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12:04 AM
@wilx The "C" locale.
 
@sehe "because it tells me the convergens is logarithmic" how is this?
 
Intuition.
Everything that retains the same proportions when scaled is principally logarithmic (it's simple multiplication, really)
@CaptainGiraffe (and that ought to have been convergence of course)
@hwlau Agree. Compromise: a step curve
 
When I was a young boy there was about a 2500 ns waiting time for a look into ram memory. What is that time now? 50ns?
 
12:33 AM
@CaptainGiraffe More like 100-200 (which is about what RAM supported way back when--just back then, most processors were a lot slower). RAM has much higher bandwidth now than it used to, but latency hasn't gotten better nearly as quickly.
 
user1804599
Nice steel cutting
 
user1804599
Too bad it's fake
 
@JerryCoffin Close enough. Though the 100-200 number would be cycles. So more like 50 - 100ns unless you're talking cross-NUMA.
 
@BogdanMarginean took me almost 20s to figure it out
@CaptainGiraffe isn't 2500ns more like 2.5µs
 
@BogdanMarginean idgi
 
1:03 AM
@AldwinCheung tab stops for fibonacci-indexed columns, spaces for the rest
@Borgleader PulseAudio would be the much praised audio subsystem for almost all linux desktop environments
 
Oh, implying it's crap and doesn't work?
 
Meaning, they hire bad programmers because they can't speak - there's no sound
 
I see.
 
FTR I like pulseaudio. It's not nearly as bad as they make it out to be it used to be
 
user1804599
1:15 AM
I don't use audio on my Linux workstation environment.
 
user1804599
I use audio on the Windows host.
 
user1804599
No hardware, no drivers.
 
2:58 AM
So I'm looking up Zen motherboards atm. And apparently, the mobo that I want simply doesn't exist. I want an mATX board that can run both a video card PCIex16 and two PCIe x8 SAS controllers.
Not only do they not exist in mATX form factor, they don't exist in any desktop motherboard except for Intel's HEDT boards.
fuck
 
-@Mysticial and my concern how reliable motherboard will be..
 
@ProblemSlover My experience with motherboard reliability has been mostly flawless for desktops and terrible for servers.
My bad experience with server motherboard was one board in particular. It was designed for 95W Xeon chips. But was then "re-certified" for the 150W Xeons that I put into it. "re-certified" my ass. I burned it out and RMA'ed it 3 times before I said enough was enough and dropped $500 for a different model from a different company.
I've never had problems with desktop mobos probably because I always get the higher-end overclockable ones which are completely overdesigned anyway. And I usually only run a moderate overclock rather than liquid nitrogen - which those boards are meant to handle.
 
@Mysticial damn man.. I hate doing sys admin stuff,. enough to look at the struggle of Linus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbCmkFVCs5I
He hosts a huge server in his own house.. don't even follow the fire safety standards
 
Having your house burn down is the least of your worries when your computer isn't working.
4
 
rent space in datacenter.,. after all.. damn.. he makes a lot.. and can't afford to do that
 
3:12 AM
> So today I spent 10 minutes watching two dudes clean a room
 
but what a rewarding room clean it is
it's a nest
a nest of horror
 
Hell I would never do that.. he does media production stuff and sys admin.. oh god
 
I that probably happened because he does that stuff
 
@jaggedSpire initially it was just review of pc companents
 
3:36 AM
10
Q: The Quality of C++ Questions

editionThere seem to be a number of users asking C++ questions without conducting proper research, as is apparent in the following question: why is using std::string still needed after #include <string>? I understand that the users asking question about C++ cannot be expected to understand the language...

I consider this question a compliment for the C++ tag The question quality problem has been around for years in pretty much all tags and only now is there finally a complaint about the C++ tag itself. — Mysticial 9 secs ago
 
4:22 AM
This author's work always depresses me
he is a good author though, because only good authors are capable of manipulating readers' mood
with that said I would rather not reading any more of his work, because I hate being depressed
 
4:57 AM
But so dead inside...
 
5:28 AM
shark: (status) stalking my prey
 
5:44 AM
just punch it
real hard
on the nose
sharks are members of the set of animals that do not enjoy getting punched hard in the nose and which will attempt to avoid it happening
 
wtf
and what have you done to the don't tread on me flag
 
So I hit a brick wall shopping for Zen mobos. All the ones I want even after giving up on the PCIe requirement are either not listed, or are not shipping on launch date.
fuck
 
5:50 AM
Is that because the PCIe lanes offered by Zen is shit?
 
