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1:03 AM
I cannot count the number of times I step into a related field of math and find out that the equations are using familiar notation in completely different ways
 
I always get a bit confused about initialization. Can anyone remind me:
struct foo { int bar; };
 
@Aaron3468 that's because the universe hates everyone in general and you in particular
 
if I write foo f = foo();, is bar always zeroed?
(vs. just foo f;, where it's undetermined)
 
@jaggedSpire The universe is giving me a catface
 
@Aaron3468 absolutely :3
 
1:07 AM
@zneak Hold on while I boot up coliru. Fantastic place to test C++ compilation and share the results
 
@Aaron3468 any result will be of foo().bar value
 
@Telkitty so you're saying I shouldn't wander aimlessly around Chicago at night
 
stats says, if you want to accidentally die by gunshot, choose Chicago
@jaggedSpire live dangerously!
 
eh, I can live dangerously closer to home
 
1:10 AM
@Aaron3468, my fear is that if I get zero initialization from testing, I might just have gotten lucky.
 
actually
it looks like I can live more dangerously at home
 
@zneak that’s a reasonable fear
 
note to self: don't wander around downtown aimlessly at night
 
@zneak Always good to double check, or Undefined Behaviour will bite you
 
foo() does result in a zero-init’d bar
 
1:11 AM
Though it looks like value initialization will zero things, and default initialization won't.
 
#15 in the world for 2015 murder rates is not actually a good thing
 
If I recall, it's zero initialized according to type; for most types it's defined. But I'm trying to find the documentation for that.
 
@jaggedSpire how long have you been in Chicago?
 
St. Louis is actually worse than Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore
 
the link I just gave says it does
I'm happy with that
 
1:12 AM
@Telkitty not Chicago, the wonderland of murder that is St. Louis.
 
~_~
 
waaaiiit
yeah
only one worse in the US is New Orleans
in terms of murders that year, that is
It's #1 in the us for murder rate :P
An enjoyable 59.23 people murdered for every 100,000 inhabitants
did I say enjoyable?
I meant awful
not a patch on Caracas though, with its delightfully terrible 119.87 murders per 100,000 people
so there's that at least
 
Honestly, it is remarkable how many options a statistician has available to pad results if they start making assumptions about data. e.g, using other stats as a proxy estimate for unreported portions of the data
 
it's pretty great
An example that's relevant to the murder rates discussed here: St. Louis' metro area covers about 13 counties, and contains about 3 million people. The borders of the city, however, contain only one county, and are only a tiny slice of the very core of the metropolis.
Anyone can simply choose to define St. Louis as the area contained by the perimeter that gives the most satisfying results.
Since St. Louis essentially straddles a state line, you can get additional granularity by excluding all the counties in the other state, saying that they're instead East St. Louis, which is clearly an entirely different municipality.
fun times with city limits
 
Haha, yes. The moment geography or languages are involved, statistics become significantly less precise. And yet policy makers have no option but to rely on them; not a lot you can be informed about without them :/
It's a bit like debugging honestly. It takes a minute to produce code, but 2 hours to find the problems
 
1:30 AM
also fun: I said municipality. It actually is a different municipality--the municipality of St. Louis City is actually only St. Louis City County. Other counties do indeed have different municipalities, including St. Louis County, which IIRC has 91, some of which you may have seen in the news over the last few years due to some rather...heated disagreements.
 
I recall hearing about it, but don't remember the details
 
Recall the name Ferguson?
 
Oh yes
 
yeah, that's one of the aforementioned municipalities
there were other fun things happening, like one municipality setting up laws more suited to being rules from Homeowners' Association run by Satan, fining people for breaking those laws, not really doing a good job of telling them about the court dates so they'd get an arrest warrant, arresting the people over the court dates and fines and then tossing them in prison so they'd lose their job and be unable to pay the fines before interest started stacking up
 
@jaggedSpire :/ that's a very sad situation
 
1:39 AM
@Aaron3468 it really, really is.
 
It's just devious enough that I'm eyeing my tinfoil hat...
 
ah, here we are
have a nice sauce
or a sad one, as the case is
they've been working on fixing it so fines can't be abused again, though.
 
