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Xeo
12:46 AM
darn it. it just took me an hour to play through a dijkstra on a 3x4 field on the whiteboard, just because I wanted to test if a bordercase that came to mind would really appear...
 
1:06 AM
How can I figure out weather VS compiles something for 32 or 64bit?
 
Xeo
vs always compiles 32bit, unless you specify it in the project properties, under configuration manager -> active platform -> new -> select x64 from the dropdown menu
both for debug and release mode
i mean project properties -> general -> config manager
 
Just figured that out..
Tried to compile the examples here, but I have no success with VS2010
1>Sim\Vorton\vortonSim.cpp(601): error C2511: 'void VortonSim::ComputeVelocityGridSlice(unsigned int,unsigned int)' : overloaded member function not found in 'VortonSim'
1> c:\develop\mjgintelfluiddemo\sim\vorton\vortonSim.h(34) : see declaration of 'VortonSim'
1>Sim\Vorton\vortonSim.cpp(953): error C2511: 'void VortonSim::AdvectTracersSlice(const float &,const unsigned int &,unsigned int,unsigned int)' : overloaded member function not found in 'VortonSim'
1> c:\develop\mjgintelfluiddemo\sim\vorton\vortonSim.h(34) : see declaration of 'VortonSim'
 
i hate the harris RF5710A HF/LF modem....
 
a cool gadget, but you have to agree the threat it protects against wasn't thought through... schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/02/biometric_walle_1.html
 
1:21 AM
humm interesting the header declaration and the function def did not match exactly: In the declaration it was size_t something and in the def it was unsigned int something..
 
and size_t isn't unsigned int on your system; make sense
 
so a signed size heh
 
size_t must be unsigned, but it's probably just ulong or ullong instead of uint
 
sbi
1:35 AM
Anyway, as I said before: The newbie hints have been automagically unpinned again. Can one of those room owners who hadn't previously pinned chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=124922#124922, but considers the newbie hints worthwhile, please pin them? (You know you have already done so when, after clicking on the down arrow left of the message, you see "unpin this message", instead of "pin this message".)
 
Ouuh that fluid sym is really nice to play with.. it's even in 3d
 
@sbi done
 
sbi
@FredNurk You're a star!
Oh, and you even unpinned my pledge message! Wow. What a thoughtful fellow! I'd like to have you as a cow-worker. :)
 
nah, I'm an asshole at heart; "does not play well with others"
you will, probably really soon, run out of people to re-pin it, though
 
1:52 AM
yep... I definately hate the Harris RF5710A HF/LF modem... keeping me here at work.....
just found my 10th undocumented command that I have to deal with for it...
 
sbi
@FredNurk Yep, I know that this isn't a long-term solution. We'd need to recruit two new regulars worthy to be made room owner per month. But you came up with the idea of (ab)using a bookmark for this, and I keep hoping that, one day, someone will come up with another nice idea.
But if this fails, we're not lost, since we can always post a new newbie message. It would be shame, though, to lose two doesn't stars. They somehow give this more weight. :)
 
why not just have it so that anyone who has enough reputation to do moderation can choose to have a post pinned, until removed?
 
that would play havoc with the room ownership semantics, but I suppose it would be possible
however, there are only so many users that frequent here, much less have enough rep to do moderation (at whatever threshold you intend, perhaps 10k?), so it just delays the problem of circumventing the two-week limit on pinned posts
 
sbi
2:09 AM
Oops. That was meant to be "two dozen", not two "two doesn't". I guess I should go to bed now. It's passed 3am here.
G'night!
 
night
still stuck at work here.. and starting to look like I'm going to be here all weekend again... :(
 
2:28 AM
because several people had already seen the question, I'd like to think I'm missing something here, but I don't see what: stackoverflow.com/questions/5031041/…
don't suppose anyone does see it?
 
not that familiar with SQL... sorry... I have been lucky enough to avoid SQL for the most part by being a bit head.
although right about now, figuring out SQL is starting to look more appealing than trying to understand the interface to this HF modem I'm working with....
although I'm supprised to see that this one is collecting answers without votes... stackoverflow.com/questions/5048112/…
 
2:44 AM
you can answer even if the question isn't very clear or otherwise well-asked (or attempt an answer, especially when the question is vague)
but I also run out of votes very quickly, as I bookmark items to vote on the next day :)
 
I guess I need to start being less stingy about voing on things... I kinda hold them until I see something I really like.. but often only use 1 or 2 votes a day... :(
 
I do read a lot of SO, but I'm probably less stingy
 
I just read it while waiting on compiles...
they kinda frown on sword fighting in the hallways here....
2
 
I suspect it's "learning entertainment" for many, and I'd count myself among them
beats spending a couple hours watching TV every night – more so when you figure 1/3rd is commercials
 
don't watch tv, instead I just waste countless hours on EQ2...
 
