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6:06 PM
@Borgleader Err, he's just saying the next generation will have better physics engines.
And that current and past generations have mostly focused on graphics.
And you know, there's this weird thing in games were the technical aspect that gets the most focus is graphics. And then physics, then audio, then AI, etc.
Actually you're lucky if you even have a decent audio pipeline.
It's like nobody gives a shit about anything but graphics.
 
user1804599
This is so hilarious.
 
@EtiennedeMartel He's undoubtedly right, but it strikes me as probably being relevant to relatively few games. He talks about things not having changed much since the Dreamcast, but seems to miss a simple fact: hardware capabilities are obviously a lot better now; the reason little changed is that for most games it just doesn't matter much.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Right, so 2x captain obvious. The reason I'm saying is bullshit is not because im saying hes wrong, its because its clickbait. "PlayStation 5 will let developers build 'far more dynamic, interactive worlds'" sounds like new information on PS5, but really its just some random guy saying lets be honest obvious things like "hey next tech will be better than current tech" well i sure as hell fucking hope so
 
@JerryCoffin There's a lot of focus on "fidelity" in games, but it's mostly just graphical fidelity. So you get beautiful static worlds, eternally frozen in time.
 
6:13 PM
Also hmmm This is a real paradigm shift because it's about simulating physics at a molecular level. What?
molecular level?
 
@Borgleader If its work like any actual news outlet, the author is not responsible for the title. The editor is.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Right, but the contents of the article are hardly better, I mean, again its all very obvious stuff and pipe dreams.
There was one line of useful information and it was the game,s release date
 
@Borgleader So? Asking people what they think the future will be is done all the time.
Judge the article on what it tries to be, not on what you want it to be.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Sure. The other side of it is that lots of games don't do even simple things very well (even with regard to graphics) not to mention anything like simulating behavior at the molecular level--and doing them better doesn't necessarily make the game a whole lot better either.
 
user406009
@Borgleader perhaps they mean more realistic friction from materials?
 
6:23 PM
@EtiennedeMartel What does it try to be?
 
@Borgleader An interview with a guy who would really like it if physics engine didn't suck.
 
@Lalaland i just dont know
 
@Borgleader I think we can speculate a little based on the background given. He talks about a golf simulator. My guess from that would be something that attempts to actually simulate how a real golf club works. Right now, I'm pretty sure most probably just basically do a fairly linear translation from "he swung it X hard" to "the ball flew Y distance". You could, instead, simulate the flexing of the shaft of the golf club and such, to more accurately portray the results of a specific swing.
 
I just realized that overloading can only work because of the runtime system.
 
That said, it seems to me that the bigger problem here is with the game controller than the physics engine. The Wii's controllers let you do a little more than a normal controller, but unless you actually give the player something similar to a real golf club to swing, it's hard for them to have any feel for how it works in reality either.
 
6:30 PM
Huh.
 
user406009
I still don't buy that "more realistic physics = more fun".
 
@Lalaland s/realistic/ridiculous/ FTFY
Nothing satisfies the soul like ragdolls and seasaws.
 
@JerryCoffin He could mean that but ultimately i dont know if doing that simulation would have any discernable change in game over a simpler approximation like an offset of some sort based on the "material" of the golf club's shaft or something
 
user406009
@Borgleader One argument is that the people are capable of picking up small discrepancies. Stuff like the uncanny valley come into mind.
 
user406009
Also, all the investment in realistic lighting.
 
6:33 PM
@Borgleader But getting a 400 GB SSD would be the hards.
Granted I would only need... 265 GB?
For VS, all games/apps, etc.
Music, videos, etc. is on secondary drive.
 
@Borgleader I'm not really sure it would either. Even if we assume a discernible effect, I doubt it's the controlling factor (or necessarily even a major factor) in whether the game is enjoyable. Ultimately, it's likely to depend on the nature of the game--if the game was "golf club designer", doing good simulations of club designs might mean a lot. If it's playing golf, not so much.
 
user406009
For instance, realistic reflections don't really add that much in game play, but people want them regardless for immersion purposes.
 
