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3:00 PM
@Chimera you know these chat rooms are not write only
 
@thecoshman Really? :-)
I thought I'd ask for a summation.
 
@Chimera Java sucks, Android sucks
 
Crazy talk as it may be.
@thecoshman I agree with the Java part. Is Objective C better?
 
@Chimera hmm... do I want my left leg cut off, or my right leg?
 
How much do you know about how an Android application works? Because it's not easy to explain the reasons without explaining that.
 
3:02 PM
So you have two activities running on the same thread? Huh?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes All I know is that they run inside a JVM.
 
That's too little :)
And not actually a problem.
 
I was going to learn me some Android, but haven't gotten around to it... maybe I won't now...
 
yay serially downvoted
 
What did you do?
 
3:05 PM
-2
A: how to convert between a container of a derived type to a container of a base type

rubenvbInstead of using the container, use an iterator pair, which is nicely convertible to base class. It solves the problem, and cleans up the code in one go. EDIT: after more info was given, I change my answer to this: Use boost::shared_ptr.

 
Oh, hey, Horde Mode coming to TF2.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I suggested boost::shared_ptr instead of his local rewrite.
 
@rubenvb technically, if it is to be serially it would have to be at least three isolated incidents
 
@EtiennedeMartel Guess spamming new items stopped being effective.
 
@thecoshman oh well. I'm easily offended.
 
3:06 PM
@ecatmur Oh, I just closed the tab upon seeing the question earlier.
 
Maybe someone downvoted because of the link in this room? Just a quess.
I've seen it happen before.
 
@Chimera I'm not a drop-by linker
 
@CatPlusPlus Hey, Valve are pretty much the only good guys we have left in the AAA world.
 
THPS had an awesome soundtrack, modern games suck in comparison
 
Although I'm not convinced it wasn't downvoted by people in this room XD
 
3:07 PM
if I downvoted it, I'd say so
 
@EtiennedeMartel They still managed to screw TF2 badly. :<
 
They are seriously suggesting a container_cast in other answers...
 
@CatPlusPlus How? By making it fun?
 
I'm afraid to post any links here... because they ALWAYS get downvoted. Even though I don't do drive by links.
 
It started to go downhill with microtransactions and then F2P.
It was fun.
 
3:09 PM
@EtiennedeMartel not sure how much longer that will last though
 
Even collecting those stupid items were fun when there was a finite amount of them.
 
@CatPlusPlus What. Don't tell me you're one of those ludites who think microtransactions make a game bad?
 
@Chimera I usually get some form of an upvote or two. But I mostly paste my questions here if I don't get a response I understand.
 
@Chimera maybe you are linking to shit questions/answers?
 
@rubenvb I just stay away from "why isn't this invariant type co-/contra-variant?" questions.
 
3:09 PM
@EtiennedeMartel No, it was bad before that and then it became even worse.
 
"Good guys"? Really? You're not that naive, are you? They're not good or bad, and they've done plenty of bad things
 
Steam is a wholly improvement for something like Skyrim.
 
Exhibit A: recent SSA changes.
 
and then there's that....
 
they're a big company who just so happens to have made a few good games, and bought their way to number of other good games
 
3:10 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Not by themselves, no. But games with microtransactions do tend to be bad, or become bad after the fact.
 
which is great, but doesn't really make them "good" or "bad"
 
@CatPlusPlus How so?
 
Because hey, we have microtransactions, let's make stuff to make people pay.
 
@CatPlusPlus No one forces you to pay, ya know.
 
@CatPlusPlus I have nothing against microtransactions in sofar they don't influence gameplay except visually.
 
3:11 PM
But it often turns into "pay to win"
People who are willing to pay real money get significant in-game advantages, sidelining other players
 
@jalf Ever played TF2? Because it's not what's happening in there.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Note the word "often"
 
@EtiennedeMartel games like WoW and free-to-play uTransactions are no longer designed with a primary focus on fun. There main is to make you want to pay more money, yes this of course covers trying to make them fun, but it's not the same as a game made to be fun for the sake of being fun
 
It's not an inherent problem with freemium models though.
 
Oh gawd, "uTransactions", my eyes.
 
