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user1804599
 
user1804599
1:13 PM
Lol, my Haskell propaganda tweet exploded
 
user1804599
300 likes
 
> The GCC Java frontend and associated libjava runtime library have been removed from GCC.
Finally /o/
 
@rightfold which one
 
Never used that.
 
@Morwenn does anyone care really
 
user1804599
1:18 PM
Teaching Haskell is cheaper than maintaining Java.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. For the sake of it :p
 
@rightfold haha
 
this option should be in the chat
allow to disable enter for sending send messages
 
@ProblemSlover Just use shift+enter?
 
not convinient
 
1:25 PM
I
find
it
fine
much more than clicking that thing anyway
 
Well at least that allows you to decide
as you use to
 
@ProblemSlover you can also decide by pressing shift
 
@BartekBanachewicz well looks like we have different preferences. either way.. that option protects you from accidental submitting of messages
sand des'nrt affect your experience as you free to opt out it
 
> Le sachiez-vous ? "mdr" n'est en fait pas un signe de ponctuation.
 
user1804599
v = (/ 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 /)
u = (/ 4.0, 5.0, 6.0 /)
d = dot_product(v, u)
 
user1804599
1:38 PM
RAD
 
ok sorry
$("#chat-buttons").append($('<input type="button" onclick="foo()" value="toggle enter">'))
origDown = $._data(document.getElementById("input"), "events").keydown;
enterDisabled = false;
function foo() {
	if (enterDisabled) {
		$._data(document.getElementById("input"), "events").keydown = origDown;
	} else {
		$._data(document.getElementById("input"), "events").keydown = [];
	}
	enterDisabled = !enterDisabled;
}
@ProblemSlover there you go
 
@ratchetfreak That is why we're talking passwords :P chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/35818719#35818719
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that was scrolled of the screen when I joined, it also wasn't in the starred messages where I expected that to show up as well
 
@BartekBanachewicz and?. feel free to add it to the chat features though
 
@ProblemSlover paste it into dev console and you'll get the toggle button vOv
 
1:48 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I'm lazy to do that
 
@ProblemSlover Then use greasemonkey? or w/e other custom script addon
 
@ratchetfreak Some printers have their own hard drive for storing jobs.
Things can stay there for a really long time.
 
@BartekBanachewicz nope. I will probably go ahead and fill up my hungry stomach :)
 
amazing
I wonder what will your generation do when people from mine run out
 
@BartekBanachewicz having vacations on the mars :D
 
1:52 PM
Bartek the baby boomer oh wait millennial.
 
Bartek2000
 
Emile Enial.
 
user1804599
phi = 1
DO i = 1, 20, 1
    PRINT '(F20.18)', phi
    phi = 1 + 1 / phi
END DO
 
user1804599
omg so awesome
 
user1804599
take 20 $ scanl (\n _ -> 1.0 + 1.0 / n) 1.0 [1..]
 
2:08 PM
Avoid struct padding is like playing Tetris.
But without time limit. And you can choose which piece you get.
 
user1804599
Blokken.
 
a variation of the knapsack problem
 
user1804599
> Google: The SHA-1 collision is the biggest news today
Cloudflare: Hold my beer
 
the last few months have shown that the internet isn't as decentralized as people would like it to be
 
Er, avoiding struct padding is trivial?
 
2:15 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes So with your guy we are 6 for Nomic. I think it's a very very very decent group of people to start with. I don't know, but that is what people are telling me. We have the best people honestly. Believe me.
 
@Shoe Where do we play?
 
Maybe we can ask Cat to open a subforum on loungecpp
Or wait
Is Github feasible?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes assuming padding requirements are all power of 2 then just sort the members by decreasing padding requirement
 
Either a repo or gist
 
@ratchetfreak In C++, they are.
 
2:18 PM
though doesn't use the internal padding of the members
 
@Shoe And discussion in comments?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Or issues
 
Ah, issues sounds interesting.
 
Is your friend a programmer?
 
2:20 PM
Great
Imma open a repo on LoungeCpp
 
2:37 PM
**A game of [Nomic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic) (democracy simulator) is starting the 1st of March. We'll use [this repository](https://github.com/LoungeCPP/Nomic) which is accessible by [this team](https://github.com/orgs/LoungeCPP/teams/nomic-squad). In order to play, ping me your github name and join the [LoungeCPP organisation](https://github.com/LoungeCPP).**
We accept new member up to the day before the official starting date; don't worry if you don't know the rules, we'll explain everything as we go. In the meantime please read the rules on the repo and the wikipedia page.
Fuck me
5
 
No multiline markdown.
 