~~immersion~~
 
Continuation of the iGiveHead saga.
I am apparently an arsehole. I gladly accept that.
Fucking SJWs.
 
user1804599
Plonk SJWs and lock their GitHub issues.
 
6:47 PM
W h o a
This code actually works in VC++.
 
working on unicode has made me learn some interesting stuff
 
Mm.
That reminds me, I need to reject an "overlong sequence" in UTF8.
 
guess what this is ---> ;
 
@Lalaland I'm not sure most people really care about realistic as much as just "not jarringly unrealistic". For comparison, photographers have found that most people looking at a pictures and asked to choose the most realistic looking one will usually choose pictures that show much higher saturation (i.e., are much more colorful looking) than is really accurate.
 
@KhaledKhnifer a Greek question mark
 
6:52 PM
@LucDanton exactly
 
user406009
@KhaledKhnifer A semicolon.
 
user406009
The most useless piece of punctuation ever invented.
 
@Lalaland you misspelled greatest
 
user406009
(Well, at least in English.)
 
6:53 PM
thanks to semicolons i can ramble on forever and be grammatically correct; your argument is invalid; i had breakfast for lunch today
 
user406009
Yeah, or you could just use periods like a normal person.
 
Go's code of conduct and their "microaggresions" bullshit
 
@milleniumbug i realize it's a word with a lot of baggage, but how is this line bad:
Avoid destructive behavior:
[...]
Microaggressions: brief and commonplace verbal, behavioral and environmental indignities that communicate hostile, derogatory or negative slights and insults to a person or group.
The microaggression "bullshit" is a world in which too many things are interpreted to be a microaggression
So this line really kind of boils down to "don't be an asshole, even just a little bit"
 
Thing is ready Windy
 
Some of those "Code of Conduct" misbehavior examples make me chuckle a bit.
 
user406009
6:59 PM
@ThePhD Some of them remind me a bit of the Lounge.
 
@Lalaland The way they end is what makes me chuckle.
"The issue is resolved" I wish.
 
user406009
@milleniumbug Have you read their microaggression "example"?
 
user406009
Their example seems quite reasonable behavior to ban.
 
Funnily enough, in their CoC, there's no bans or kicks handed out.
FOr the examples, anyhow.
Everyone just realizes their mistakes immediately and gets along nicely.
I guess it's an example of ideal behavior, though.
 
@milleniumbug lol, one more reason not to use the language.
 
user1804599
 
kek
Well done, rigidfold
 
user406009
@milleniumbug I mean, there are bad examples of real abuse of these sort of things, like archive.is/dgilk.
 
@Lalaland yeah that one is pure terribleness
 
thank gays for ruining rainbows for everyone
:D
 
7:06 PM
Well, technically, gay rainbows have six colours in them, and straight ones have 7
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Only because one guy liked the number 7.
 
Ell
Lol
 
I mean, where's the cutoff point between "blue", "indigo" and "violet"?
Indigo could have been merge with either of the other ones and we'd have 6 color rainbows.
 
Ell
I think if I was to make a super bowl advert promoting a sexuality I'd promote heterosexuality
 
user1804599
Funny how people aren't offended by the name of Git.
 
7:07 PM
@EtiennedeMartel lol? I'm not even sure if I laugh
 
Ell
Surely that will earn me the most money
 
@EtiennedeMartel I have to agree. It would have been much better (and more heterosexual) if Beyonce had had a "wardrobe malfunction". Oh...rainbow? Seriously? Somebody gave a shit about that? What's wrong with these idiots?
 
@JerryCoffin Theyre idiots, obv :P
 
@JerryCoffin The outrage culture, again. You can't even talk about gays without people being offended.
 
user1804599
Which license is the most like BSD but with share-alike requirement for derived works?
 
7:08 PM
@MadameElyse when are you switching to mercurial?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Lmao.
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug Not until Mercurial becomes better than Git.
 
> Newton, who admitted his eyes were not very critical in distinguishing colours, originally (1672) divided the spectrum into five main colours: red, yellow, green, blue and violet. Later he included orange and indigo, giving seven main colours by analogy to the number of notes in a musical scale.
So it's arbitrary.
 
