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9:00 AM
@StackedCrooked FooCallHandler ?
 
@ScottW That's not a good name for my class either :)
 
That's a wild banana.
Full of seeds.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, I didn't know this! Thanks for teaching me.
@ScottW Haha!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Doesn't look like a good banana.
 
Morning
 
9:08 AM
no, it's not morning.
 
@StackedCrooked Right, that's why those are not cultivated. Only the "races" that have near non-existent seeds are cultivated.
 
sbi
@Abyx Almost noon, in fact.
 
What are you guys up to?
 
@sbi no, it can't be, it's 17:10
maybe you live on another planet...
 
since when don’t GOTWs supply the answer?
 
9:15 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Is this a good time to use the word 'cultivar'?
 
@KonradRudolph Which one?
@LucDanton Oh, that's it!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes In this case, the one you answered yesterday
 
Answers are usually only posted later.
 
9:17 AM
@LucDanton Are you the lucdanton on the std::optional proposal discussion?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, cultivated bananas are spontaneous hybrids of Musa acuminata and Musa balbisiana. There are parthenocarpic polyploid clones of either of those two without hybridization.
 
Oh, he went wikipedia-ing for gibberish.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes exactly my sentiment
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes.
My optional is so much better.
 
9:21 AM
@LucDanton Eh? Why didn’t you propose that then?
 
Doesn't have the same clout as years of use of Boost.Optional, does it?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, the only new word for me in this was "parthenocarpic". Since English uses so much more Latin words in common speech than German, I used that rather than "seedless". For safety, I added the link.
 
(I'm only discussing that list to bring the proposal on par with Boost.Optional by the way.)
 
@LucDanton I remember you have o.emplace() for default construction, while {} gives empty. Having followed the whole discussion so far, I'm starting to like {} for default construction and = none; for empty.
 
9:24 AM
@StackedCrooked Your comment on GotW claims that non-const reference only makes sense for out-parameters but that’s not correct
it also makes sense when non-const functions are called on the object
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I as well. Well, I'm not sold on none, but I'm pretty sure that if a type has a perfect-forwarding constructors that initializes one member, then this constructor will also be used for default construction and I will also provide a unary T overload to allow for uniform initialization.
 
@sbi lol, parthenocarpic was the only one I could infer: I knew the carpel is a sexual organ of plants, and that parthenogenesis is birth without fertilization.
 
@KonradRudolph Yeah I wanted to write output and input/output (io) objects, but that seemed a little verbose.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, but then you're a native of a Latin-derived language.
 
So (U&&...) (constrained to avoid getting picked up for copy/moves and with things like std::is_constructible<T, U&&...>) and (T). What's going to need investigation is explicit (and I need to review that OnlyExplicitlyConstructible or whatever concept from the proposal).
Oh, and (std::initializer_list<U>) as well.
I still don't know why the proposal provides a constructor taking (std::intializer_list<U>, Args&&...) though.
 
9:28 AM
Wut.
 
@sbi And how is polyploidy relevant here? /klugscheiss
 
That's worthless, no?
(WTF was that word)
 
carpel
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph I thought it's the reason for them not having seeds?
 
isn't that a fish
 
9:29 AM
@LucDanton You could have explicit (U&&) and implicit (U&&...) for more than one argument.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't think that there are things like containers accepting an std::initializer_list<T> and std::uses_allocator or the like.
 
user457812
Someone mentioned fish?
 
I surely did
 
user457812
Where?
 
user457812
I could use one.
 
sbi
9:29 AM
@Cicada I am pretty sure no fish is the sexual organ of plants.
 
Well i'd like to be proven wrong
But I'm pretty sure fish are sexual organs
 
@StackedCrooked you can write regular functor instead of lambda
 
Gynoecium (from Ancient Greek , gyne, meaning woman, and , oikos, meaning house) is most commonly used as a collective term for all carpels in a flower. A carpel is the ovule and seed producing reproductive organ in flowering plants. Carpels are derived from ovule-bearing leaves which evolved to form a closed structure containing the ovules. They did this by folding and fusing at their edges to form a chamber in which the ovules develop. In many flowers, several to many carpels are fused into a structure that resembles a single carpel. The term gynoecium is useful because it refers to the ...
 
@sbi Hmm. Maybe :)
 
@Abyx Yep, but that doesn't solve the main problem.
 
9:31 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Don't you think that having a non-explicit unary converting constructor is valuable provided that it's constrained on std::is_convertible?
 