2:58 AM
yeah, no MMORPGs for me, except SO :)
I suppose I do spent 15-20 hours per week at various bars
 
 
4 hours later…
6:57 AM
Anyone here read the book "Elements of Programming"?
 
why do I continually get sucked into pointless "discussions" on SO?
 
@FredNurk because you're a sucker for "discussions"?
actually we all are
nothing new
 
it's aggravating; makes me want to just leave
maybe a new rule: never comment on anyone else's answer
this latest is a classic example: I point out modifying string literals is UB and get accused of being too "language-lawyerly", seemingly because I missed a comment from the OP on the lowest-voted answer
 
7:30 AM
@FredNurk oh bad
 
Discussions on SO? In my experience they are brief..
Because you have to use the comment section for discussing things, and the focus is on asnwers..?
 
user379888
8:05 AM
I am making a VC++ app and I am making a label.I need to make it multicolor.Can anyone help me out how?
 
Xeo
8:53 AM
hm.. how can I generate all possible ways from a given start to a given goal node?
 
@Xeo you don't. you use dijkstra's or something
 
Xeo
yeah, but the problem is, that I want to take into account train switching. alas, I want to change trains only if absolutely necessary
 
9:19 AM
@Xeo that's intricate problem. how do you weight train switches against travel time?
 
Xeo
to make it easier for us, we say that every train switch takes a constant 7 minutes
 
@Xeo perhaps you can model train switches as additional travel time (internally)
 
Xeo
but i think i found a nice solution
the problem was, how to find out with which line to start from the start station
now i just go through all and for every new path I get to the goal station, I check if the cost is smaller than the one from the previous path
should give me what I want
 
10:08 AM
are there any XCode or Visual studio tools that can canonicalize include paths? I have a huge project with 10's of 1000's of files, and circular dependencies up the whahoozie if a teeny slip is made.
i need to sort this out if I am to maintain it
rather than contribute to this madness
 
@ChrisBecke rather make sure that include guards are good (suitably unique). add #pragma once for good measure.
 
#pragma once is a bit useless sadly, as it results in header files that are horribley order dependent
 
@ChrisBecke not as far as i know. it cannot be relied on for symlinks. but it helps
@ChrisBecke you can try to add a dummy cpp file for each header file, including that file, to make sure that each header is self-contained
 
the problem is, generally, you can get a situation where: a.h includes b.h, b.h gets a dependency on something in c.h, c.h could have used a forward declare to something in a.h, but because the functions were implemented inline, they actually included a.h
multiply that over 10,000 header files and the whole roof can come tumbling down
@AlfPSteinbach that was definately considered.
templates, and the practice of inline implementations do worsen the problem as you get into situations where forward declares could have been used, but the inline references force the other type to be fully defined.
header files are my one bug bear
That in my opinion, is possibly the most important thing not mentioned in any "Effective c++" book ive ever read
best practices re project layout
how do you, practically, in the real world, lay out a project?
 
10:32 AM
@ChrisBecke you start by considering whether you can turn the single project into a more long lasting client relationship, a project "program".
:-)
 
10:43 AM
so whats your approach? all source per 'target' in one folder?
 
@ChrisBecke how does include order affect pragma once, or vice versa?
@AlfPSteinbach @ChrisBecke: FWIW, I always do exactly that, even if the "implementation file" has nothing except an #include and "int main() {}" (well, I use int main because I include these files as "tests" to be run, and use this template to later insert real tests)
 
I normally sort my includes so that they are tiered
like tier1, tier2, tier3, tier4 includes
where a tier4 header can't include a tier3 header and suchlike
 
good morning
 
#pragma doesn't effect ordering. It does mean that if you get a circular dependency, where a.h #includes b.h and b.h #includes a.h (via some chain of intermediate headers). Then cpp files will get different results depending on whether they include (a file that includes) a.h or b.h first
 
#pragma once is an include guard, but easier
nothing more or less
 
10:54 AM
With include guards you can go:
 
that would be an ordering problem, but I can't see the problem you describe
 
#include <something that really needs to be first>
#ifndef THISHEADER
#define THISHEADER
#include "other optional things"
declare and define stuff
#endif
 
at least not if the circular dependency is refactored (with forward declarations) correctly
eww, don't do that
and there's absolutely no reason not to put that inside the guard
 
yes there is
 
just put it first, because it "really needs to be first", but still inside the guard
 
10:56 AM
nope
 
then its order dependent.
 