@JerryCoffin Nothing wrong with those idiots. They are well functioning idiots, doing what idiots do.
 
> Newton chose to divide the visible spectrum into seven colours out of a belief derived from the beliefs of the ancient Greek sophists, who thought there was a connection between the colours, the musical notes, the known objects in the Solar System, and the days of the week.
 
user406009
7:09 PM
@JerryCoffin Don't worry, people went frame by frame to find another Beyonce image
 
user406009
 
user1804599
 
user406009
@MadameElyse GPL?
 
user406009
Or maybe LGPL.
 
user1804599
I think I'll use AGPL.
 
7:11 PM
@EtiennedeMartel One physics professor also told me that it had a lot to do with 7 being the number of perfection in Christianity. No citations though.
 
user1804599
The software has a significant web component.
 
@VillasV Basically, nobody knows.
 
user406009
@MadameElyse But why do you care about commercial forks?
 
user406009
IMHO, too many things are licensed as GPL or (GPL derivatives).
 
GPL can eat a dick
 
user406009
7:14 PM
I mean, GPL makes total sense if you are a commercial company or doing something for money.
 
@Lalaland Wouldn't in that case be better to use Apache for trademark?
 
user406009
@VillasV Apache allows closed source forks.
 
user1804599
Do you put license info in each source file?
 
@Lalaland Hmm, I guess I'd worry more about stealing the patent than secretly improving the software without telling me. The latter does not cause me harm. I'm not a company tho
 
@MadameElyse Most people do.
 
user1804599
7:18 PM
@Lalaland GPL does too, as long as you don't distribute it.
 
@ThePhD ugh
 
user1804599
AGPL counts network use as distribution, which is nice.
 
user406009
Yeah, but why do you care about closed source forks?
 
@melak47 I haven't yet. I've been thinking about it, but I kind've don't wantto.
 
user1804599
@Lalaland I don't.
 
user406009
7:19 PM
Companies obviously care because they need people on their version in order to charge for support/whatever.
 
user1804599
I care about distributed forks. And they cannot be closed, because that's not allowed by the license.
 
@ThePhD I wouldn't, unless it's a single file with different license because I stole it from someone else :p
 
user406009
(Also, GPL allows them to charge more for a commercial license)
 
user406009
@MadameElyse But why?
 
user1804599
Idealism.
 
user406009
7:20 PM
Eh, I have to admit that is a valid reason.
 
@Lalaland FOOL!
 
Do aligned loads on AMD64 have acquire and/or release semantics?
 
/cc @Mysticial ^
Does anyone know if it's possible to make a switch out of a variadic?
 
switch (pack && ...) :p
 
Does somebody know a polygon buffering library where I can assign userdata to the vertices of the polygon?
 
7:24 PM
... Sooo a function call.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not sure if rainbows promote homosexuality... or if young manly men wrestling other young manly men do...
 
gr8.
 
@NaCl buffering?
 
Yeah, inflation/deflation of a polygon
 
no idea what that means. have you looked at boost.graph? :D
 
7:26 PM
My Automineer trial has expired :(
How do you guys do you comments?
 
what
 
@melak47 No, that is not applicable. But Boost.Geometry would be if it would support it already, currently it can only resize rectangles :(
 
@NaCl oh, guess I was thinking of that
 
User data? using zlib compression?
 
wait what
 
7:28 PM
What? No, I just... wtf is going on now
 
@ThePhD you want a switch (runtime_value) { case pack...: ...?!?!? }?
 
@VictorLopez No like, I think he wants to do grow/shrink a polygon but where vertices can have extra data (color, weight, anything else)
 
user3790646
Welps, the girl I love broke up with me
 
user3790646
:o
 
@Borgleader Yes, like, you can store your data as base64 by sorting your integers/longs by bitwise.
 
7:29 PM
@NaCl Patch it, submit it :)
@VictorLopez What
 
user1804599
for file in {cli,lib}/**/*.hs; do
    if ! grep 'Copyright (C) 2016 BLABLA contributors' "$file" > /dev/null; then
        echo "$file is missing copyright notice"
    fi
    if ! grep 'If not, see <http://www\.gnu\.org/licenses/>\.' "$file" > /dev/null; then
        echo "$file is missing AGPL notice"
    fi
done
 
user1804599
:3
 
@VictorLopez lol
 
https://github.com/bjorn/tiled/blob/78c273ceb870fece51473229f865350605992ebc/src/libtiled/gidmapper.cpp

I'm trying to implement this, line 142.
 
