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7:09 PM
til my gf is starting learning c++ next year at school surrounded by stupid people
she has some experience, so it shouldn't be too bad for her
but i can't imagine all those poor people trying to learn c++, when they cried (literally) at scratch
yes, the fucking kitten bullshit
 
oh yeah the thing where you literally put blocks together right?
 
I don't know what to say. There is no difference. Like I told you several times. I don't care what you choose to believe. Good luck. (bonus) — sehe 5 secs ago
Fuck that.
 
Hello guys. Can I ask an opiniated question?
 
@Morwenn aw
 
@jaggedSpire yes, that shit
 
7:20 PM
@EnnMichael You can try. No guarantees as to the response
 
Ok thanks. Anyways.
 
@ChemiCalChems Just link it. scratch.mit.edu
 
So how do you guys feel about auto ina member or nonmember function signature?
 
Aw thanks lounge. I feel better now
 
I've seen Scott Meyers write functions that return auto. Do you think this is bad?
 
7:21 PM
@EnnMichael It's useful some times.
@EnnMichael Nope. It's bad if it obscures the return type for the reader. It's awesome if the return type intricately depends on the arguments, or you return a lambda type.
 
See what bugs me is - i never know if I can call the function. I forward declare it, but I don't know if it has yet been defined, so my compiler complains.
 
Examples please.
 
Cuz it can't tell what the return type is. Ok 1 sec
 
So, don't do that then :)
 
Like for example: I have a header file. And I do: auto SomeFunction( auto* ) noexcept;
And I call the function somwhere else where I include this header
 
7:24 PM
I'd personally never forward-declare and trailing-return.
@EnnMichael Code talks
 
But I don't realise that it is yet to be defined.
 
user1804599
Hi
 
Okay. Thanks. I like to hear the opinions of more experienced people, it helps me.
 
@EnnMichael I don't think that's valid code in any C++ language version
(specifically, the argument type)
 
Yeah it doesn't work, the compiler complains.
 
7:25 PM
@EnnMichael why not template?
 
Ikr
I do prefer templates.
They're more explicit.
 
@EnnMichael they are required for that sort of syntax, i'd say
 
Like I told you, there is a big difference between copy-pasting a file into the code and loading a file to the program at runtime. Your code is correct? Yes. Does it work as I want? No. Why? because instead of loading the file with ifstream it's a simple copy-paste of the contents into a variable. — deuseux12 2 mins ago
WAT
I have come to the conclusion you must be blind. — sehe 22 secs ago
 
user1804599
ANF is so nice
 
user1804599
I am so happy
 
user1804599
7:26 PM
btw @sehe sketboarding is fun!
 
user1804599
I did it!
 
@ChemiCalChems If you want return type deduction, you need to have auto as return type. You can't do it with templates.
But you can have auto parameters
 
@rightfold I think that has been established since ~ 1980
 
Templates arent necessary
 
user1804599
7:27 PM
@sehe administrative Normal form
 
@EnnMichael What language version supports auto params (outside lambdas)?
@rightfold hehe
 
C++11?
 
@EnnMichael i'd think you could template for the args and the auto output
template <typename T>
auto foo (T* lol);
that should work
 
I mean I use c++11 g++ and auto params work for me...
@ChemiCalChems Yes.
Thats better than auto params. I was just saying - auto params do exist.
 
@EnnMichael Nope. It doesn't. Not even in lambdas (because it doesn't have polymorphic lambdas)
 
7:29 PM
Wait, I'll test it right now.
 
@EnnMichael Show us. See coliru.stacked-crooked.com
5 mins ago, by sehe
@EnnMichael Code talks
 
@EnnMichael auto params are only valid in c++14 lambdas
 
It's a GNU extension
of course it's not standard functionality
 
Erm. Really. How come we didn't know (also, that contradicts the claimed "I use c++11 g++ and auto params work for me..."
 
Sorry.
Yeah auto works only in c++14
as a param. my bad
 
7:31 PM
Even then, I'm pretty surprised. SHOW US?
 