Yeah just found out
Give me a sec
 
Ven
fail
 
wtf
 
2:42 PM
Use the sandbox.
@Shoe Need http://
 
A game of Nomic (democracy simulator) is starting the 1st of March. We'll use this repository which is accessible by this team. In order to play, ping me your Github username and join the LoungeCPP organisation (we'll accept new players up to the day before the starting date).
4
Of course the Loungers all woke up to laugh at me failing
You lurking bastards
 
I miised the fun.
 
Just some markdown fail
 
2:50 PM
uh
I've realized I have no idea how to do that multiple assignment properly
I'm not even sure if it works well right now in regular assingment
 
user1804599
3:02 PM
Treat single assignment as multiple assignment with only one target.
 
@Shoe thecoshman
 
@thecoshman Added
lol
 
@Shoe ha ha ha, I am both a member and a person waiting to be accepted XD
don't fix it
 
I wonder what happens if I deny
 
it's too beautiful
ooh... good question
 
3:10 PM
Bets are on
 
let's find out
 
Fuck GUI code.
 
Nothing, you are still a member
 
It's more a backend issue I think
I think I somehow got into both a request queue but then also got given explicate access
 
Yeah, probably some queue
Concurrency issues
 
3:11 PM
It's a very odd edge case
I wonder if I have my stuff from previous play through...
I made notes of ideas for rules to add/modify
 
I hope there's a backup of the old nomic forum somewhere
Weren't we thinking of moving to some other platform back then?
 
oh yeah, we used something random didn't we
I think so yeah, that platform sucked
 
It was Jeff's platform
Discourse I think
Dicksource
Something like that
 
well, I think we wanted to have some way of allowing rules to come into effect without having to be so held up waiting for each other
Already know my first rule I want to add :D
 
lol
 
3:15 PM
oh wait, no I don't XD
I love this game so much
 
We'll probably need to officialise github as a platform
 
@thecoshman That sounds like something I'll have to strongly campaign against.
 
let's not talk too much about things untill we actually start
 
Ye
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, it was more that we wanted to be able to get away from a "round robin with everyone having to be present"
but yeah, let's keep the chat to a minimum till we start?
 
3:17 PM
Oh yeah now I have flashbacks from the old nomic game
 
also, can we maybe not use snack chat for this, mostly as I feel it's grossly out of place
 
snack chat is dead anyway most of the time
But yeah, we'll use github issues probably for all discussions
 
 
3:42 PM
@Shoe @R.MartinhoFernandes any preferences on how/when/where we start?
 
user1804599
@Shoe Discourse
 
Chinese Q&A Unicorn has rised (oops wrong)... I'm looking to become fluent in mandarin. It's really worth that..
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/billion-dollar-unicorn-zhihu-imitates-quora-builds-valuation-mitra
 
3:57 PM
@thecoshman I've arbitrarily decided 1st of March
 
care to be a bit more specific?
 
1st of March of 2017 CE
 
On the 1st of March I'll propose some change and we'll go from there.
Then I guess we can keep the order of join in the github team as starting order
 
Debugging mouse dragging interactions is the worst.
 
record mouse input and replay it on loop?
 
4:08 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you might even say, they drag
 
though I generally fall back to printf
 
4:19 PM
HAHAHAHAH I just ended up here stackoverflow.com/documentation/unicode/topics
Great docs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't have Unicode installed, and the URI for the web site was in UTF-8, leaving me in a catch-22 situation, where I couldn't get to the web site until it was already installed.
 
"How to convert a string to UTF-8 in Python" shows an example of how to convert from UTF-8 to a string.
docs.SO <3
> before 2008 ASCII was, ehich also can handle any Unicode code point
What is is.
The "request improvement" dialog doesn't have a "it's blatantly wrong" option.
 
oh god, docs are just bad :(
 
What'd you expect to happen
 
I think just deleting all that stuff would make the Internet a better place, which is (or was?) SO's mission.
 
4:30 PM
it may just need time for the blatantly wrong things to get fixed
 
it can only have about the same quality as the other SO content
since it's written by the same people who write the other SO content
SO did not specifically select and hire unicode experts to write unicode docs
 
@ratchetfreak But that's true of e.g. cppreference.com too.
cppreference.com, OTOH, is of high-quality, because it's actually curated, not gamified.
 
In Java a member variable can have the same name as a member function
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes dooo it
 
I'm starting to like Java
 
4:32 PM
@thecoshman Can't.
 
It's so pragmatic and developer friendly
 
I have a silver tag badge on .
 
it's a wiki, you should expect crap content once in a while
 
C++ feels like a pile of shit in comparison
 
@Columbo This is curable (with early detection).
 