And unfortunately it's a dysfunctional system that will continue to return until they correct their spending, or an external entity funds their shortfall.
 
yeah.
I've not really heard what Pagedale is doing to supplement its suddenly decreased fine income, but it's not like it's guaranteed it won't be evil.
they've rather plainly demonstrated their capacity for evil here
On the other hand, there are a few new things springing up--the municipalities aren't merging, but they are starting to explore other alternatives. I believe five of them have decided to pool their police forces to reduce overhead.
 
Bureaucracy is not the same kind of evil as murder or theft, which quite clearly defy boundaries of person and property. The effects of bad policy can often be deferred until they become visible years or decades later. I guess one might say the relationship between government, corporation, and individuals is mutually parasitic
@jaggedSpire That's a good sign. It'll definitely relieve the pressure a bit for everybody involved
 
2:10 AM
So, we won't have explicit threads.
BUT! We are going to have...
var arr : int[100] = {};
parallel ( thread_count = 4 ) for (var x = 0; x < 25; ++x ) {
     arr[x * thread_index] = /* all the computation */;
}
 
2:37 AM
Digit separator....
I guess I'll go with '.
 
3:24 AM
Guess if I'm going to have arbitrary bases, I need to define the legal character set usable...
 
 
1 hour later…
4:50 AM
Thinking out of the box :P
 
 
2 hours later…
Ven
6:33 AM
Hi, lounge.
 
Hiyo
 
Sam
Hi!
 
Ven
6:55 AM
@ThePhD still awake?!
 
7:05 AM
Yes.
I'm working on the formal specification for my language.
 
Ven
Committing it to your repo?
 
7:23 AM
@ThePhD Will it have functional languages features?
 
I don't know what that means.
Currying and stuff? Not really...?
Lambdas, yes those are planned, if we don't drown trying to do the parallelism work first.
Functions as first class objects, yes.
Overloading not in sight.
 
Ven
\o/
@ThePhD as an american citizen, can you explain to me what's an "absentee ballot request"
 
@Ven It's where you can't physically attend a poll, so you request the state to send you a ballot that you can tie to your Personally Identifiable Information and then send in as your vote.
 
Wow. This lounge is lively lately
1 whole page since yesterday 19h
 
Ven
7:34 AM
Both are.
 
Oh. Wait. That was just rotten browser update. Did they push a chat update
 
Ven
If a chat is updated but no one is here to here the meow, ...
영어 chats
 
Good international pun
 
@Ven ayy, make sure to tell everyone it’s in English
or I guess we could find the original somewhere and link that? naaah, too complicated
 
Ven
@LucDanton :D
Lettre à l'US
 
user1804599
7:49 AM
Hi.
 
Ven
yo
 
@ThePhD You need to quote the literals in your grammar environments: \alt <relational_expression> <' <additive_expression>`, otherwise ligatures processing kicks in and you get inverted question mark and such.
Also, you might want to start your preamble.tex with \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} to avoid that.
 
I was actually thinking of using fonte- yeah.
 
Also, at places you spell out LePiX instead of using \lepix{} macro that you have invented.
 
That's because people other than me are editing this.
 
7:58 AM
"fonte-"?
@ThePhD Oh.
 
fontenc, yeah, but I'm not sure if it'll fuck with some packages.
So I gotta clean everything up and then try fontenc.
 
Oh shit, this should have been \alt <relational_expression> `<' <additive_expression>
 
@wilx I'm betting you starred the link I shared today :P
 
@ProblemSlover I did. :D
 
@JerryCoffin again, it would only reduce the chances of repeat offensive. Death would make it certain that repeat offences aren't committed. And we still haven't prevented initial crimes
 
8:05 AM
@wilx have th
the false hope that it's a porn lo
Security Research is the coolest thing ever. :/
 
Hey
 
Using fontenc seems to break things.
RIP.
 
@ThePhD What things?
 
It gives me some weird error that the LaTeX editor won't show me in full...
 
8:13 AM
Without it, you have other issues.
 
@Griwes i wonder whether he knows me actually?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Who?
 