@NaCl What algo are you looking for? Should the edges expand along their normal, away from the center, ... ?
 
7:32 PM
Take, for example, Clipper. It does allow you to pass some userdata to it's "IntPoint" struct, however, it doesn't allow this for ClipperOffset, which is used to offset a polygon. I have no idea why it doesn't allow userdata here but does for the Clipper class
@Borgleader Actually towards the center
 
here is the compression, line 123.
 
The polygons may have holes and may be concave... :(
 
@NaCl Same diff, its just in the other directions
 
yup
 
Later on you only get the data from parsing a vector.
The samples of the tool we're working with right now have a TMX map file of about 1.35 megabytes, compressed with zlib, and as a raw xml it is about ~230 megabytes. It is upon how will you store the data or how will it consume how much memory.
 
7:36 PM
@melak47 Yes, like a not-pleb language would accomodate.
Also, hello from Advanced Computer Graphics.
People are supposed to be presenting rendering papers today.
 
The cast interpretation could be stored into some shared_ptr or custom allocated pointer, later on passed to the item/object/parser in question. As for memory allocations we have to take in consideration that the parent or sender / whoever sends the data doesn't get destroyed while the data is being used.
 
hey guys! I was wondering if there's a list of default operator behaviors in C++ floating somewhere online - specifically for < and >. Do you guys happen to have it by any chance? :)
(and yes I have googled, but I'm not exactly sure what keywords to search for. "Default operator behaviors C++" doesn't seem to help)
 
As for raw structures if the data is being sent to single objects you can send to the object by allocating and letting the object to free the memory, if it is non-shared data, if it is shared data the thing gets a bit more complex.
 
@ThePhD send me all the things :)
even your homework (i won't do it for you ofc)
 
Why do you even need to send data?, isn't it there a dispatcher/consumer mechanism out there?
 
7:44 PM
@OneRaynyDay Get a recent draft of the standard, and reach through section 5.
 
Some older but pretty interesting article: Acquire and Release Fences
 
events, sort of that, there is a lib for events
 
user1804599
Thanks rms
 
@JerryCoffin Ah, I didn't know this exists, let me check it out :)
 
@MadameElyse Why?
 
user1804599
7:47 PM
For popularising FOSS
 
user1804599
FOSS is great
 
@JerryCoffin Found it - here's the little tidbit about it: "operator < > shall have arithmetic, enumeration, or pointer type"
 
@OneRaynyDay For what it's worth, a (reasonably?) current draft: open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/n4567.pdf
 
I see, so it has to be a "primitive", a pointer, or an enum... I didn't know enums existed in c++ :o are those structs?
And yep, found that one exactly :)
 
so I guess no one knows one
 
7:50 PM
@MadameElyse IMO, he's done far to more hinder than help the cause. Open source software has been around since forever, and most of what popularized it was the Internet, which simply made it a lot easier for people to get.
 
@OneRaynyDay No, enum types are scalar
 
@OneRaynyDay Search for "[dcl.enum]" in the same document (there are a few variations, each with unique semantics).
 
@Borgleader I had a derp. The Professor sent out a message on Sunday saying we needed to not only read the paper, but also write up a "Paper Summary" that was due... well, today. I haven't written the summary, and it was supposed to be due before class, so I already feel like crap. =/
I'm starting to agree with Elim that this teacher might be kind've a huge asshole.
 
@NaCl what data are you handling and how are you expecting it to be re-created?
 
Sorry?
A polygon, then a resized polygon with not necesarily the same point count as the normal sized one
...but with userdata you can freely specify as user.
 