4:33 PM
@ratchetfreak cppreference.com is a wiki too! (I.e. no excuse)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes stop asking for upvotes :P
 
@JerryCoffin No, I mean it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes doc.SO hasn't died yet?
 
(Is it too late?)
 
@Columbo So do I.
 
4:33 PM
@ratchetfreak but it's a wiki for games sake
 
@thecoshman Actually, I don't need upvotes
 
other wikis tend to be driven more by people who want to do things
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes slacker
 
If I post 46 answers with -1 score, I still get the gold badge.
 
4:34 PM
if voters actually voted to actual correctness then it wouldn't be this bad
 
You can't fix people.
 
@ratchetfreak If the voters knew the correct answer, they wouldn't have searched for it in the first place
 
user1804599
Apparently V8 is bad at optimizing while (i++ < n), and while (n-- > 0) is faster because the > definitely operates on two numbers.
 
@ratchetfreak Most of the voters can't recognize correctness.
 
which is kinda a core cause they vote things that look correct
 
4:35 PM
you can fix people a sandwich though
 
Pick any example of great docs out there.
They're all properly curated. By experts.
 
or only expert contribute
 
user1804599
Interesting; var x = '1'; return x--; returns 1, not '1'.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well you can, but people seem to get real edgy when you suggest killing of those who are not up to scratch vOv
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have a similar situation with .
 
4:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes docs.SO might make a good case study in "the limits of crowd-sourcing".
@Mysticial Of course, from SO's viewpoint, the problem is simple: you (i.e., the people who actually know something about this field) aren't contributing.
 
what is lacking in expertise, sheer enthusiasm can't compensate for
 
@ratchetfreak It can in the long term--i.e., somebody who isn't an expert, but is sufficiently enthused can become an expert if they work at it hard enough for long enough. Most don't have nearly that level of enthusiasm though.
 
but they also need a source of information that isn't docs.SO
 
@JerryCoffin Guess why I went to the unicode docs?
But I'm sorry, I have no interest in fighting headless chickens.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes to have a chuckle at how bad it could be?
 
4:42 PM
@JerryCoffin That's probably the case for at least several of my tags.
 
got turned off pretty much immediately from things to do with C++ concepts myself :(
 
@JerryCoffin so what you're saying is, you need expertise
 
@ratchetfreak That was a defense mechanism, to avoid being depressed from the state of it.
I wouldn't mind contributing, but I'm not interested in using "contributing" as a synonym for fixing a ton of unnecessary mistakes.
If I have to rewrite everything, you'll have to find someone else to do your "contributing".
And technically, the system doesn't want my contributions.
 
Feb 8 at 18:47, by Luc Danton
> The utility of void_t was discovered by Walter Brown. He gave a wonderful presentation on it at CppCon 2016.
 
There's no way to flag things as wrong (though "hideously wrong" would be more appropriate sometimes), and I can't delete some of that garbage either.
 
4:46 PM
from my last doc notification
 
And deleting that garbage would make it better, because there'd be less wrong stuff in it.
@LucDanton lol
Maybe the C# docs are nice because Jon Skeet is crazy.
 
mandatory best depiction of jon skeet
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't get me wrong: I can't blame you. Trying to build even a small oasis in the middle of a desert would be hard work--even if there weren't 10 (perhaps well-meaning, but uninformed) morons tearing things down and/or covering it garbage for every one who's contributing anything worthwhile.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well...sort of not incorrect. Regardless of encoding, saving as CSV isn't exactly "saving an Excel file" in any reasonable sense of the phrase.
 
user1804599
4:55 PM
XD
 
@JerryCoffin Oh lol I missed that.
 
user1804599
> an encoding way
 
GEEE
lolwut
(Nevermind the purple bar; my build completed and that's the splash screen :D; back to debugging)
 
user1804599
Don't you need like 10k rep in the relevant tag to contribute documentation?
 
@rightfold hahaha you wish
 
user1804599
4:57 PM
lol docs.so
 
@rightfold That was one of the things some people insisted on at the start, but the team doesn't like it, for some reason.
 
not every expert has been lucky in their answers
and some topics just are too new to have that much rep in the tags
 
user1804599
Better 20% of experts than 80% of noobs.
 
@ratchetfreak then they are too new to write docs :P
 
Arguably, yeah.
 
5:03 PM
stricter requirements for popular tags should be implemented though
 
Also, meh, sacrificing well-established topics for these new-fangled bullshit?
Terrible idea.
 
user1804599
New things change a lot.
 
user1804599
Keeping the docs up to date is too difficult.
 