@LucDanton If there are, won't U&&... pick it up anyway?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes dict.leo.org/forum/…
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm skeptical. Can't overload on explicit so what constraints do you use for the constructors to not overlap? I think this is where that concept might come into play.
 
@sbi I don't understand.
 
template<typename R, typename Args... args, typename Hook>
struct Thunk
{
    R operator()(Args ...args);
};

template<typename Functor, typename Hook>
Thunk<...> hook_before(const Functor & original, Hook hook);
@StackedCrooked ^
 
sbi
9:32 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I thought you were asking about the word @Konrad used.
 
is there a public domain implementation of the non-platform specific Standard Library parts?
 
@LucDanton Sorry, can we continue this later? There's too much going on right now (both virtually and physically) for me to think all the details properly.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Same. I'd need to compile actual code to get going.
 
@sbi No, I was talking about "worseless", which I had written instead of "worthless".
 
sbi
9:34 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Um. Sorry.
 
There's nothing worse than writing 'worseless'. It's worseless.
3
 
@LucDanton It's without worse, so technically worseless is good.
 
@StackedCrooked, you just need to infer result type and argument types from Functor
 
You can't infer argument types.
We had this discussion before.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes since you're such a public domain type of guy, what do you think of the unlicense ?
 
9:36 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes, then there should be multiple overloads of operator()
 
@rubenvb Doesn't work on some places (Germany is one, I think).
@Abyx Or template it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes is it the lack of copyright or the usage of Public Domain?
 
@rubenvb PD. I think it was @Konrad that pointed it out to me.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes and your CC0 license doesn't have that problem?
 
Was me, and in fact the problem is both. In Germany, you simply can’t not have a copyright for stuff you created.
 
9:39 AM
@rubenvb CC0 works around that by including a definition of what it means to put something into public domain (waive all rights, blah blah). And has some "to the extent allowed by law" thing.
 
How to resist the urge to write perfect code?
 
and as a consequence the concept of PD doesn’t exist
 
@KonradRudolph Applies to everything or just software?
 
@Cicada Simple: Don’t.
@Cicada Everything, and predates software
(and doesn’t France have similar legislation? I’m not sure …)
 
No wonder why Germany is awesome
 
9:41 AM
@Cicada just don't write code
 
@rubenvb In fact, the legal text of CC0 doesn't even include the term "public domain".
 
@Cicada Yes, we have zeh best autos
 
In France you can patent technical work if they have an industrial application
Rest no
So software can't be patented
@KonradRudolph I beg to differ
 
@Cicada aren't certain implementations patentable?
 
We’re not talking about patents though ;)
 
9:42 AM
@rubenvb Nothing at all
Copyright is for artistic work I think
 
@Cicada copyright != patent
 
Neither copyrightable
You can't protect your soft in any way beyond obfuscation
Or mines.
 
and who said code isn't an artistic work?
 
In france it is considered as an intellectual work
 
> Article L. 112-2 of the IPC defines the extensive list of works eligible for copyright protection, including: (1) dramatic and musical works, (2) literary works, (3) choreography, (4) musical works, including any lyrics, (5) all aspects of art (paintings, drawings, sculptures and photography), (6) cinematography, (7) fashion and (8) software. // cc @Cicada
 
9:43 AM
So no patent, no copyright
 
@KonradRudolph Yes.
 
sbi
@Cicada Pretty funny, even though I disagree with some of them: uberlin.co.uk/what-i-know-about-germans
 
@Cicada In America, it's considered the work of code monkeys
 
@Cicada I’m pretty sure that’s wrong
 
Pretty sure you can't copyright the soft
The code maybe
 
9:44 AM
@Cicada the robot proved you wrong before anyone thought of digging through legal texts.
 
The soft I doubt
 
Art. L.112-2. Sont considérés notamment comme oeuvres de l'esprit au sens du présent code :
1° Les livres, brochures et autres écrits littéraires, artistiques et scientifiques ;
2° Les conférences, allocutions, sermons, plaidoiries et autres oeuvres de même nature ;
3° Les oeuvres dramatiques ou dramatico-musicales ;
4° Les oeuvres chorégraphiques, les numéros et tours de cirque, les pantomimes, dont la mise en oeuvre est fixée par écrit ou autrement ;
5° Les compositions musicales avec ou sans paroles ;
@Cicada See point 13.
 
Yes
It's not copyright
 
@Cicada Some legal handwaving ensure that some (but not all) aspects of it are equivalent (in some legal sense) to copyright. Copyright law can't work unless every jurisdiction makes sure that they're all compatible with one another.
 