@ThePhD latexmk -pdf -gg lepix-lang.tex from command line to see all of the messages.
 
i almost never talked to STL of microsoft, so I'm unsure
 
Ah, STL.
 
8:14 AM
you seemed to have asked STL whether he knows me :p
i think i once commented on one of his videos on that MS video site
 
He said that he knows your name. :P
 
Ven
pretty serious
 
pdfTeX error (font expansion): auto expansion is only possible with scalable fonts. \item[]
Oh. My empty-label trick makes fontenc sad.
 
@ThePhD Heh.
 
8:16 AM
That's a tad bit of a deal breaker for me. :<
 
@ThePhD What is the trick and why do you need it? :)
Also, it works for me, here, I think.
 
Why latex though?
 
I use it to make cheap indented lists without any numbering.
 
I'm sure you can do a bullet list and set the bullet point marker to be some form of white space
 
8:18 AM
I don't want to use the syntax package because this isn't a formal specification.
Just a basic listing.
 
Ell
@ThePhD use XeLaTeX and fontspec to get proper font support :P
 
Question:
Visual Studio + mingw-w64 a thing?
 
@VermillionAzure Not Really™.
 
Hm.
What about Clang?
 
as a frontend, backend or intellisense engine?
lol
 
8:21 AM
Integration
 
Partial Differentiation?
Overload Resolutional Integrational Comprehension?
 
Well I guess the better question is
 
@VermillionAzure "Integration" tells nothing about it :p
 
Should I be concerned about MSVC licensing restrictions?
 
or i'm missing some buzz word here
 
8:23 AM
and if not, is there a way to substitute MSVC for Clang or MinGW-w64?
 
@ThePhD \usepackage{enumitem} and then \begin{itemize}[label={}]
 
@ThePhD Pretty sure there's an actual package allowing you to put grammar rules into a LaTeX document sensibly.
(Doing it as a list is... err... not sensible.)
 
@Griwes syntax, I know
 
@Griwes He uses syntax package for BNFs.
 
But these aren't real grammar lsits.
 
8:25 AM
We're talking about that literal, right?
 
^ I use syntax for stuff like this, but I don't need the < > and stuff or the ::= that's required.
 
If I'm correctly assuming we're talking about that literal, just make it BNF and be done with it. :P
 
@ThePhD You can even wrap the above customized itemize environment with \newenvironment and create your own custom environment.
 
That would probably be a smart idea, because the copy-pasta is bound to fail me at some point...
 
"Use 0 for true and 1 for false." - mind-boggling. — Bengt Sep 11 '12 at 10:55
 
8:39 AM
I really hate that doing " stuff " in LaTeX's syntax package bolds the stuff between the " "
 
Ven
Yesterday people were talking about weird x86 instructions. Related to... bitcoin? I can't remember
it was something seemingly very stupid
 
@sehe use true + true = 2
 
@ThePhD Does it? It seems to me it just uses tt font which just seems heavier than the surrounding Computer Modern.
@ThePhD I think that is how literals are represented by the package.
@ThePhD: Is this what you are talking about? \alt \#import "\"file_name\""
 
user1804599
8:55 AM
In singly linked lists linear search is faster than binary search lol
 
@rightfold Only if the comparison is not significantly more costly than the traversal.
 
user1804599
:O
 
user1804599
:>
 
@rightfold what did you smoke today
 
traversal is often a cache miss so you get quite a bit of leeway
 
8:57 AM
The ABS is rather notorious as a source for inaccurate (or, on better days, merely misleading) guidance; consider it the W3Schools of shell scripting. Consider the bash-hackers.org or wooledge wikis as alternatives maintained with an eye to accuracy. — Charles Duffy Jul 14 at 21:36
Guess what I'm doing
 
Ven
@ratchetfreak "often"? for a linked list?
more like always
 
well unless you customize how you allocate your nodes
 
user1593881
Go ahead and give this cppcon video a huge dislike: youtube.com/watch?v=vGUm3bQStVM
 
user1593881
What a load of rubbish.
 
lol
 
user1593881
9:05 AM
Complete with that pathetic "Can't we be friends? animation.
 
lol
 
I WANT TO BE A NOOGLE
 
It's cute how you went out of your way to come to a place you don't frequent just to spew hate for a video all of us probably just ignored.
Also lol spewing hate for a lightning talk.
 