Personally I think this docs thing shouldn't exist in the first place, but well.
If it's going to, it'd be nice if it was actually making things better.
 
I get the idea, but a lot of things do document themselves well, and so they don't need this
 
5:05 PM
but if the hype curve is before the Trough of Disillusionment you'll still have a lot of enthusiasm to get things "out there"
 
who is the coliru guy in here?
i found a bug
 
it's QueuedStraight
 
it does not allow to share this code:
int main() {
   int he⁠llo=1; int hello=2;
   return he⁠llo + hello;
}
 
@StackedCrooked
 
Feb 3 '16 at 4:42, by Luc Danton
huh
 
5:16 PM
Luc Bananaton
@LucDanton that link shows just an empty text edit field and when I edit, it says "undefined"
 
Hm. It doesn't seem trivial to setup a Linux raw socket that uses async callbacks. Seems to require signal handler.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked libuv supports raw sockets
 
user1804599
And libuv works with callbacks.
 
user1804599
Look up the implementation of uv_udp_open. The name says UDP but it works with any datagram contract socket.
 
doing your own epolling in a loop no option?
 
5:21 PM
Everything is an option at this point :)
@rightfold Interesting.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Then just use libuv.
 
I don't really fancy getting another 3rd party lib for this.
I should probably check out how to use boost::asio with raw sockets.
 
5:42 PM
@StackedCrooked perhaps also an option github.com/Reactive-Extensions/RxCpp
 
> However, for all allocator-based containers, such as std::vector, there is still a problem: std::launder() does not help to avoid undefined behavior.
 
@LucDanton what is std::launder?
i seem to remember it's a "get me a fresh pointer that's unaliased" ?
 
'unaliased' is not exactly it but yeah that’s the one
 
is there also the opposite of it?
say you have a void* and you want to assert that it points to a local variable int p;
how do you do it?
 
convert it and you’re done
 
6:50 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb ptr = &p;?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb So what's the purpose of that? I can't figure out a use for it from the doc on cppreference.
As much as I would love to have formal restrict semantics, compilers are still shit at utilizing it.
 
user784668
7:18 PM
holy shit
 
user784668
The whole SHA-1 collision thing made me realize how completely, utterly clueless the average programmer is when it comes to crypto.
 
hey, crypto stuff is after all a specialization
don't blame the average programmer too much
(sorta similar to blaming the average doctor for being utterly clueless about specialty neurosurgery)
 
user784668
@BogdanMarginean Yeah, but I'd expect people to be able to distinguish a hash function from a cipher.
 
user784668
I don't expect them to understand, I dunno, rotational cryptanalysis.
 
eh
I don't see what about SHA-1 points to ignorance about cluelessness about crypto
 
user784668
7:23 PM
@Puppy I'm talking about the reaction of the internet peanut gallery, obviously.
 
oh
well SHA-1 is an old function long past its prime, its death has been in the wind for ages
there's nothing surprising about it
 
@Puppy If anything, rather the opposite--if there's a surprise, it's that nobody's bothered to find a collision until now; the break against the algorithm they used has been known for years now.
 
user784668
@JerryCoffin Nobody's bothered to publicize a collision.
 
@Fanael Yes, it's certainly possible that somebody could have found a collision previously (and possibly even put it to nefarious purposes). OTOH, most of obvious ways to use it for profit have been semi-dead for a while now (e.g., most browsers no longer accept SHA-1 based certificates).
 
Now the race is to see how long the SHA2 family will survive. Supposedly that mixing step made it a lot harder to penetrate than SHA1.
But I don't think it has gotten attacked much since everybody only cared about SHA1.
 
user784668
7:36 PM
@Mysticial It's not out of the question that SHA-2 will outlive SHA-3.
 
I'm surprised they did away with add operations from SHA-3. I would've thought that the carry propagation made it harder to break. But I'm no crypto expert.
Supposedly the "bit selection" step in the first 20 rounds of SHA1 could be exploited by an attack. So they did away with that in SHA2.
 
user784668
@Mysticial They wanted a design that's as much different from SHA-2 as possible.
 
@Mysticial There have been quite a few attempted attacks--just very few that have succeeded to even a large enough extent that they generate a whole lot of interest, even among crypto specialists. Nearly all are either against a drastically reduced number of rounds, or else make too little reduction in complexity to matter.
 
user784668
@Mysticial So they picked the candidate that was as far from an ARX one as possible.
 
@Mysticial The addition is generally credited with making SHA-2 much more difficult to attack than SHA-1.
 