@ChrisBecke no, don't do that
 
if you have correct include guard names, then that required header will always be included: the include guard name won't be defined for the first include
 
@ChrisBecke for example, define wrapper for <windows.h>, and include the self-contained wrapper
 
10:57 AM
and if you have incorrect include guard names that you've duplicated elsewhere: you're just screwed
 
@Thomas - this has nothing to do with incorrect include guard names.
 
then could you construct a complete test case, specifying the contents of two headers and as many implementation files as you need to show the problem?
 
@ChrisBecke it seems it has to do with kludges applied to circular dependency problems. just say No to such kludges. remove the circular dependencies.
 
I'm intrigued and absolutely cannot see the problem you do
umm, pasting here probably won't work well, do you know codepad.org for pasting?
 
// c.h
#pragma once
#include "a.h"
#include "b.h"
enum Foo {...};

#a.h
#pragma once
#include "c.h" // to get Foo
struct a {
   Foo f;
};

#b.h
#pragma once
#include "c.h"
struct b : a {
};
is that broken?
 
11:02 AM
doesn't look so to me
adding a circular dependency, so b.h requires something from c.h (which isn't in a.h) would break it, but if you fix the circular dependency with a forward declaration without changing anything else, it wouldn't be broken anymore
oh, the circular dependency is already there, but in a.h instead of where I was looking
again, fix that without changing #pragma once, and include guards vs #pragma once shouldn't make any difference here
 
hmm, I am having trouble figuring out how this fails :P
but it can. perhaps its a 4 way conflict.
 
can you send private messages here? I'd be very interested if you could show me :)
 
and, im not happy with putting #includes before the guard.
as I prefer just using #pragma once
 
that's a different debate and something people make a bunch of worry over for no reason
if you need to support multiple names for the same file (the symlinks alf mentioned), or think your users might ever need that, then use include guards
otherwise it's completely personal preference according to what your tools (including extraneous ones like doc generators, lints, etc.) support
int f(int n) {
    if (n == 0)
        #pragma once
    return n * 2;
}
:P
 
11:29 AM
We have a closed question in the C++ FAQ:
21
Q: Which C# practices should be avoided in C++?

Donny V.I'm currently teaching myself C++. I'm very proficient at C#, and was wondering which common practices in C# can lead to difficulties in C++, and what a C++ programmer should do instead.

I cannot edit away the c++-faq tag because I am immediately forwarded to programmers.se
Is there any way we can get rid of the "body"? :)
 
migrated posts are automatically locked, you'll have to flag it for moderator attention
to get back to the source page, just add ?noredirect=1 to the url, or click the link back from the destination page: stackoverflow.com/questions/5008159/…
 
Thanks, flagged it.
 
11:47 AM
still, im interested, if you have common functionality.... how are the sources arranged?
ProjectRoot/Common
ProjectRoot/SpecificThing
vs
ProjectRoot/Common/SpecificThing
or just
ProjectRoot/Source/*.cpp & h
 
repo-root/include/projectname/ contains all of that project's headers
 
Or, to give a concrete example... A framework has a Window class, that derives from a CocoaWindow (on OSX) or a Win32Window (on Windows) or an XWindow (on Ubuntu or OSX)
 
the include directory allows you to include third party libraries within the same repo, and you specify repo-root/include as an include directory to the compiler
 
which all, in turn derive from a WindowBase
where do you put the CPPs and headers for each of these classes?
@FredNurk the include directory is nice, but its less obvious what do do when some of the classes in the project are not "public"
plus it means you can't use any of the project wizards, which always co-create the cpp and header in the same location.
(for those of us that try to be lazy by using IDEs)
 
I would avoid different platform-specific base classes whenever remotely feasible; use conditional compilation in headers where required, use conditional compilation or completely separate files for implementation files
 
11:52 AM
I sometimes need both.
 
I think I've voiced my opinions on IDEs here before: they tie you into specific mindsets that too frequently aren't what you want
 
I tried making "Window" simply be the appropriate Window kind using conditionals
but
On OSX it was an advantage to have both XWindow and CocoaWindow simultaneously available
Especially when I got past the window, to the renderer...
 