I wanted a mATX Zen board that could run a PCIe x16 video card, and two PCIe x8 SAS controllers.
3 hours ago, by Mysticial
Not only do they not exist in mATX form factor, they don't exist in any desktop motherboard except for Intel's HEDT boards.
I need 32 PCIe lanes. The only mobos that have that are Intel's HEDT or servers.
But even after giving up on that requirement, all the mATX boards are either unlisted or not shipping on Zen's launch day.
 
32 lanes isn't a high requirement :-)
 
Ironically, the box I'm typing on right now has 40 PCIe lanes. But it's not the box that I intend to run two SAS controllers in. So I'm only using 16 of the 40 lanes.
 
Didn't even know they had PCIe with 32 lanes.
Thought 16 was the most.
 
@StackedCrooked The slot maxes out at 16 lanes. But the processor/chipset has more than that so they can support multiple slots.
My other Haswell box is running both SAS controllers at PCIe x8 each. But it's using the integrated graphics. So it doesn't go over the PCIe lane limit.
 
5:55 AM
Try a HighPoint Rocket 750 card (highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series_R750-Overview.htm)
 
That's gonna bandwidth limited by the PCIe.
It's also really expensive.
 
Use Wifi
Escape from the 2D lanes.
 
I thought about using the Zen box as my main workstation and moving the HD towers + SAS cards into my current box which does have the necessary PCIe lanes to handle it. But the problem is that I can't run benchmarks or do any performance tuning on my primary workstation since it's too noisy. So that basically defeats the purpose of the Zen box.
My current primary workstation is an 8-core Haswell. But I can do Haswell programming since I have an older (quad-core) Haswell sitting in the corner that currently owns the HD towers + SAS cards.
 
Have you considered writing AMD an email and asking for free hardware? They were willing to dump a bunch of GPUs at me to convert our lab's software to OCL but I declined.
 
lol
@Mikhail That card will bottleneck on the PCIe somewhere between 10 - 20 HDs. If it was PCIe 3.0 x16, then it could handle the full load. But at these sizes, I question the ability of the controller itself to not be the bottleneck.
I went through quite a bit of trouble to find my current SAS cards which do not bottleneck on the aggregate bandwidth of all the drives.
Many of the cheap ones from never-before-heard-of companies may have multiple ports, but the total bandwidth is just a single SATA 2/3 because they modulate on the one port instead of having a proper chip.
And there's no easy way to determine if that's the case for a typical card that shows up on some site.
 
6:12 AM
Yeah, I've had similar experience so I'm only trusting hardware that I know people have already tested. The Rocket 750 is the card driving Storinator systems.
The system I'm building, hopefully next week, is going to use this case and three Sunrich cards. backuppods.com/collections/backblaze-storage-pod-6-0/products/…
 
If someone wants to set a Pi record using a single socket box. Some of the Intel X99 boards support the 5 x PCIe x8 configuration. You can shove 5 of these big cards in them. That'll get you over a hundred hard drives.
The biggest SATA/SAS cards I find still max out at PCIe 2.0 x8. That's 4 GB/s for each slot. With 5 of them, that's 20 GB/s assuming no other bottlenecks.
 
Or Super Micro boards, the newer Super Micro boards have built-in 10G
 
20 GB/s is almost half the memory bandwidth of a Haswell/Broadwell-E socket.
Given that the program does one memory pass to do the interleaving, I don't think it's possible to get more than 20 GB/s of disk bandwidth since you'll be bottlenecked by - eh... DDR4.
@Mikhail Some of the Zen desktop boards have built-in 5G. I'm tempted.
 
10G?
 
But it's useless unless I have another end. Which I won't until at least Skylake Purley.
@Mikhail 5Gb/s BASE-T Ethernet
 
6:22 AM
Also, there are a number of RAID/SAS cards that are x16, you run those into a splitter for more disks.
 
x8 is enough to max out the PCIe lanes on X99 systems. Are there any PCIe 3.0 x8 (or higher) SATA/SAS cards?
 
For example, I have one of these on my system so that I can do hardware RAID with 24 drives: intel.com/content/www/us/en/servers/raid/…
 
hatred sometimes is a reflection of jealousy
 
Here's the ASRock boards with 5G: asrock.com/microsite/AMDAM4
@Mikhail That's not 3.0, that's 2.0.
 
6:27 AM
Idk, these are all PCIE 3.0 newegg.com/Product/…
So, most of these are 12 GB/s, so you can put a few on the mobo?
 
Where'd the 12 GB/s come from?
 