I literally just wrote an example function in my main void f( auto ) {};
int main( ) { }
And everything compiled well in c++14
 
 
Hmm
No complanations in g++
 
@milleniumbug That's pretty cool
 
7:33 PM
Note the -pedantic switch
 
@EnnMichael It is g++ :)
 
Yeah I had warnings off
 
Thanks @milleniumbug
 
Okay I'm retarded
XD
But it's completely valid
It does work, it only issues a warning.
 
certain types of UB also result in compiler warnings
this doesn't make them work
@EnnMichael Plus, according to C++ standard, the compiler is supposed to issue a diagnostic on invalid code.
The diagnostic was issued, so their job is finished
 
7:38 PM
Nvm
All is good
 
The fact it also produced an executable isn't relevant
@EnnMichael In order to share a link you need to click a "Share" button
 
You're completely right.
I actually didn't mean to post that...
Anyway thanks for the discussion. See you guys some other time
Oh yeah and btw do you think this would be better ( more explicit? ) if it was a void function, or it doesn't matter? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/ff569aa069733b01
 
fuck
I want to watch Robot Wars but it is not up yet on iPlayer
 
7:59 PM
@Puppy Huh. Did you sell your sould that quick
 
there's soul selling involved?
 
iPlayer sounds like the Apple thing. You know. The Lord warned us about eating from the Apple?
 
BBC lets me watch for free so I object less
 
Why @ Morwenn
 
8:08 PM
did someone say soul selling? :3
 
She posted the link to the gif and that's my favourite version
 
I think I want KSP
it's super expensive
 
it's very good
 
time to try the demo
ok I see a few buildings
i am in the building thing
 
@Aaron3468 ah
 
8:23 PM
@sehe lol
@sehe Well, that was patently stupid to get out of the car. :)
 
ok i built a rocket thing
what now
wow it's super laggy
how do I launch
ok im flying
im running out of fuel
mmmkay ive detached the power section
I think I've reached space
um
I think I'm not far enough to leave
 
@wilx It's scary how quickly the tiger pulls her to her feet and drags her away
 
vertical velocity is getting smaller
fuck I'm falling
 
this person thinks you shouldnt cast at all. casting is dangerous. you are 99% Wrong if you use it
 
@Aaron3468 Yeah. But not surprising. Tigers can weight over 300 kg. Even a grown up man won't have that much problem picking up 45 kg Asian woman, let alone 300 kg killing machine like a tiger. :)
 
8:37 PM
well okay
I got to like 80km
@Puppy it's super fucking laggy though
 
only if you make the rocket out of like 100 girders ;p
 
@Aaron3468 to her feet?
 
k lowering terrain detail helped
@Puppy is campaign fun?
 
Well, I guess it depends on the subspecies of the tiger. Some of them are smaller.
 
Well, there's a misquoted figure of speech. I should have said 'off her feet'
 
8:39 PM
yeah
 
ok if campaign is good then I might want it
sandbox looks meh
mb because i havent played enough
 
I think the sandbox is a little meh
a flat-out career is great though
 
Ven
in The Nineteenth Byte on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 29 secs ago, by TùxCräftîñg
@quartata yeah, everyone use "use strict" but static typed js is a abberation
 
eh my cm cash still didn't arrive
the game interface is supper annoying though
 
8:58 PM
@Aaron3468 It's not a figure of speech, it's not quoted (hence not misquoted). But yeah, off her feet makes a bit of sense :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz It takes a little getting used to. I would recommend also downloading MechJeb; I think the game is unplayable without it.
 
@Puppy you just don't understand usability
 
@sehe I think that if I could refrain combining prepositions and verbs, I would be less prone to such errors. It's quite difficult though because the prepositions convey direction and motion.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm fundamentally agreeing with your point that the interface could be more usable.
 
anyway I'm gonna wait until my cash arrives on paypal
 
9:07 PM
although unlike the 3D printer, you're actually expressing a complicated intent in the first place
 
and play, dunno, maybe FTL
 
also
it says here that the Demo is 0.18.3, which is more than three and a half years of development old.
hmm, some of the other people report newer demo builds
 
@StackedCrooked ehh, the latest RE:Zero is kinda bad... they're tangling more than they should be at this point :( /cc @Xeo @Mysticial
 
Xeo
Still waiting for the whole anime to finish before I watch it...
 
also for the record, I think the game's interface limitations without MechJeb are terrible.
 