@ChrisBecke I follow Boost's pattern: use "detail" for non-public names (even when the names aren't actually "private" in the sense enforced by the compiler)
 
where each of the windows can be rendered using a QuartzRenderer (OSX), OpenGLRenderer (OSX, Windows, Ubuntu), XRenderer (OSX/Ubuntu), GDIRenderer (Windows) or DirectXRenderer (windows)
 
e.g. SomeClassDetail, namespace detail (which is nested), etc.
 
11:55 AM
I started doing that on my own
had a private "impl" namespace inside all my namespaces
was pleased to see the same idea in boost
 
if I've not properly encapsulated such implementation details (with a special "detail" name) in my public interface, that's my fault; but if someone uses implementation details which I have encapsulated, they take on the maintenance burden
 
so, what I have at the moment is:
namespace acme {
  struct WindowBase {
  };
  namespace impl {
      struct CocoaWindow : WindowBase {
      };
  #ifdef USE_COCOAWINDOW
      typedef struct CocoaWindow Window;
  #endif
  }
  struct Window : impl::Window {
  };
}
 
make impl::Window a non-public base, promote any members of it that you want to be public in Window with a using declaration
 
not all in 1 header file of course.
ive used structs, and public inheritance just to make the overall structure clear
most of cocoawindow is, in practice, private implementation
 
@ChrisBecke I also used "impl" before I really got into boost; I'd continue using it except boost is more popular than anything I've written and there's value in following that established convention :)
 
12:02 PM
// Window.h
#pragma once
#include "WindowBase.h"
#include "OSX/CocoaWindow.h"
#include "Win32/Win32Window.h"
#include "X/XWindow.h"

namespace acme {
  struct Window : impl::Window {
};
is what Window.h looks like, at the moment.
im not happy with it
Ive started using 'detail' for private stuff too
q1: would you change that?
q2: and how would that influence what you think OSX/CocoaWindow.cpp or .h should #include and where?
 
I'd make the above mentioned accessibility change, then replace the three "platform/header" includes with #include "impl/windowbase.h" (which I think is what you want that first include to be?)
oh, and I'd use include guards, but that's orthogonal :)
 
I'm not opposed to entirely separate GUI code per platform, just factor out the base project logic into platform-agnostic code whenever feasible
 
and impl\WindowBase would then contain what? The recursive #includes of impl\win32\win32window.h" ?
 
sure, whatever it needs. obviously skip that win32 include if you don't need it as determined by platform-config macros
instead of platform/name.h, I'm more partial to name-platform.h, but that's fairly trivial too
 
12:09 PM
// impl/OSX/CocoaWindow.cpp
// #include "CocoaWindow.h" // this won't work
#include "../../Window.h"
is where it starts to get guly
 
I'd rather group all the "name"s together than group disparate files that only have the platform in common
 
unless "CocoaWindow.h" starts with a #include "../../Window.h" - but then things start to get a bit too circular
 
#include <projectname/impl/OSX/CocoaWindow.h> or #include PROJECT_INCLUDE "impl/OSX/CocoaWindow.h" from repo-root/source/CocoaWindow.cpp, where PROJECT_INCLUDE is a macro for that repo-root/include/projectname directory
I do slightly prefer the latter, but that's more of an ivory tower ideology than practical reason
(obviously you can move ..source/CocoaWindow.cpp to ..source/impl/OSX/CocoaWindow.cpp if you want implementation directory structure to match header directory structure, which is handy)
 
I do like to be able to find things easilly :P
 
oh, you did have source/impl/OSX/.. already, missed that
the key part is you have a handle to the project root either through the macro or through specifying repo-root/include/ as an include directory, regardless of where in the tree the current implementation file lies
 
12:19 PM
I have been in the habit - recently - of adding $(ProjectRoot) to my projects include search paths, so that the headers and cpps can live side by side
 
if a header is completely separate from all public interface (e.g. not even involved in a private base class or private data member), then move it out of the include/ directory and into source/, and use relative paths from implementation files
@ChrisBecke relative paths do work, for intra-project includes in "public" headers in that include/ directory, that's all I use
which allows you to extract and tarball the include/ directory to use elsewhere as a third-party library, independent of specified include directories for that other project
it also allows you to use symlinks to manage (sub-)projects used as third-party libraries
by just adding a symlink to the given project's repo-root/include
or, with DVCS, you put a subrepo in repo-root/subrepos and symlink repo-root/include/A to ../../subrepos/A/include/A
the latter is particularly handy to independently control which revision/release of the other project you're using at each revision of the "current" project
 
svn has a similar concept with externals
 
I never really got into this with svn; I'd already found hg by the time I needed it, but that does sound familiar
meh, 7:30 already; I should be gone, but I'm procrastinating
 