@Griwes No no no
 
Ven
@ThePhD well, the problem is more WRT deadlines. Because you get it the 7th nov, and you're supposed to have it sent back by the 8th?!
 
9:07 AM
How pathetic is that?
 
It's bad to pounce on somebody for self hate kappa
 
user1593881
@Griwes Haha you should get out more Griwes.
 
Ven
you're boring
entertain us more
 
@RawN I spoke in the big room at the conference, mate.
 
@RawN Who are you anyways?
@Griwes Ooh can I have a link?!
 
user1593881
9:09 AM
How did this commercial product named QT ever become a piece of the c++ paradigm?
 
@RawN It's not usually
@RawN At least from what I understand
 
@RawN I have this weird feeling that it's you who needs to get out more.
 
user1593881
@VermillionAzure Not according to that guy in the video.
 
user1593881
@Griwes Qt fanboy.
 
user1593881
Kidding.
 
9:10 AM
I find it incredibly funny that you're going an extra mile to maybe get us to downvote a youtube video of a lighting talk that happened at a conference.
 
@RawN Uhhhhhhhh...
 
user1593881
I did not downvote it
 
Just because people use in different various applications doesn't mean it's inherently embedded in the language ecosystem
Besides, many major projects are without Qt.
 
user1593881
@Griwes What was your speech about?
 
user1593881
Would like to take a look at it.
 
9:11 AM
> speech
 
Ven
It is I, guriwesu.
 
It's trivial to figure it out knowing my nick.
 
@RawN But seriously who are you I aven't seen you before
 
@Ven oh come on
I'll change it to @Griwes if you make the guy currently holding it drop it.
 
Ven
Listen to me for I am Schrodincada's cat, Right or Wrong as he deems be.
 
9:13 AM
@ThePhD: I think you are using the syntax package is it was not intended. E.g., in your preprocessor grammar specification, you should put #import, etc., into quotes "#import" so that it is obvious it is a literal.
 
user1593881
@VermillionAzure Who am I? Loool.
 
@Griwes You look like you like bikes. Am I right?
 
@ThePhD: You can avoid the font change for the literals by redefining some macros, as is suggest by the package's documentation:
\renewcommand{\litleft}{`\begingroup\normalfont }
\renewcommand{\litright}{\endgroup'}
\renewcommand{\ulitleft}{\begingroup\normalfont }
\renewcommand{\ulitright}{\endgroup}
 
@RawN I'm serious though
 
user1804599
@Ven [typ-elevel llmabda calculus evaklutuaion}(github.com/LiamGoodacre/purescript-typelevel-eval/blob/master/…)
 
Ven
9:16 AM
@rightfold fail
 
@rightfold wrongfold
 
Ven
what a mess
 
I wonder if I'll ever get the chance to go to CPPCon...
 
user1593881
@VermillionAzure It's not that expensive. Especially if your company pays for it.
 
@RawN You say that
@RawN And then you forget I'm a junior in college without a company or a job and I live in Hawaii
@RawN So just taking the glub-glub roadtrip to Bellevue is going to be kind of hard
 
Ven
9:20 AM
You should learn C++ first
 
^
 
nwp
@RawN As someone who uses Qt daily I would say the reason for 2 communities is that it is impossible to write decent C++ in Qt. Qt is its own dialect that has diverged so far that simple things like putting a class in a .cpp file or QList<std::unique_ptr> just don't work. Also the memory management is completely different.
If one wanted to fix that one would need to fork Qt, remove moc, change the ownership model, support move semantics and actually make it a C++ library instead of a dialect implementation.
 
user1593881
@nwp Finally someone with an argument on the subject.
 
@nwp You think there's a way to make a cross-platform, modernized GUI framework that'll work on multiple platforms without the unholy trinity?
 
user1593881
Thanks. And I do agree with you.
 
nwp
9:24 AM
@VermillionAzure which unholy trinity?
I do agree with the video though, I would be very happy if Qt and C++ came closer together.
 