7:40 PM
@JerryCoffin I thought it was the pre-round rotation mixing that did it. In SHA1, it was only a single shift. In SHA0, it didn't exist.
 
user784668
@Mysticial Not that it matters much, because ARX forms a complete system, so you could, in theory, implement the Keccak permutation using only addition, rotation and XOR.
 
user784668
@Mysticial Also, addition may be vulnerable to timing and/or power attacks in hardware, depending on the adder design.
 
Good point.
 
user784668
@Mysticial But if you want an ARX design, go ahead and use SHA-2, BLAKE or Skein, they're perfectly fine.
 
user784668
> nice -n19 ./a.out 35196,84s user 102,91s system 277% cpu 3:31:45,01 total
 
user784668
7:47 PM
What do these numbers even mean?
 
user784668
Is "user" the CPU-time spent in userspace?
 
@Mysticial It makes some difference, but the addition increases the avalanche effect, which is generally cited as the big improvement.
 
user784668
@JerryCoffin I joke that the real winner of the SHA-3 competition was SHA-2, for precisely this reason.
 
When I look at the crypto attackers table and it gives this sort of impression that the 512-bit SHA2 hashes are "proportionally" easier to break than the 256-bit one.
 
@Fanael Certainly the SHA-3 competition generated a lot of interest in attacks on SHA-2 (and yes, they ultimately did more to confirm the security of SHA-2 than they did to show any weakness).
 
7:50 PM
> Preimage
SHA-256 45/64 2^255.5
SHA-512 50/80 2^511.5
 
Hey is this the right place to ask some advice on AVX2 C++ code? I don't want to ask a new question since I think the answer isn't conclusive.
 
no
 
user784668
@Steven Yes.
 
They had to remove 19 rounds from SHA256 to achieve the same as removing 30 rounds from SHA512.
 
user784668
@Mysticial That's not really how it works. They're not removing rounds, they're come up with a possible attack and try to extend it to as many rounds as they can.
 
7:53 PM
oh
 
I have 8 vectors3 packed into __m256 x, y, z; I have to multiply them all by a 3x3 matrix. Currently I broadcast the 3x3 matrix into 9 __m256 and simply do the madd/mul. But I wonder if I would be better to somhow pack the matrix differently, since it is the same value for all vectors.
But I'm new to SIMD and so generally I am just reworking my existing code to be 8 times wide.
 
@Fanael So does that mean that they were able to extend the attack to 45 rounds on SHA256 vs. 50 on SHA512? And why would using 64-bit integers make it possible to go further?
BTW, I no almost nothing about detailed crypto.
 
user784668
@Mysticial It's not using 64-bit integers, it's the bigger state what matters.
 
user784668
Bigger state means more computation necessary to mix it up, pretty much.
 
oooooh ic
I also noticed that SHA512 has 80 rounds vs. 64 for SHA256. As if there was a reason for that.
 
user1804599
Fucking fuck this is fucking hilarious.
 
8:32 PM
hmmm
is it sane to represent all possible mouse events with a single event
yeah fuck it, not worth writing 99 MouseLeftDown events
 
Which locale is imbued in standard input/output at the start of main()/process?
Is it the C locale or the user locale?
 
9:19 PM
Hayao Miyazaki comes out of retirement. Cool :D @Mysticial @Xeo
 
lolwut
You can't just do that. That's against the laws of Anime.
 
9:38 PM
#simple
 
@StackedCrooked 5 minute retirement much
@BogdanMarginean 151MB :cripes:
inb4 notepad clone
 
Hmm, can I reuse single std::match_results variable multiple times for multiple calls to std::regex_match()?
 
@набиячлэвэли 521 likes :yikes:
@BogdanMarginean GPL-2.0 is seriously long
@wilx I'm gonna say "yes" (because, why not). But. yeah the specs are lacking slightly I guess
 
@sehe That's what I thought. I actually did not read the standard but took a look at cppreference.com.
 
I never look at the standard anymore, really. Cppreference all the way
 
user1804599
9:56 PM
SQL is basically functional programming with Boost.MultiIndex
 
10:07 PM
@sehe heresy!
 
@rightfold couldn't disagree more there
Good luck mimicking the basic ingredients of an RDBMS with just boost MI
 
10:18 PM
@rightfold Last time I checked MultiIndex was pretty horrible to declare.
Well, another interview for C++ position, another coding exercise. At least this was not Codility and effectively not time limited.
I suck at C++ though.
Like more than I used to. :(
The World has changed with C++11.
 
user1804599
LOL
 
@rightfold Weird. I have never found The Office funny. I lack receptors for this kind of humour, I guess.
 

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