It's what we call droit d'auteur
It's not exactly the same
 
9:45 AM
The part that match up copyrights are the droits d'exploitation IIRC.
 
Is that what we'd call "moral rights" in English?
 
Probably
 
@awoodland Yes.
 
I think the problem lies in assuming politicians have any idea what you're talking about when you talk about programming
 
@sbi Disagree because of regional differences, surely. Since spending some time in the south of Germany I have re-adjusted my perceptions and I think there are actually less differences between certain parts of Germany and foreign countries than between the north and south of Germany.
 
9:46 AM
@sbi Ape I've changed my name and profile pic :)
 
sbi
@Mask Thanks, I really appreciate that.
 
@KonradRudolph Are you sure you don't mean just Bavaria? (Joking aside, I'm genuinely curious.)
 
Once again I am wonderfully right
 
@sbi My Pleasure.
 
Oh I so love myself
 
9:47 AM
@sbi "They love meat. In all its incarnations." I could be German!
 
@LucDanton Bavaria is the big outlier, sure. But the rest of the south is also quite distinct from the rest … and then there’s the big difference between all the Rhine regions where the people are truly fat (!) and the east of Germany which doesn’t have any particular cuisine and hence the people are rather slim
 
@Cicada so if the French can't copyright their code, the GPL doesn't work in France?
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph No east German cuisine? What of Spreewälder Gurken? :D
 
I distinctly remember the GPL being challenged in a French court, and withstanding
 
@rubenvb Technically, no. It's up to the users to respect it
 
9:49 AM
@sbi One food does not a cuisine make
 
@KonradRudolph but on what grounds was it challenged?
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Oh, I really did not know that! (Hence the smiley, of course.)
 
@rubenvb I don’t remember, trying to find it now – but almost surely it was challenged because some d-bag company violated it in their products
 
@ScottW No. Our new president comes from there
 
@sbi Sarcasm? I can tell, it’s dripping.
 
sbi
9:51 AM
> Germans can drink. And not just write themselves off, vomit in the bath tub at 2am, wedge in a kebab and back it up the following night, a la American/English/Australian binge drinkers … I mean drink. While the rest of the world is vomiting in the bath tub, the Germans are calmly ingesting their 57th shot and washing it down with a beer, their cheeks a little rosy, their eyes a little glazed, but their livers working as smoothly as a German made automobile.
 
sbi
I LOL'ed about that.^
 
@KonradRudolph Yep I was checking that too
I must be confusing with something else
Disassembly maybe
 
Reverse engineering is considered fair use most everywhere.
 
@Cicada Oh yes, that’s different. Same in Germany, actually. A product you bought, you own. Do with it whatever you like. Disassemble, modify, use as toilet paper …
 
9:52 AM
@ScottW The french countryside in general is beautiful (like almost any countryside maybe?)
Use java as toilet paper
2/10 would not recommend
 
@RMartinhoFernandes “Not so fast” says Uncle Sam and reaches for the vaseline
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Fair use of what? How does source code come into play?
 
I also wonder how enforceable an EULA is.
 
Pyrénées are beautiful too
Also Corse
 
@KonradRudolph If you acquired it legally, are not going against any established agreements, and are doing it for things like interoperation and shit, even the US are ok with it.
 
9:55 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes No, in the USA only the number of laywers counts. See for example Sony vs. poor little underage shit
 
^ this
 
In the USA corporations can fuck you for anything at all. Not a country I ever want to live in.
 
@KonradRudolph Accolade?
 
I want to work for the CLR team!
 
Sony lost on the higher courts.
 
9:56 AM
Cicada Lippert. Yes.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That was Sega
 
And long time ago
Wasn't it?
 
@KonradRudolph Connectix?
 
Anyway, time for lunch
 
Same thing happened. Big guy wins first, loses on higher courts.
 
9:57 AM
Konrad si je ne m'abuse tu parles français, non?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Don’t know that, too lazy to look it up. I was talking about the PS3 jailbreak stuff, only a few years old
 
Warning: obfuscation through speaking a foreign language does not work on the internet, because a) Google translate, b) the presence of Belgians who usually speak more languages than you average Internet user, c) Google translate.
 
@KonradRudolph FWIW, the goals matter a lot.
 
Whoa, the Sony Wikipedia page is completely whitewashed
 
@rubenvb Speak Sindarin.
@KonradRudolph What does that mean?
 
9:59 AM
Me, average intarnuts user speaks 3 languages, covering nearly 1.3 billion people
 

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