3:13 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes what? standard practice when you don't have a greek keyboard to hand
 
@thecoshman copy from wiki or spell out the prefix
 
you disapprove of 'uC' as well?
 
Doesn't make my eyes any better. Also, people can write "micro-".
Also, I have a greek keyboard layout to hand. :P
 
¬_¬
 
@CatPlusPlus You're just repeating your point, not answering my question.
 
3:14 PM
So, would it be terribly incorrect to say that Valve has changed the game. If you just want to play, well, team fortress, the CTF game, you're out of luck. TF2 has now morphed into something completely different, which some people love, and some people do not love.
 
screw you all
 
It's the "m" key, if you want.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes huh?
 
@thecoshman In the Greek layout.
 
m => milli
u => micro
 
3:14 PM
μ => micro.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oooh, mr fancy Greek letters
 
I feel overwhelmed by the changes and don't find the game that fun any more. Introducing microtransactions is just a milestone I can point at — that's about when game started to feel worse. I feel microtransactions were a factor in that. Maybe not.
 
@thecoshman now you don't even have to go to wiki to get the letter and copy-paste it
Maybe there should be a pinned greek letter post
 
Ok Fred, but the guy wouldn't get anything more fancy anyway. And I hope I pushed him a little into further research
 
autohotkey to the rescue!
 
3:16 PM
@CatPlusPlus Oh. So it's just a standard case of Thay Changed It, Now It Sucks?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Are you implying that's not a valid argument?
 
They changed it for worse and it sucks, yes.
 
Liking or disliking a game is already entirely subjective
 
Though I doubt I will remember it :P
 
But paying $50 for a game you enjoy, only to have Valve go "hey, never mind that, we're turning it into something completely different" might sting a bit
 
3:17 PM
lol, they changed the starfish ad to the one suggested on meta.
 
if you don't like the new game
 
84
A: Is it possible to remove the Careers banner with the dying starfish?

RoryTo address this issue, I suggest the immediate casting of a new, less lackluster starfish. I propose this fellow:

 
@jalf No. I'm criticizing the fact that @CatPlusPlus uses the words "it sucks" to mean "I don't like it".
Stating opinion as fact, actually.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Don't be silly
 
No, stop inferring things that are not there.
 
3:19 PM
So when I say that a movie is "good", I'm wrong because I'm stating opinion as fact?
 
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
They changed it for worse and it sucks, yes.
 
How can "it sucks" be an objective fact unless referring to vaccum cleaners?
11
 
I think it's pretty clear that when someone says a game sucks, they mean "I don't like it"
 
@EtiennedeMartel common practice I am afraid
 
I was paraphrasing your silly trope link.
 
3:19 PM
@jalf yes, it is simply your opinion
 
@EtiennedeMartel I seem to recall you claiming that they made the game "fun"
how exactly is that more justifiable?
 
You guys are a bunch of naggy whores today.
 
Just take a deep breath and realize that you're being irrational because he dislikes something that you feel strongly about
 
and needlessly argumentative.
 
@jalf though it is often said as a response to 'what did you think' which I would consider to wrap your response in a bubble of 'what ever you say is just opinion'
 
3:21 PM
@jalf Indeed.
 
Stop it. Have a beer.
Prosper.
 
I might have talked right out of my ass there.
 
@rubenvb pedantic, not argumentative
 
@rubenvb I'm not naggy.
 
any way
 
3:21 PM
@thecoshman there is no sense in this discussion. Hence pedantic => argumentative == arguing over everything but nothing at all.
 
@rubenvb Always baffles me when regulars in this room tell others that they're being "needlessly argumentative"
 
Why is copying 5MB onto an emulator taking about a minute. :.
 
Needlessly argumentative is what this room is all about
 
@CatPlusPlus Karma for not liking TF2.
 
@jalf No, it's not.
 
3:22 PM
@jalf So I'm a regular? Cool.
 
:D
 
(See what I did there?)
 
Subtle Robot.
 
@rubenvb Well, I can remember seeing your name before, so I guess so
 
@jalf lol, maybe that says more about the state of your brain than someone's "regular" status.
 
3:22 PM
time to set a course for the more homely lands
 
so, speaking of Valve, Halflife 3, eh?
 
Oh, hey, NotSerializableException is back.
 
@jalf Unbelievable, isn't it?
 