 
4 hours later…
4:55 PM
hi
is anyone home? :P
 
Xeo
5:34 PM
o/
 
 
2 hours later…
7:10 PM
hi everyone. I'm a C guy but I'm trying to get my hands dirty with classes. The program I'm working is quite a mess.. It would be great if a class could derive from (be child of? inherit from?) 2 other classes! But I guess it can't.. Am I right? You know, this would make things a bit simpler..
@Anne: do you know something about this? :)
 
Xeo
7:25 PM
class YourDerived : public OneBase, public OtherBase {...};
@BlackBear
 
@Xeo: thanks! :)
 
Xeo
The 'ding' from this chat sounds like my microwave oven when the food is ready...
2
 
yeah.. I find it quite depressing, isn't it? :) my pc that cooks food.. lol
 
Xeo
No, quite the other way around. It makes me hungry D:
 
i've just eaten my dinner.. :) what's the time in your place? ; p
 
Xeo
7:41 PM
8:40pm, but haven't eaten yet
 
I usually eat much earlier...
 
8:29 PM
making me hungry
I want to go eat some fast food, but I can't
 
lol why not? are you at work?
 
sick
 
wow.. i'm sure it's depressing a lot working on Saturday night!
 
8:43 PM
I'm not working
I'm sick
 
oh sorry.. my bad english.. =) me too, I have a cold.. ; c
 
Xeo
for DeadMG it's a bit more problematic
 
why..?
 
Xeo
He's kinda stuck to eating the same kind of food everyday IIRC.
 
oh.. i see..
 
9:36 PM
yes
I just went out and ate a burger anyway
man, I'm gonna regret that
 
sbi
@DeadMG There's nothing for teaching you better eating habits like your stomach acting up each time you stray from The One True Path(TM).
 
ugh
I don't think that The One True Path(TM) is normally defined quite this narrowly
 
sbi
Really, I'm earnest. Either you feel fine and then learned a bit more about your digestive system, or you feel worse and learned to stick to what you were told would help.
And from what I understood you having to stick to the same restricted set of food is just while your digestive system needs a rest, right?
 
@sbi: The trouble is that it's both
or rather, both and neither
like last night, I was up for hours as a result of drinking water before bed
that's definitely not on the list of what's The One True Path™
and secondly, my digestive system has had a rest, a large one
and several drugs to assist it
starting to think that the damn thing will never be fixed
 
sbi
@DeadMG The impatiens of the young. Just wait a few years....
 
9:45 PM
ugh
I'd rather enjoy youth, while I still have it
 
Guys, it's time for me to go to bed! Good night everyone :)
 
night
really, I'm starting to think that The One True Path™ is defined as, don't have anything in there at nighttime
 
Xeo
Wouldn't that be quite... disastrous for us?
 
well, you'd be seeing a lot of me
 
Xeo
a true coder could never walk down The One True Path(TM) like that
 
9:52 PM
lot less, even
dude, it's ™, not (TM)
l2 Unicode
 
Xeo
too lazy
:P
same lazyness that binds me to c-style casts
 
float(bob) ?
 
sbi
@DeadMG You're just to young to remember Usenet. When I was young we had nothing but ASCII...
 
@sbi: Thank God for that
I had a look at getting involved in Boost, and they use some 18th century mailing list thing
I mean, they have heard of a free forum, right?
 
Xeo
@ChrisBecke No, (float)bob ;)
@DeadMG Seems Boost is only for old-schooler
 
10:04 PM
@xeo if youre gonna do c style casts, go big I say :P
 
Xeo
argh... with which operator does a std::map decide, if a given value is already inside the map?
 
.find()
if (mymap.find() != mymap.end())
 
Xeo
nono, i mean when using operator[]
 
V& map<K, V>::operator[](const K& key) {
    if (find(key) == end())
        insert(value_type(key, value());
    return find(key)->second;
}
 
Xeo
okay, and on which operator does it rely? operator< or operator== ?
 