9:10 PM
aah, ok
 
Man, I need to remember to use name+tag@some.host email format more often.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I'm 3 eps behind on Re Zero. So I'm good. :)
 
Ven
@ScarletAmaranth i defintely consider this kind of stuff "spoiler"
spoiling the mood.
 
lol :)
 
Ven
no, really. i had the tab open to watch it, but I closed it because I know that if I watch it now, I'll find it bad no matter what
 
9:24 PM
@Aaron3468 words convey meaning. More at 10
 
10:09 PM
Guys is Operator Overloading a hard topic?
 
Ell
No
 
can we create like a new operator like lets say ^/ (This may be the most stupidest question. if so please escuse me)
 
@user5600875 Nope. C++ is not Haskell.
 
@wilx Not saying this is a good idea, but I wonder if a macro trick would do it.
 
@Mysticial With a different preprocessor, sure. :)
 
10:20 PM
In practice, custom operators can make syntax very messy and difficult to understand.
But like any language feature they can be used to good effect as much as they can be abused
 
Ven
Two messages and you said practically nothing
Congrats.
It's hard to carry so little meaning in so many words
 
 
Okay, that's strange... I'm getting the correct value for the size of an array, but when I use the exact same value to iterate the elements, it only iterates the first two
 
11:00 PM
Actually, this one is better version of the same talk.
 
11:19 PM
Well, now I figured out why iteration seemed bipolar. Apparently C doesn't preserve type when it passes to functions. stackoverflow.com/questions/9413046/…
 
user406009
@Aaron3468 Yeah. One of the many footguns of C.
 
user406009
@Aaron3468 You can actually preserve the type/length if you use a C++ template.
 
user406009
@ScarletAmaranth My main issue with Re Zero is that the protagonist seems so clueless.
 
user406009
And there is too much focus on slice of life.
 
Yeah.. generally, I expect the computer to take what I say literally, rather than pretend that my instructions are mutable and open for creative interpretation (especially regarding typing!)...
 
11:23 PM
@Aaron3468 it works the same in C++ btw (by which I mean it doesn’t)
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz I had to stop watching. The stupidity was just too much.
 
Yep. And of course, since it's such a common footgun it isn't documented clearly and the compilers don't generally warn you; it's expected that programmers already know.
 
user406009
@Aaron3468 I think they should have just banned the char[] type (and related similar forms).
 
user406009
That would have made things a lot more clear.
 
I've heard a term for it, too. 'broken stair': something that is broken, but which doesn't get fixed because everybody who uses it is aware of it.
 
11:27 PM
@Aaron3468 they do
well the C++ ones do, I haven’t C’d in a while
 
You need to explicitly set the strict compilation flags in order to get those warnings. It appears that the toolchain I'm using doesn't have all of the strict flags set.
 
yes, compilers only warn if you ask them to warn
 
I've set it to warn me now, but it appears the compiler for AVR doesn't have that warning... On the other hand it's happy to warn me that I'm using binary constants
Anyway, I'll learn as I go. It's reassuring at least that I can debug things like that
For now I'll rely on coliru to help hunt them because it was the compiler+flags that tipped me off to what was happening and I can rely on it to be set consistently
 
user406009
@Aaron3468 Is your AVR compiler gcc based?
 
11:43 PM
Yeah, that's why I find it strange how non-compliant it is. Atmel really gutted and modified gcc, as well as using macros all over the place
For example, there are many silly things like this, or not being able to pass registers as types
 
Luc when are you joining Discord
I miss you bud
;-;
 
@Rapptz you know where to find me
 
where
 

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