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4:01 PM
How about BSSRDF? Hard to think of acronyms when you're asked to. Shiet.
However, ROVs are a high feature level addition, meaning mostly the newest GCN line and Nvidia's Maxwell architecture is ready to utilize it. Along with conservative rasterization, which is pretty basic right now, only tiers 1 and 2 are in existing hardware.
 
We're almost at real-time ray tracing now anyway
 
Ell
I think my game probably won't need transparency anyway vOv
 
Real-time raytracing is pretty shit, mostly due to the stochastic nature of evaluating stuff, generating noise during sampling. Gathering prefiltered data via some kind of volume tracing is the way to go for realtime, consistent and noiseless. Issue is just the filtering part.
 
It's not pretty shit
We're getting there
 
I cant wait for ray tracing
 
4:08 PM
Mostly just basic raytracing, simulating depth of field, varying material definitions like rough surfaces and semiglossy stuff (basically, reality) destroy realtime raytracing. For every rougher surface, the amount of samples necessary grows vast. Also, did I mention noise?
 
I just want to very simply describe a bunch of geometry and materials and throw it at a renderer
no more transparency hassles or trickery
 
Ell
When I was young I used to thing games were made by generating every possible game state and rendering it
 
meh
I did raytracing on Maxwell and frankly it's really nice
Not quite real time yet
But we're almost there I maintain. Your pessimism will not triumph.
 
Ell
actually I will need transparency.for water maybe
 
You've probably heard of Brigade so I won't link it here
 
Ell
4:10 PM
Meh but probably not because RTS so from high viewpoint
 
Just use UE or Unity
 
Ell
that's boring
 
It's not boring to actually achieve something and play the game
Its only boring if your game I boring
 
Ell
achieving Is never boring
 
@MaiLongdong I wanna try that (GPU raytracing) one day.
 
Ell
4:12 PM
But I dont want to go the unity route
The route is boring
 
user406009
@Ell You could just do 2d.
 
You just said achieving isn't boring
 
user406009
@Ell Much simpler code + assets.
 
Ell
doing it by hand isnt boring either
If I achieve then its a bonus
 
Have you actually tried using that before? UE4/Unity
For Kyrostat? When did you give it up for dead?
 
Ell
4:15 PM
I was never involved with kyrostat, back then it wasn't for linux IIRC
but I have briefly tried unity
 
Kyrostat was for all plats from the beginning
 
Ell
I just like the coding aspect I guess :P
 
Couldn't secure contributors without targetting their platform
 
Ell
Yeah true
 
Besides Wide is cross-platform but its yet to garner me any collaborators so it probably wasn't worth it
 
4:23 PM
@Borgleader I wrote one - with AMP (but AMP seems to be dead as of recent)
 
Ell
@puppy isn't making it cross platform fairly easy?
What windows specific features could you need?
Also people have tested it on linux haven't they? I know I tried but failed
 
There's still a version running on Coliru
Wide doesn't really use any Windows-specific features but it can accidentally use MSVC-specific features
It's still a bitch to work with though because you have to build your own LLVM and Clang
And the Clang maintainers aren't really interested in changing that
 
AMP is the only GPGPU tech I've actually enjoyed using
 
x * (x - 6) = y * (y - 6), implies x = y?
 
-2
Q: You can break Instagram?

user5280169Iwant to get my girlfriend was cheating on Instagram I can ?

 
4:31 PM
So, are you guys going to roll Kyrostat in UE4/Unity? So, I can take some different theme for a hobby game to continue working on?
 
this guy
 
Ahahah
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ how about 6 - x = y (also x = y)
 
I'm sorry, is that a yes?
 
Ell
Is kyrostat actually being revived?
I disnt.know.there was interest
 
4:33 PM
No.
 
I have no idea what's going on right now.
 
not necessarily, there are 2 solutions
 
X can be -Y
 
I checked and yes, she was - with that guy from school. — Benjamin Gruenbaum 37 secs ago
 
y can be 6 - x
X cant be -y
 
4:34 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ no, it does not. Does x^2 = y^2 imply x = y?
 
I see no reason why Kyrostat would be revived.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum so he did research his problem before asking the question
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Nope
But that's not the same thing.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum -x^2 = x^2 :)
 
aha
 
4:35 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Also if y = x - 6, then you would have something really weird
 
user1804599
@BenjaminGruenbaum lol
 
Yes but that -6x makes all the difference
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ It's the same thing. Not every function is onto (f(x) = f(y) does not imply x = y).
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You are claiming that all polynomials of rank 2 would never yield x = y based on the conclusion that x^2 = y^2 doesn't.
 