Fuck you, Java.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, it's not confirmed yet
 
3:24 PM
I stopped waiting for HL3 a long time ago.
I don't even remember that much from the plot.
 
Yeah, same
 
Time to play it again, and don't forget E1 and E2
 
To be honest, ep1 and especially ep2 kind of detracted, I feel. I loved HL1 and 2
 
true, it was... weird.
 
Ep1 was laughably short.
 
3:25 PM
eps 1 and 2 were sort of ok, I don't regret playing them, but I don't have any kind of urge to play through them again
 
And that last fight in Ep2 is something I'm never playing through again.
It's just so fucking annoying and unfun.
 
Of course I'll play HL3 if and when it comes out, but it's been a long time since I actively looked forward to it
 
In retrospect, I think the episodes suffered from the polish-o-mania that tends to affect Valve sequels
 
What do you mean?
 
3:27 PM
the feeling that the game has been focus-tested to death
 
like Terminator Salvation
 
Well I don't know what was focus in that Strider fight.
 
Look at Portal 1 vs 2. 1 was a brilliant, quirky, outstanding game. 2 was, well, nothing like it. Virtually all the exploration and experimentation was removed, and you were just railroaded through the game, with each puzzle having one and only one solution
 
Portal 1 puzzles had more than one solution?
 
Don't get me wrong, portal2 was still lovely, but it was the story and the humor, not the gameplay, that did it
 
3:28 PM
OTOH, Portal 2 had more funny dialogue and nice co-op.
 
I really enjoyed Portal 2 co-op.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes a number of them did. But more importantly, they felt more organic, less designed. You felt like you were discovering your own solution
 
I honestly don't recall Portal 1 puzzles having significant puzzle solution variety
 
in Portal 2 it felt much more obvious that "this is the intended solution"
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, absolutely, that was hilarious
 
3:29 PM
quaternions are overrated and I have proof
 
@sehe You think too highly of humanity, then.
 
But my point is that the things that felt unique about Portal were kind of worn away. Portal 2 is a much more "mainstream" game
I feel a bit of the same way about L4D1 vs 2, although I have a harder time explaining why in that case
 
@jalf Portal 2 has co-op. And the blue orange and white... paints. QED.
 
@rubenvb What were you trying to demonstrate, exactly?
 
@jalf Yeah, it always seems like Valve makes their games in a lab or something.
 
3:31 PM
TFC vs TF2 too. TF2 has great, silly, stylish graphics, and the classes have been balanced and focus-tested to death to make sure everyone can have fun as individuals, regardless of their team. But in the process, they lost the team game that TFC was
 
It's not really art.
 
Aah, fuck. I have unserialisable fields after all.
 
@CatPlusPlus No f. way. I mean, I can see how some people would refuse to speak on voice chat, but not knowing/understanding that the start of our calendar wasn't the start of the world....
 
Damn boilerplate.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes (I think) Portal 2 is cool contrary to what @jalf believes.
 
3:32 PM
@sehe Some only believe it was when the first person was born. Stop reading things that aren't there.
 
@sehe I can't see how anyone would refuse to speak on voice chat.
 
@rubenvb I loved Portal 2
 
@CatPlusPlus I read that as unfertilizable seeds.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hehe
 
But it lost a lot of what made Portal 1 stand out
 
3:32 PM
@EtiennedeMartel You can't even hear it, for that matter
 
@sehe Yeah.
 
Well, I'm not sure if not being more of the same is a bad thing.
 
@sehe There's a lot of stupid people. Internet exposes them wonderfully.
 
Such a person must have really bad tastes when it comes to multiplayer first person shooters.
 
When playing it, it's very clear to see that Portal 1 was made primarily by outsiders, where the sequel was made completely in-house by Valve as a whole
 
3:33 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Subtle.
 
L4D2 is the same story: They bought up the team who were making L4D, and helped put the finishing touches on the game. And then they moved on to L4D2, a completely in-house production
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's how I rooollll.
 
