarrgh build systems
Aaargh IDEs
 
Xeo
"Aaargh programming"?
 
@rubenvb SCons
@rubenvb vim, though QTC is nice
 
8:08 PM
oh dude
Then I'll have two problems
 
Xeo
Oh yeah, I should open a thread on std-proposals about []stuff
 
Well, three actually.
 
@rubenvb hm?
 
@BartekBanachewicz SCons, vim, and Qt Creator. Now I only have CMake and Qt Creator
 
CMake + VS + VSAssistX
 
8:10 PM
@EvgenyPanasyuk VS compiler :/
@Xeo can stuff be any expr?
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, that is bad side for now
 
My code can't be compiled by MSVC. constexpr all over the place
although I might be able to mitigate that, I'm not gonna.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz id-expression
 
is the collatz stuff intended to be recursive?
 
Xeo
Which basically means "a name"
 
8:11 PM
ie, I take the number, do an operation onto it, and then feed that number back into the function?
 
Xeo
Although []std::get<0> and similar shenanigans work too :)
 
@rubenvb constexpr... one of projects I work on must be compiled by VS2003-2012, and GCC 4.x, both x32 and x64.
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk muhuhaha sucks to be you :D
 
My code can't be compiled by the snapshot that is newer by two weeks. Or something.
 
Xeo
I'd really like to generalize this to template<identifier id> actually, with which the []stuff could be implemented trivially as a library type. However, the question here becomes one of scope, which I can cleverly circumvent by []stuff being a language feature.
 
8:13 PM
@rubenvb On the spare time, I have fun with C++14 concepts, as compensation :)
 
@Crowz Normally iterative, but in Lisp (for example) the most convenient way to implement iteration is often recursion...
 
Xeo
Which reminds me, I didn't include any discussion on the scopes available inside the lifting lambda, but then again the lifting-lambda itself is marked as TBD
 
@JerryCoffin doesn't LISP use almost entirely recursion?
 
@Crowz Yes -- exactly my point.
 
in python, it would probably be better to append each to a list and return the list?
 
8:18 PM
@Crowz if python generators(yield) are appropriate here - they would be better
 
@Crowz Perhaps -- but you'd generally rather not store the whole list if you can avoid it.
 
@JerryCoffin for project Euler, would it simply be better to have an int? It would just return the size. projecteuler.net/problem=14
 
@Crowz Yes, probably. Specifically, you want to keep track of the longest sequence you've seen so far, and keep the current sequence iif it's longer than that.
 
Hm.
I need LZMA, I think.
 
@JerryCoffin what I was thinking was implementing a method that would return the number of pieces in the sequence, then another method that would perform that on every number and return the highest value
 
8:24 PM
@Crowz Sounds reasonable.
 
> C'est une fausse balle, l'arbitre en sort une vraie
 
> GHC seems to acquire new extensions faster than extensions acquire detailed tutorials...
 
Why are you using a list? o.o
 
@EtiennedeMartel Am I missing some cross-Atlantic cultural bit?
 
@LucDanton You know François Perusse?
 
8:27 PM
Barely.
 
Oh ya that's a trademark pun.
> le frappeur
@EtiennedeMartel Had no idea he's from Quebec. How did I miss that?
 
@LucDanton Good question.
From what I heard, when he first started in France, people thought he had some Arabic origin because his accent wasn't flawless.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah I can see (well, hear) that. But you have to be unfamiliar with Quebec French though.
 
Xeo
Everytime I read "Quebec", I pronounce it as "kebeck" in my head, which leads to "Gebäck" and me wanting some.
 
8:34 PM
Guys
 
@ThePhD No.
 
@Xeo "Kebeck" is actually the official NATO pronounciation.
 
Where would you put things like Zlib and LZMA compression in your libraries?
 
Xeo
Good to know!
 
(Because Quebec is the Q in the NATO alphabet)
 
Xeo
8:35 PM
Still doesn't solve the Gebäck problem
 
Lib/System ? Lib/IO ? (Lib/System/IO :O?)
 
Xeo
deps
 
However, the usual English pronounciation is "Kwebeck".
So try saying it like that.
 
@Xeo Namespace-wise, though, I mean.
Of course it's going in deps. :D
(I picked that up from Cat, btw. Using a deps folder or just a bin and lib folder 'n' STUFF)
 
Xeo
I have no clue whatsoever about library design, but why expose those at all?
 