Ven
@nwp mvc maybe
 
@nwp No, HTML/CSS/JS
 
user1593881
@Griwes Your cppcon speech is racking some serious views on Youtube. All 927 of them.
 
> speech
 
@Griwes This guy...
 
user1593881
9:31 AM
And that C++ in Colleges Panel... Epic.
 
nwp
@VermillionAzure I don't think HTML/CSS/JS is a good way to make a GUI, way too complicated. But I could imagine that websites will generally replace applications and that you will have no choice.
 
@nwp Exactly
@RawN Okay, back up.
@RawN Who are you?
@RawN You literally come in here and start insulting a CPPCon talk for no obvious stated reason
@RawN And you then you attack Griwes, who has done more talks than you
@RawN Or, at least, I'm assuming so, because you haven't said anything
@RawN If you're going to bash somebody, at least be nice or have some serious credentials
 
Ah yes, typical, ridicule me senselessly, with no actual arguments to be seen anywhere, for being active at a conference, after telling me I need to go out more.
Projecting much?
 
user1593881
@VermillionAzure I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Ven
boooring
 
9:34 AM
@RawN Neither do I. All I see is your bashing.
 
user1593881
@nwp I agree with everything you said. It should have been you instead of that guy in the QT video.
 
nwp
10 mins ago, by nwp
I do agree with the video though, I would be very happy if Qt and C++ came closer together.
 
@nwp Is there an alternative, though?
 
user1593881
@Griwes The point I am trying to put across to you is that formal education does not and should not hold any monopoly on teaching computer science and especially the c++ paradigm.
 
I wish there was something good for describing graphics and interfaces and having a nice system to handle ids for everything, etc
@RawN ...i didn't get that vibe at all...
 
Sam
9:40 AM
@nwp kind of copperspice?
 
@RawN wut
To have a point, you have to have arguments.
You're just spewing random nonsense that has no backing in any sort of arguments.
 
nwp
@VermillionAzure Sure, you can make pretty good GUIs in Qt very easily. Also emscripten supports Qt, so, my hope is that anyone can use any framework in any language and it just gets compiled into HTML/CSS/JS.
 
user1593881
@Griwes That's no way to have a debate.
 
@RawN Exactly - you're not conducting a debate, you're just asserting things, demanding we downvote things, and using ad hominem to make me look bad in comparison.
Hence, I'm not even attempting to conduct a debate. vOv
 
user1593881
@Griwes I do not. Sheeesh. Get over it. Upvote the video if you like.
 
nwp
9:44 AM
@Sam Possibly, I have to look into it more. I remember being excited about it when I saw this video but then I disagreed with everything they said and lost sight of it. I should give it another chance.
 
@RawN I don't give a rat's ass about the video.
 
user1593881
@Griwes I feel the same about formal education and it's inability to teach proper c++.
 
@RawN So what's your alternative?
@Griwes Also hey is there a similar IDE to MSVS?
 
Sam
same thing happened with me
I am looking forward for nana... don't know how good it is...
 
user1593881
@VermillionAzure C++ Builder.
 
9:50 AM
@RawN I have no idea what you're rambling about.
 
@Telkitty hehe, there's another famous thing like that
gimme a sec
 
user1804599
/r/nottheonion: Turkish minister calls NL a second-class democracy.
 
my memory is not very good because I first saw it ages ago
The Wonderland murders, also known as the Four on the Floor Murders or the Laurel Canyon Murders, are four unsolved murders that occurred in Los Angeles on July 1, 1981. It is assumed that six people were targeted to be killed in the known drug house of the Wonderland Gang, five of whom were present. Four of those five, Billy DeVerell, Ron Launius, Joy Miller, and Barbara Richardson, died from extensive blunt-force trauma injuries. Only Ron Launius' wife, Susan Launius, survived the attack, allegedly masterminded by organized crime figure and nightclub owner Eddie Nash. He, his henchman Gregory...
I think it's this one
but I could've sworn the name was because of the street
not because of the gang
 
user1593881
@VermillionAzure But that tool is dying out as is the entire Windows only ISV paradigm.
 