8:04 PM
What's the purpose? After the resize, or before the resize, both polygons will shrink, I'm getting it.
What userdata can you specify? void*?
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin he has popularised free software though
well, there wouldn't be free software without him
 
An integer would suffice, I need to keep the points in a specific order
 
Wrap it, if you're working with sequential structures then wrap it,
class polygon{
public:
std::vector<IntPoint> _int_points;
}
after the resize or other operation you can have a defined class of things you want to operate with.
 
user1804599
I love FOSS
 
blurgh I feel like crap
 
8:10 PM
Sadly, thats not possible
 
user1804599
yummy krupuk
 
@ThePhD :(
 
Xeo
Fun. SFML's "borderless" mode flickers when you tab in and out. sigh
 
Do you guys agree on this?
53
A: Where to put include statements, header or source?

schotOnly put includes in a header if the header itself needs them. Examples: Your function returns type size_t. Then #include <stddef.h> in the header file. Your function uses strlen. Then #include <string.h> in the source file.

 
user1804599
I include things in the file I use them.
 
user1804599
8:16 PM
If I use std::size_t in both the header and source files, I include cstdlib in both.
 
A colleague of mine recently defended the opinion that source files should only contain the #include of its respective header.
That's a nice standard indeed, but IDE's frequently complain of unused headers if you put them in the header file and don't use them explicitly (of course they would)
 
read the answer below
10
A: Where to put include statements, header or source?

Jerry CoffinThere's been quite a bit of disagreement about this over the years. At one time, it was traditional that a header only declare what was in whatever module it was related to, so many headers had specific requirements that you #include a certain set of headers (in a specific order). Some extremely ...

 
I usually write the class declarations over the header and later include the structures inside the source.
 
@TonyTheLion It reads "The instant invite is invalid or has expired." Might want to fix that link.
 
Xeo
8:24 PM
Oh. SFML only flickers when you set the window resolution to exactly desktop resolution. meeeeh
+/- 1 pixel stops the flickering
this is stupid
 
@Xeo no flickering for me
 
Xeo
sf::RenderWindow window(sf::VideoMode::getDesktopMode(), "SFML Test", sf::Style::None);
needs None style (borderless)
 
@MadameElyse why not?
 
Can std::sort be used with any instantiated object? Just asking.
 
user1804599
@sehe because of what the first comment says
 
Xeo
8:27 PM
@VictorLopez Pro-tip: Try making sense with your sentences.
 
@VictorLopez concepts are a thing en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/sort
> Type requirements
 
@xeo get your whore ass on that other new thing
 
Xeo
what?
 
@MadameElyse I haven't seen the comments. But it's pretty brutal. People can easily get killed (not to mention are obviously hurt)
 
22 hours ago, by Tony The Lion
@Nooble https://discord.gg/0oF7WvtiGIDwnVMu
 
Xeo
8:31 PM
why?
 
all the cool people are there :p
 
it's a nice chat with a coliru bot
 
Xeo
meh, don't wanna have another chat open
 
lounge<lethargy>
 
@Xeo then close this shithole
 
8:32 PM
lol
 
user1804599
Funfact: most rollercoasters form topological knots.
 
Hello :)
 
Ell
@thecoshman this shithole works at least :O
Discord doesn't scroll for me
> this kills the chat
 
what the hell? why does everyone suck?
@MadameElyse well yeah, they are loops.
 
it randomly breaks, don't know why, but sometimes it breaks even in lounge
 
8:35 PM
@Ell I used to think that exceptions are better, but I'm tempted to say that the idea of a monad for errors reuses the concept of monad without introducing special cases.
 
@Xeo borderless window best window format
 
I really need your help, I found other solutions but nothing I can work with...
I want to convert a string to double: Like "0.00004305" to 0.00004305. The problem is that my solutions all produce something like: 4.305e-05. How can I use something like cout << fixed but to a variable or something? Thank you! :)
 
@Julius You can ask on Stack Overflow
 
@wilx x86 guarantees write ordering.
All native types (except the SIMD vectors) I believe are atomic.
And writes in one core will always be seen in the same order from all other cores.
 
8:39 PM
@Mysticial I see. It is consistent with that I see in small tests using C11 atomic_load(). OK. Thanks.
 