They did the same with Team Fortress. That was originally a HL mod. Then the bought up the team, and eventually made TF2. It's an interesting pattern, and yes, it has produced a lot of very good games
 
CS:S, personally, is vastly better than the original.
 
but it also often feels like it tends to eliminate a lot of what originally made the games unique (both the good and the bad)
 
3:35 PM
-1
Q: The weirdest bug (or something) in std::vector (or somewhere else). What's going on?

zeroes00I've tried compiling this with Visual Studio 2012 RC and Intel C++ Compiler XE 12.1. I'd appreciate if you tried with some other compiler. See my comments in the code to really appreciate the weirdness of this bug. Does anyone know what's going on, and where should I file a bug report about this?...

 
@jalf well, a sequel is by definition not unique, regardless of how hard you try.
 
So, it's daily dumb question time.
 
@DeadMG That's why they're doing another. :P
 
"I don't read docs, and this is the weirdest bug."
 
Is this weird:
 
3:35 PM
@jalf Actually, TF was a Quake mod. TFC was the HL mod.
 
@rubenvb but a good sequel typically preserves the things that made the first game unique, even if they're no longer technically unique :)
 
@jalf It's the atmosphere.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah true. But the Q2 mod was kind of irrelevant to my point ;) Valve's involvement started at TFC
 
template<typename X=T> on a constructor just so I can use enable_if on an argument?
 
@jalf I don't quite see how Portal 2 didn't keep that what made Portal 1 unique. Both have... portal guns.
 
3:36 PM
L4D had much more of a horror atmosphere
 
@KeithLayne Yes. It's also ok.
 
Is there a better way?
 
Now try doing it with a parameter pack.
@KeithLayne Not that I know of.
 
not besides variadic templates?
 
@rubenvb But they're used differently. P1 felt much more free-form. You were exploring, experimenting, trying to figure out how to use it on fairly simple puzzles. You were railroaded through P2, often literally. So much of the time, there were virtually no portal surfaces available, except for the ones you need to solve the puzzle. Often, you were walking along corridors or fenced-off passages which literally prevented you from going off the "correct" track
 
3:38 PM
Oh hey, I only need 4 votes for another Populist.
 
whereas Portal 1 had quite a few hidden areas
 
@KeithLayne No, I just meant that if you have template <typename... T> class foo; you can't do template<typename... X=T...>, which was something I struggled with just last week.
 
But again, Portal 2 is a great game, I'm not disputing that
 
cough Have you seen my lovely ASCII art.
 
Five, Mwahahha.
 
3:39 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes okay. I was wondering if there was a shorthand without introducing a fake defaulted template param.
 
@CatPlusPlus Admit TF2 is good, and I'll upvote you.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Fine. TF2 is good.
 
I'm evil.
 
No, six.
(Why downvote for evulz when I can upvote the other answer?)
 
You mean, why spend 1 rep when you can spend 0? :P
 
3:40 PM
I could also do both, for extra evil juice.
@CatPlusPlus OMG, you're such a sellout.
 
Only when it gives Internet badges.
 
When I finally got and played Portal, my kids kept wanting me to "shoot the bad guys" especially that one that you would catch glimpses of running around.
 
Yourself.
 
3:45 PM
They hadn't made the "it's not a regular gun, it's a portal gun" connection.
 
Your kids suck.
 
Portal gun is infinitely more cool than a regular gun.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm telling.
 
The only real contender is gravity gun.
 
Oh, another dumb c++ question...
 
3:49 PM
Removing code is fun.
 
Some questions really need that tag.
0
Q: How to convert Cartisian coordinates to Quaternion in 3D

ChanikagI'm currently implemented c++ solution to track motion of multiple object successfully. In that I have tracked points of those objects in a frame sequences such that multiple points in each frame. As a result of that I have x,y,z coordinates of those points of the entire frame sequence. Then I wa...

 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You are juicy.
 
I have some private overloads in the class with the SFINAEd constructors, kinda like what you might put in a detail namespace. Is this okay? They are more natural as members, so I didn't want to make them free.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hardly C++.
 
@KeithLayne Private functions sounds ok. Beware of overloading with public ones, though: overload resolution doesn't care about access.
@kbok Hardly anything at all. It like "how do I convert apples to oranges?"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes okay, that's what I was thinking.
Hey everybody, I'm learning C++!!! Hi-five!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, I don't know what a quaternion is, and the Q is so poorly worded that I'm very unlikely to work out anything from the context.
 
quaternions are what hippies draw with.
 

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