10:11 PM
oh, that
it's typically a red-black binary search tree
so operator<
there's no way it could fulfill it's complexity requirements with operator==
 
Xeo
hm. thank you
 
oh
I think that it may have to use both
but I'm not too sure
at least, I never had problems with operator== making my classes a key in a map
 
Xeo
that's what i kinda need to know. my key is a struct{string, string} with operator< implemented. uses string::operator< for the first string and operator!= for the second string, because lexicographical comparision wouldn't work ("S1","S2","S3")
oh wait
it would work >_>
screw my brain for thinking it just compares length...
 
lol
 
Xeo
I'm hungry, and it seems I can't think straight when I'm hungry...
Ok, that doesn't work either...
 
10:22 PM
just use a std::pair
it has these operators pre-defined if the contained type supports them, iirc
 
Xeo
good idea
now I just need to remember what first represents and what second represents..
great. now i got a bunch of template errors with the error lines only being in the stl headers..
facepalm ...
 
10:38 PM
@DeadMG: boiled salmon perhaps?
 
ugh, can't eat that stuff even normally
 
huh, no fish?
agreed, i don't ever eat fish at restaurants or cafes in oslo, because they somehow manage to destroy every little trace of "foodness", i mean, they destroy it
one important thing, it should not actually boil. you heat the water to boiling and then you take it off and add the fish.
or you can like barbeque, you just wrap it in aluminum foil (the same as one uses for hats) together with whatever, like onions and carrots and so on
this is a bit special, it's like sort of a "drink" with pieces of smoked salmon:
 
Xeo
@AlfPSteinbach I SEE SHRIMPS IN THE GLASS AT THE BACK!
Want!
 
no, I just think fish are disgusting
 
10:53 PM
well, i never eat the soft glassy tissue in fish tongues. my late father did and thought it was delicious (and reportedly so do many other folks). i just find it disgusting.
i think the person who first ate an oyster must have been very brave. i've yet to do that. ;-)
for the record, let it be known that i've not eaten fish tongues in ten years (at least), it's not what i usually want to have for dinner
 
@AlfPSteinbach I have never heard of eating fish tongues... they must be the smallest food ever! like a whale eating krill
oysters are tasty though, but not all they are cracked up to be.
 
11:24 PM
@DeadMG you can access the Boost mailling list(s) via NNTP at GMane, news.gmane.org. It is, of course, a Norwegian service.
 
what on earth is NNTP?
 
@DeadMG New Network Transfer Protocol, IIRC. Same as Usenet. ;-) You can use any Usenet client, such as Thunderbird or Opera, or a dedicated one such as Forte Agent. One Boost newsgroup is e.g. gmane.comp.lib.boost.develop
 
oh
so technology 20 years behind current then
 
Xeo
strange that Boost is used to develop top notch software here and now...
 
@DeadMG rather, the technology of SO and other sites for the uneducated public, is about as old as NNTP.
 
11:36 PM
pretty sure that SO is a Web 2.0 site
 
@DeadMG yes, that's cosmetics, or "eye candy" as programmers call it
 
I prefer "Usability"
 
@DeadMG of course, i'm a bit biased. but i prefer "functionality". you can always add "usability" on top. SO and similar sites have added "usability" on top of lack of functionality.
 
this site is way more useful than Boost's mailing lists
 
@DeadMG you come from a position where 2 minutes ago you did not even have an inkling of how to access the mailing list properly. and you still haven't tried. try it first.
 
11:40 PM
I tried for several hours previously
 
@DeadMG no, you did not
 
uh
I believe that I know what I did and did not do
 
@DeadMG that's a problem with educating people. they always think that they know. even when it's demonstrated that they don't.
 
ok
so I have all these memories of trying to use the mailing lists, and what, you're trying to tell me that they didn't really happen?
 
@DeadMG i'm telling you that they are indeed memories of trying to use the mailing lists. but, due to lack of knowledge, not succeeding. so, you haven't done that yet.
do you have Thunderbird?
 
11:44 PM
indeed, I said that I tried to use the mailing lists
and no, of course I don't
I have a browser, it browses
 
do you have Opera?
 
why would I have any other software for internet-based interaction?
 
@DeadMG jeez, you're having me on, aren't you?
 
no?
 
11:47 PM
already tried, remember?
 
@DeadMG if you're really tool-challenged you can browse to [news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel]. try that.
 
ok
so where's the new post button?
 
on the right there's an "Action" drop down list. Item "post" appears to create a new post.
note: i have not used that interface before
i don't use browser to access Usenet, except for accessing archive at Google
 

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