.. $26 million is not enough to shut her up
 
true facts about the Concorde chris-lamb.co.uk/posts/concorde
> The white colour scheme was specified to reduce the outer temperature by about 10°C.
In a promotional deal with Pepsi, F-BTSD was temporarily painted blue. Due to the change of colour, Air France were advised to remain at Mach 2 for no more than 20 minutes at a time.
dammit Pepsi!
 
10:12 AM
@RawN uhhh
what
On the other hand
Does anybody know of a scripting language that can also be compiled to work with a C++ ABI?
 
user1593881
What's a C++ ABI?
 
It's an ABI that's used by a C++ implementation.
 
^
 
@VermillionAzure C++
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Meh I want a more simple scripting language that can also be compiled...
e.g. Lua but more structured but also still light
 
10:23 AM
And makes sandwiches.
 
@VermillionAzure C
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Right? You get it. This guy understands me :)
 
Ven
@sehe do you remember what was Herb Sutter's talk on its GC'd ptr?
 
@VermillionAzure blah blah blah define scripting language blah blah blah
 
@thecoshman I want an interpreted language that can also be compiled down to machine code with static, strong typing
 
Ven
10:37 AM
@VermillionAzure use nim (:
use common lisp!
 
@Ven You see, I was thinking of using Guile or something similar as well...
Maybe Gambit
 
@Ven nope. Haven't seen it
 
@Ven I've heard about Nim but I don't want to jump in because it's too new
 
@Ven the deferred heap talk? youtube.com/watch?v=JfmTagWcqoE
 
@VermillionAzure "interpreted language" and "compiled language" are pointless terms. Any language could be compiled to machine code or run in a VM; they may not have compilers/VMs for it, but that doesn't mean they couldn't
¬_¬ well not 'pointless'
 
10:46 AM
@thecoshman Yes, but some languages are amenable to interpretation
 
just not a good way to describe a language
 
e.g. Let's interpret C++...
@thecoshman Certainly we can compile JavaScript with complete type safety, yes? No need for dynamic type checking anywhere!!!
 
AFAIK compilation doesn't require that the language has strong static typing
 
@thecoshman certainly is nice though
 
10:48 AM
@thecoshman your president is pretty passionate
 
But regardless... I dunno I'm tempted to try and make my own already lol
 
it helps if there is strong static typing to reduce runtime overhead from type checking/conversion
@VermillionAzure or start interpreting C
 
@ratchetfreak Because I totally LOVE segfaults in my scripts
*(NULL) yes please.
 
well bounds-checked C then ;)
 
@VermillionAzure what's wrong with existing languages and VMs?
@AlexM. lol, so he is
 
10:50 AM
@thecoshman I want something very light for something like mobile
 
He's also so of related to me :D
 
e.g. Something like Lua is okay but something like Python with its million and 1 libraries and such maybe not
 
with the extension that there is no pointer just a memory slice (aka struct{void*;size_t;})
 
And Boost::Python is sort of hard and heavy to compile and such
 
@VermillionAzure precompiling scripts might be a good idea
 
10:51 AM
@thecoshman Exactly my logic here.
While I know LuaJIT is a possibly good choice it may and will become outdated
 
@VermillionAzure the lib support is like the only thing I like about Python :P
 
@thecoshman I think that Python's too heavy and unsafe for a compiled language.
 
@VermillionAzure someone here works on a Lua VM for C++... I think rapptz started it and some else took it over
 
They have to either hack it up with something like Cython or go the dynamic JIT route
@thecoshman Yes, but it's not a compiler, just a C++ binding
I've used Sol and I've done a little bit with it. It's not going to do type checking at the scripting level for me.
 
/path/to/file.h:52:1: error: version control conflict marker in file
<<<<<<< HEAD
^
1 error generated.
This is cool.
 
10:52 AM
I'm thinking: LLVM
 
but it's fairly efficient I think...
 
@thecoshman Yes, but I want the type checking
 
new language based on Lua?
@AlexM. That ending
 
ikr
 
@VermillionAzure GCC has the feature
 
10:58 AM
@Morwenn But I think the tooling is a bit behind
Also, MSVS has Clang support :)
 

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