@Ell I disagree on both points. There was free software (and it was pretty popular) before he was involved at all. What he did (exactly how I'm uncertain, other than being vocal) was convince people that something that had been there all along was suddenly his idea. It would be about like if I suddenly claimed (and people believed it) that I'm the real author of, say, the Bible.
 
user1804599
What a fucking racist. He should have known that he wasn't welcome there.
 
@Mysticial rly? so atomic<int> on x86 doesn't have to do anything?
 
@Mysticial If you're sensible, yes. If you allocate a DWORD (for example) so it crosses a cache line boundary, then reads/writes are no longer atomic.
 
Ok guys, forget about the user data. Lets say I've shrinked a polygon with points in order 012345 and now, the smaller polygon, has corresponding points in the order 45012. Is it possible to sort those points somehow without any userdata?
 
user1804599
8:42 PM
@melak47 You cannot deduce that from what Mysticial said.
 
@JerryCoffin Right, I forgot about misalignment.
 
user1804599
Just nothing to guarantee write ordering.
 
@melak47 Depends. It prevents the compiler from doing certain reorderings.
 
user1804599
They will be seen in the same order. Doesn't mean they will be seen at all, or in a timely fashion.
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin was there a license like the GPL before him?
 
8:44 PM
If you write to an std::atomic that specifies sequential consistency (the default), I don't believe the compiler is allowed to reorder anything across the write.
I could be wrong though. Maybe it's too strong of a statement.
 
I'm passing it to a lib which does several copies to its own type
 
user1804599
@Mysticial Sure it is. As-if rule.
 
@Ell At least somewhat like the GPL, yes. When I was in college, for example, the Pascal compiler they used on the mainframe was distributed under a license that said you got source code, and if you wanted to share a modified version, that had to include source code as well.
 
I am going to replace a fan in my PC. Wish me luck so that I do not fuck up the PC.
I hate having to touch it.
6
 
user1804599
{
    int x{};
    ++atomic;
    x = 1; // can be reordered to before the write just fine
}
 
8:47 PM
@wilx At first, touch the heater :)
 
@MadameElyse I guess that's kind of a given. But any reads or writes to memory that has external or unknown scope probably can't be moved across an atomic load/store.
 
@NaCl The what. You mean a grounded radiator...
 
Yes, yes.
 
@Mysticial And likewise, calls to library functions, etc. (i.e., anything that qualifies as an externally visible side effect).
 
Dictionaries seem to be funny these days
 
user1804599
8:48 PM
I contributed to this recently: plasmalang.org
 
user1804599
@Mysticial Do you know much about automatic parallelisation (as in SMP, not SIMD)
 
Automatic parallelism is kind of a lost cause atm. Been that way for almost a decade now.
 
user1804599
How come?
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin well TIL :)
 
I think I solved it
Thank you all
 
Ell
8:54 PM
Still I think RMS' writing of the GPL and encouraging its use is a great achievement
 
@MadameElyse In order to auto-parallelize, the compiler needs to prove independence. And it can only do that for simple loops. But simple loops are either too small to be worth parallelizing, or are memory bound when they get big.
 
user1804599
Aha.
 
hi all
 
Ell
Can't Haskell auto parallelize easily because it can show independence?
 
user1804599
Funfact: the Dutch translation of "wildcard" is "joker".
 
user1804599
8:57 PM
> De volgende jokertekens worden ondersteund:
 
user1804599
Mercury has a & (parallel and) operator that you can use in place of , (and) and it'll parallelise.
 
user1804599
Any dependencies are automatically turned into futures.
 
@MadameElyse Can you cruise it up and down the road, though?
 
9:12 PM
@Ell "Made unattributed used of others' work" is more often the language of an indictment than a commendation, but if you think it's great, so be it. :-)
 
Whee!!
I am back.
I have managed not to fuck up too much.
Typically, on first try, I have mounted the fan in a wrong direction, it was blowing the air into the case instead of out.
 
@MadameElyse Funfact: the Joker card is often used as a random wildcard in games
 
@Mysticial ...at least when you work with a "classic" (shared memory, SMP) architecture. If (on the other hand) you have a machine with not only lots of cores, but also lots of memory controllers, then it becomes mostly a matter of splitting the data correctly across those separately controlled memory banks to make use of a lot more bandwidth.
 