LSI 9300 MegaRAID SAS 9361-4i (LSI00415) PCI-Express 3.0 x8 SATA / SAS High Performance Four-Port 12Gb/s RAID Controller (Single Pack)--Avago Technologies
The product title?
 
oh
That's a lower case "b".
 
Ah sorry
 
12 Gb/s, that sounds like for each of the SAS ports. (4 SATAs)
1.5 GB/s for 4 SATAs. That sounds about right for a SATA 3.
 
6:34 AM
So, for example: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151173

Up to 256 12Gb/s SAS or 5Gb/s and 3Gb/s SAS/SATA HDDs/SSD, using 12Gb/s SAS expander, 3x - Internal HD MiniSAS (SFF-8643 Port), 1x External HD MiniSAS (SFF-8644);
 
That's a hefty card.
 
But not as hefty as the HD cost!
 
That's a really big heatsink for a storage controller.
 
Fun fact: all Adaptec cards require a heat sink but don't come with one
Can it really sustain 256*12/8 = 384 GB/s ? Sounds like half a GPU...
 
No. It's capped at 8 GB/s from the PCIe.
But 28 hard drives won't get you to 8 GB/s unless they are SSDs.
 
@Mysticial you go through a splitter, which lets you get more drives
 
@Mikhail I know.
 
Isn't PCIe 3.0 x8 16 GB/s?
 
x16 is, not x8.
 
https://www.trentonsystems.com/industry-applications/pci-express-interface
Total Bandwidth: (x16 link): PCIe 3.0 = 32GB/s, PCIe 2.0 = 16GB/s, PCIe 1.1 = 8GB/s
 
6:54 AM
Then Wikipedia is wrong?
 
Might be an upload/download thing
 
Oh, in each direction.
So bi-directional doubles up.
Oh geez. That wouldn't be a fun optimization to do. Make have the drives read and half the drives write.
 
Also there is crazy stuff like: trentonsystems.com/backplanes/bpg8032
 
holy shit
 
So, in principle it is possible to break out of the form factor limit by using a splitter so that you can utilize all the PCIe lanes of the CPU
 
6:57 AM
The CPU will run out of lanes after 3 PCIe x16 slots.
 
"Supports up to nine NVIDIA® Tesla® 20-series GPUs for cluster computing" :-)
Don't forget you can use 4 CPUs on any reputable motherboard
 
Sounds almost cheaper to just use 4 desktop boards with 3 GPUs each.
Or if your workload isn't memory bound, then yeah, load'em up.
 
Might be some hilarious software licensing issues, many of these codes cost more than the PEs they run on
 
Morning.
 
evening
 
7:03 AM
night
 
Hehe.
 
what if trolls took over news?
 
@Telkitty Didn't they already?
 
in the process, yes, but not completely
 
7:16 AM
trolls vs herding (social network)
 
7:29 AM
The news media lost the trust of the American people because they became eyeball-chasing, clickbait whores.… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/835373664862232576
 
lol twitter ...
actually twitter is the perfect place to study herding
my theory is that, all social animals are herd-able
other than cats of course
 
 
2 hours later…
10:05 AM
@Telkitty Old news :P
"Fake news" shouldn't approach to the white house :P
 
10:20 AM
Do you know if there is already a good question about how to use if/else-statements and return statements in functions?
 
@Telkitty BuzzFeed being blocked is a good thing. :)
 
Xeo
No
 
 
2 hours later…
Ven
12:25 PM
Hi
 
Ell
12:42 PM
hi
 
12:52 PM
I burnt my ring finger and won't be able to play piano today
I didn't expect the back of a fridge to be that hot
 
Ell
Where did you think the heat goes? :D
@Columbo did you have january exams?
 
@Ell Nope. You?
@Ell What heat? It has to cool from 20° to 0°.
 
Ell
@Columbo 5 of them :'(
 
@Ell Aww. How'd it go?
 
Ell
yeah over a while ago
they were all within a week
I thought I'd failed two but I passed all of them :D
and managed to get a first so far too
so I'm a happy chappy
 
12:59 PM
Good on ya!
 
Ell
Do you just have all of yours in summer then?
 
@Ell That's right.
I also just realized I spelled "burned" as "burnt"
@Ell But, again, this does not count towards my final degree
Tripos are awesome ;)
 
Ell
@Columbo you can use either
@Columbo really? :V
just the 4th year?
 
@Ell Really? I kinda felt like I heard it before, yeah
@Ell 3rd
 
Ell
ah
 
1:01 PM
You have 4?
 