8:37 PM
I've finally decided I'm sick of copying around 20 shaders with my engine.
So I'm going to roll them all into a 7z file and then embed that in a DLL.
 
Xeo
Sure, but why do you want to expose zlib / lzma?
 
Or just roll them into the 7z file and put that next to the DLL.
@Xeo Because other things aside from that can benefit from Zlib / LZMA.
The implementation will be opaque to the user.
They won't have to include LZMA stuff or anything.
But the engine will come with that functionality by default.
Does that make sense? :O
 
Xeo
I don't think it's your engine's job to provide compression / zipping, but whatever.
As I said, I suck at design
 
My engine isn't going to provide the ability to compress or zip. It's really going to be in there so that I can call Decompress( inbytes, outbytes ) inside of an LZMA object or static function or something.
 
Xeo
Oh look, another one wanting constexpr parameters: groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msg/std-proposals/RdAK-0RyiY0/…
 
8:40 PM
LZMAStream. <3
 
> the problem would be (mostly) solved once and for all with a real AST-based macro system.
 
Xeo
Decompression is part of compression.
@LucDanton Good luck getting that into the language
 
Ya know, it really looks like a lot of people are euphoric in this post C++11 climate, as if they had figured out that since C++ has added things, now is the time to add everything else.
 
Hm.
 
r m
anybody familiar with the following informational meesage: D3D11 INFO: Destroy ID3D11ClassLinkage: Name="unnamed", Addr=... [ STATE_CREATION INFO #...: DESTROY_CLASSLINKAGE] . I've been trying to hunt it down and give the interface a debug name but I haven't been able to find it. From what I've read it seems to have something to do with HLSL but I haven't been able identify it.
 
8:44 PM
We need to distill that Bjarne rebuttal and unfairly mangle it into one pythy, summarily dismissive quote.
 
@Xeo Uh. I know you said you suck at design, but I miiiiight need your help with figuring out if my stream API is worth much...
 
Boost type traits are truly unreadable.
 
Xeo
Obviously, they use macros to hide the cruft
 
There's usually no cruft IMO.
 
Xeo
Redundancy, then
If you wanna take a look at it, it's really advisable to pipe it through g++ -E first
 
8:46 PM
i've got a nice thing going for almost all of 'm
 
Xeo
@ThePhD I'm bad with streams, I'm bad with APIs, I'm bad with design - still sure you want to ask me? :P
 
@Xeo We can be bad together. <3333
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Addressing the overly generic proposals specifically?
 
I've been reading through the ios_base, ios, and istream and ostream docs, and the weird thing is
locale doesn't appear at like, the istream and ostream levels
 
Xeo
Don't take iostreams as an example for streams.
 
8:49 PM
Things like fill-width, floating-point-precision, are placed at like, teh ios_base level.
Which means every stream has them.
Forever.
 
@Xeo No. Mostly those that suggest new syntax or otherwise add to the language to solve exactly one program/use-case.
 
@ScottW F5 while the project is highlighted?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Should I be concerned?
 
Oh right.
Well, maybe.
 
@Xeo Uh, well okay.
 
8:51 PM
Also problem, not program.
 
Bombs detonated in Boston. Two dead, at least 28 injured.
 
@ThePhD One more time: nearly all an iostream is/does is broker a marriage between a locale and a stream buffer. If you don't want formatting kinds of things, you probably want to use a stream buffer, not a stream.
 
I'm trying to look at a library that has a good base Stream class.
 
Two more bombs found.
 
@JerryCoffin I looked into stream_buf too, and they have things like pubimbue and getlocale, so it seems they're stil dealing with locales and stuff like that.
 
Xeo
8:54 PM
@LucDanton Well, my proposal kinda solves "exactly one problem/use-case" - passing functions by-name :)
 
Yeah I said 'maybe' to be nice.
 
Xeo
But I think it's an important use-case, which enables proper(er) functional programming in C++ which should bring a bunch of functional techniques.
but we'll see what EWG says, if it gets discussed
 
Whoa
 
@ThePhD wowwww
 
C++ streams keep two pointers?
 
8:58 PM
@DomagojPandža yes, we saw that a few hours ago. thanks tho
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit <3
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Sorry, I live under a rock.
 
@DomagojPandža ok
 
It seems like, though
The two stream pointers don't have to be synchronized.
So you can read from the end,
but write from the beginning.
It's mega confusing.
 
Xeo
Not really
 
8:59 PM
@ThePhD this is groovy as fuck
 

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