And I was confused for a minute how will I use it if my MB has only 3 pin power sources for fans instead of the 4 pin ones that are on the fan. Fortunately, the small documentation paper bundled with the fan suggested putting it on the same power source as CPU fan, which worked.
 
user1804599
How do you do zero extension in C++?
 
user1804599
9:17 PM
I want to zero-extend widen an integer.
 
@MadameElyse Use an unsigned integer.
 
user1804599
Is that just a widening conversion between unsigned types?
 
user1804599
@Jerry ok
 
@MadameElyse yes.
 
9:28 PM
@Borgleader Sent an e-mail to the Professor about the discussion / summary, hopefully he won't bitchslap me points for posting an assignment YESTERDAY and then demanding it be due just barely 24 hours later. .-.
 
@wilx It's almost as if they included that on purpose
 
@sehe Haha. Sure they did. I said the documentation suggested connecting it that way. :)
 
user1804599
Does signed widening conversion guarantee sign extension?
 
user1804599
Right, of course it does.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm not actually sure that's enough. It'll be pretty hard to get enough bandwidth to sustain something like a vector-vector dot-product across a GB of data.
So you kinda need to find a way to do more work for each byte of memory that's touched.
That's harder for the compiler to figure out.
 
9:37 PM
@Mysticial Of course; ultimately there are always limits. It's mostly a question of how many "chunks" of memory you use, and how big each one is. While it's undoubtedly hard to assure you've hit the ultimate limit, it seems like it should be pretty easy to do quite a bit better than most conventional computers can currently even hope for.
 
user1804599
> goto unsupported_ze;
 
user1804599
yay I used gotos
 
@JerryCoffin I actually do wonder about the memory bandwidth bottleneck. Is it really that hard to cram in more channels and increase it? Or is there simply no demand for it and hence, no market. It's actually quite difficult to saturate bandwidth unless you either vectorize or parallelize. And the majority of applications today can do neither.
 
@Mysticial No, it wouldn't be particularly difficult. A little logic to select the channel based on part of the physical address, and from there a matter of replicating as many channels as you want/need (but a DRAM controller is big enough that you couldn't reasonably have hundreds of them, or anything like that). Seems like kind of a chicken and egg problem: no software to use it, so no call for hardware that has it, so no reason to write software that could use it, ...
From a user's viewpoint, you'd need pretty solid justification as well. Buying 16 little DIMMs instead of, say, 4 big ones, isn't exactly cheap or convenient.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm thinking more on the lines of multiple channels per DIMM. But I guess there's a practical limit to how many lines you can have and how small you can make them before reliability drops and manufacturing costs go up.
On chip memory would of course solve that.
Or maybe not. As you increase your transistor count, you decrease your yields.
I guess that can be fixed by simply disabling the broken memory banks - like they do with bad cores.
 
9:52 PM
more cores yields
 
You'll never make a chip that is fully working. But if at least N of the M cores are working, you can sell it as an N core chip. And if at least N of M GBs of onboard memory are working, you can sell it as N GB.
 
@Mysticial 3968MB DIMMs :D
 
@Mysticial I think it can solve it so some degree, but it's not entirely free either. Nonetheless, really wide buses (for example) on chip are a lot more practical than off chip. And yes, memory chips included extra bank and anti-fuses to substitute one for another long before it was done for cores (long before multi-core chips were common at all).
 
@wilx Omg, my totally innocuous remark has made it to the star board?
 
Ell
@Mysticial so the 8 core xeons or w/e they are are actually 10 core or something?
 
9:57 PM
@JerryCoffin There's also a practical size of the chip itself. As of 2016, you're not fitting 128 GB of memory on a 2cm^2 die.
@Ell Depends on the model, but you're on the right track.
 
@Ell AMD's been known to release 3-cores from bad 4-cores
 
All the Haswell 6 core chips are actually 8 core chips with two cores fused off.
 
user1804599
Haskell 6 core chips
 
The 14 and 16 core Haswell-E chips are actually 18 core chips with cores fused off.
 
@MadameElyse actually made from 8 haskells
 

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