Ell
my 3rd year is worth the least
@Columbo yeah
I'm doing an MEng
I thought you were too
 
No, a Bachelor
 
Ell
that explains it
 
Wait, are these things even exclusive
I'm confused
 
Ell
well, it depends
 
1:02 PM
Oh, MEng = Master of ...
That is, your final degree is a master?
 
Ell
yes :)
for me, if I fail my 4th year I leave with nothing
 
I'm also thinking about doing a master's
 
Ell
as opposed to doing bachelors then a masters, in which case if you fail your masters you still have your bachelors
I mean, not that failure is an option >.<
 
Relax dude, you're talented
Just put the effort in
 
Ell
I will :D
It sucks that 100% of your degree is one year though
that's some pressure
 
1:04 PM
@Ell No, it's actually awesome
 
Ell
Why do you like it? :P
it's awful
 
Because in the first two years, you build up the self-discipline and sharp mindset which helps you do well
 
Ell
aha we work so differently
exams are what build self discipline for me
 
Yeah, but if it's part of the process, then you'll perform worse in the first half of your exams
 
@StackedCrooked @Mysticial Hm. It seems that DDIO does something like this. It allocates a number of "ways" of the L3 cache for packet data. (Interesting stuff.)
 
1:11 PM
@набиячлэвэли 15 retweets and 571 likes but I"m still losing faith in humanity. MAAAAAN. How can people be so bigoted
I know: because it convenes them.
 
It certainly could explain why incoming packet data buffers are always aligned to a multiple 512.
 
@sehe hey you can’t afford to verb that
 
Last time I checked convenient was already a derived verbal form
But maybe I'm a tech nerd trying to English
(And sloppy on linguistic jargon)
 
This might be the greatest magazine cover ever https://t.co/NF9oArK9Ym
(for the linguistically disabled: it says "New Yorker" in Cyrillic)
 
1:24 PM
what does it say on the top left though
 
@StackedCrooked Even? Is that surprising and why?
 
or, alternatively, PRICE $8.99
 
@wilx It's kinda amazing how much hated Trump is.
I mean, it's not very surprising. But still something I'm not used to.
 
@набиячлэвэли thanks I couldn’t recognise the initial '⊣' letter and gave up from there
 
1:29 PM
@StackedCrooked Well, most news outlets and almost all artists are lefties. It is expected. I was wondering why even Jodie Foster and M.J.Fox is news.
 
Because Contact <3
 
Also BBC got banned from the media briefing thing so that's fun
@LucDanton Always happy to help :P
 
1:43 PM
let's not forget trump was elected ...
nearly half of americans voted for him
 
// Can the optimizer somehow mess up the measurement?
auto t1 = std::chrono::steady_clock::now();
task.call();
auto t2 = std::chrono::steady_clock::now();
mTimes.push_back(t2 - t1);
 
@StackedCrooked I don't think it can reasonably reorder the statements.
 
Yeah.
I'd think not since the function calls are not transparent to the compiler.
Just want to make sure :)
 
that's what inlining is for
and for std library components, the compiler can have hardcoded knowledge of what they do
 
1:48 PM
also
fact is, dodging the optimizer just makes the bench unrealistic
since in any real case you would obviously hit it as hard as possible
 
The compiler may know that clock::now() does not change the state of my program. so it might rearrange those calls.
 
so recommend that instead of microbenchmarking, you should test your real code with whatever change you have in mind
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Add asm volatile(""); before and after task.call();.
 
However, the benchmark results don't look too extreme.
Hm. that's pretty short though.
I thought my tasks were chunky.
 
@rightfold Aren't there like appropriate C++11 style barriers for this instead?
std::atomic_thread_fence
 
1:53 PM
@rightfold I'll try that.
 
Xeo
Oh yeah, thanks
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Your computer is too fast.
 
user1804599
Get a slower computer.
 
I still have my old core-2 duo from 2007.
But haven't booted it since 2007.
Hey, that's actually 10 years ago.
@rightfold Ok. Didn't make any difference.
 
2:23 PM
@StackedCrooked Are you using Nonius? (easy fix)
 
Non no Nonius
I should probably check it out though.
 
@StackedCrooked github.com/libnonius/nonius/issues/51 Is the actual issue with reference to Chandler's CppCon2015 talk
So that talk would be worthwhile to (re)watch too I guess
 
well that’s going to be hard to top on April 1st
 
@Ven lol
 
2:37 PM
So I was reading the reviews of a book, I am amazed to find that many chinese readers who left a comment actually think it's okay to commit crimes on innocent people out of true love for someone else ...
twisted morality issue
 
@Ven "just" meaning >24h ago
 
Ven
@sehe oh yes let's bikeshed about what "just" means please
Too late to edit anyway. :P
 
is sehe being unjust to you
 
unbearable fairness ...
 
user1804599
I want quickcheck for Fortran.
 
it's pretty funny that some people are still using SVN
 
Hm. I can't get the Nonius examples to compile. I must be missing something obvious.
 
I suggest brains
 
g++ -std=c++14 -isystem nonius-1.2.0-beta.1/include/nonius -isystem nonius-1.2.0-beta.1/include nonius-1.2.0-beta.1/examples/example1.c++
@Puppy I'll get some later.
Strange is that I need to both add include and include/nonius to the path or it fails to compile.
 
ping robot tell him to fix
 
2:54 PM
If I add both then it compiles but fails to link because it's missing a main function. But nonius is supposed to generate that itself.
 
no cases?
 
Also it comes with a few python scripts. I probably need to run those or something
But can't find any instructions.
Ah well.
One day.
 
user1804599
Yay, my first unit test in Fortran.
 
@rightfold Did it run fast?
 
user1804599
$ time build/ads_corr_test
build/ads_corr_test  0.00s user 0.00s system 0% cpu 0.001 total
 
user1804599
2:58 PM
Classic computer, 0 + 0 = 0.001.
 
user1804599
I tests cross-correlation on three four-element vectors: github.com/rightfold/ads/blob/master/test/ads_corr_test.f90
 
user1804599
Of course it's fast.
 
> The library itself is header-only so you don’t have to build it. It comes as a single header that you can drop somewhere and #include it in your code. You can grab the header from the releases page.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ^ However this header does seem to include all other nonius headers
 
did you add the macro?
 
Yeah.
You mean NONIUS_RUNNER?
 
2:59 PM
yeah
 
@Ven pffft I don't think "bikeshedding" means what you think it means :)
 
Ven
@sehe nice one :P
 
nonius-1.2.0-beta.1/examples/example1.c++:1:9: warning: 'NONIUS_RUNNER' macro
 
It is when someone sheds some bike over something that is not a problem.
 
^ If I add -DNONIUS_RUNNER to my command line.
 
Oh. It does work if I use nonius-1.0.0 release.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Instant turn-off for target audience: it starts with the word "Facts"
 
@sehe I'm not sure it's meant for the audience you think. Those people won't care. I think it's meant to protect everyone else.
 
Ven
@EtiennedeMartel hahahah he got pissed of the retards spreading shit
I'm happy.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Fake news! Alternative facts! runs away screaming with fingers in his ears
 
Ven
3:14 PM
onoes we broke Borgy
 
user1804599
Nice avatar.
 
im always broken... (inside) :P
 
Ven
Nice, Cabal's data-files works well.
I take it back, it sucks.
 
Xeo
Hm... to get a yubikey or not...
 
Ell
3:33 PM
I need some kind of sanity check
when you log in using a non-http method, your password goes through the channel in plain text?
 
Xeo
I kinda like the idea of using a yubikey instead of a keyfile for my keepass db, but I don't think I'd be able to open the DB on my mobile devices anymore. @R.MartinhoFernandes, IIRC you use a yubikey - how do you open your password manager of choice on mobile?
 
I've been considering that lately as well (again) with all the breaches and whatnot sigh
 
Xeo
A small part of why I want to do it is because it just seems cool to carry around a physical "key" for digital security.
 
dude
the real cool is to put it on a file and embed it in an RFID chip in your hand
wave hand -> db unlocks
 
Xeo
but that needs an RFID reader on my PC and mobile devices n shit
 
3:38 PM
@Ell HTTP is plain-text too
 
Xeo
also, RFID...
 
Ell
@Puppy oops. I meant https
 
then yes
 
Ell
wow
that's really terrible
 
yes
 
Ell
3:39 PM
I can't believe that was ever done :O
 
that's why everybody is sunsetting HTTP
 
Xeo
They may hash it in some way, but you're basically hosed. Guess why everyone's using HTTPS :P
 
Ell
For some reason for all these years I thought that POST data was encrypted even in HTTP
 
user1804599
lol HTTP without TLS
 
user1804599
Only a fucking moron, like Stack Exchange, would do such a thing.
 
3:47 PM
if HTTP was secure why bother making HTTPS
 
3:59 PM
When I was a kid HTTP used to be normal.
And now everyone's complaining.
Just wait and see when they come back begging.
 

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