Is it just me, or does elim garak really remind you of Domagoj?
 
4:37 PM
@Puppy It is me, you fool. :P
 
If you solve { y = x - 6, x = y - 6}, then you have { y = x - 6, x = x - 6 - 6 } which is impossible.
@Puppy It's him
 
Ell
I think it implies +-x = y
 
Well I'm glad I figured that out.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ no, I was giving a similar example, but every polynomial of degree 'n' has 'n' solutions, that's the basic theorem of algebra (over a closed field).
 
user1804599
ok so what to implement next
 
4:37 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, but not every solution is real.
 
@ElimGarak lol, @sehe called you out on your first day, apparently he was right
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ so what? What's wrong with solutions that are not real? Also - in your example even something like (4,2) works.
 
@ʞɔᴉN @sehe always did have a beautiful mind.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Right
 
4:39 PM
Every time someone writes cheers, I think Alf.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It matters because the context is R here, and does not include imaginary numbers.
 
I have not witnessed Alf around for a long time.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ right, well not under a closed field then there are cases where are are less than n solutions to a polynomial of degree n, most famously x^2 = -1. In your particular case it doesn't matter since any numbers where y = 6-x work for example (4,2) (5,1) and so on.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ as @BenjaminGruenbaum says, y = 6 -x is spiffy
 
Much like your mum.
 
4:43 PM
quite like so, yes
 
user1804599
@sehe got any experience with generating graphs in Java with Graphviz?
 
Ell
I just generate a .dot file
 
Loljava
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, but how do you demonstrate that y = 6 - x works in formula?
As I said if you take the system of that, then you get very weird stuff.
Like x = x - 12
Which is impossible
 
user1804599
@Ell With which library?
 
4:44 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ why? You just pick x = 4 and y = 2 for example.
 
user1804599
Generating dot yourself is shit.
 
Ell
I have never used a library
 
7 mins ago, by ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ
If you solve { y = x - 6, x = y - 6}, then you have { y = x - 6, x = x - 6 - 6 } which is impossible.
 
If you want to demonstrate it, you reduce it to axioms of field theory and then derive that either y = x or y = 6 - x explicitly.
 
Ell
I just implement it myself naïvly
 
4:46 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ that is incorrect, you did negation wrong, it isn't y = x - 6, it's y = 6 - x.
 
Ell
Naively
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What?
In A * B = C * D, you have to solve {A = C, B = D} and {A = D, B = C}
And that yields your 2 solutions.
In our case, the first straightforward one yields {x = y, y = x} which is ok.
The second one yields {x = y - 6, y = y - 12} which is impossible.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ well, only if they aren't composite, but they aren't so let's ignore that.
Wait, let's not ignore that, if AB = CD it doesn't mean either A = B or C = D
2*3 = 6*1 does not imply 2 = 6 nor 3 = 1.
 
why would that ever be the case?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What is not composite? What does it mean to be composite?
 
4:48 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ the polynomial, but let's ignore that.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Those are not polynomials
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ they are, but let's not go there. Your statement about A * B = C * D isn't correct.
 
That statement was about polynomials
Let's say polynomials of rank 1 at least.
 
How do I put it, in y = x - 6, we "invert it".
Do you agree that x * (x - 6) = y * (y - 6) is the same thing as (x - 6) * x = y * (y - 6) ?
 
4:52 PM
xD
 
opens up wolfram|alpha
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ ok, so you're ok with (x - 6) = y and (x = y - 6) solving it, right? Because it'd be the same thing as x = y and (x - 6) = (y - 6) from before since we just inverted their positions?
(That's called the commutative axiom btw)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, that's what I said I would do to find a solution, yes
 
(Every field has it, including R (the real numbers), C (the complex (imaginary)) numbers or Q (the rationals).
 
Interesting
Not vector spaces, that's for sure
 
4:55 PM
Vector spaces too, a vector space is always over a field. R3 for example is over R, the space of polynomials of degree n is over a field, matrixes and so on.
Vector addition is commutative, the dot product is also commutative but its product isn't a vector so there's that.
 
I go away for 5 minutes, you guys go back to elementary school. Wtf. Also, matrices, not matrixes.
 
@ElimGarak that's nice, where is your math degree from?
 
Ell
@ElimGarak we don't want to make you feel stupid ;)
 
you don't need a math degree to know math! :)
 
4:57 PM
Vector spaces also contain matrices
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Are you sure you want to go there? :)
 
@ElimGarak well, I was hoping to learn about interesting research you're involved in.
 
For which the product is not commutative. But let's not go there I guess.
Go on.
 
@Puppy is this your first job interview?
 
@ElimGarak if you don't want to talk about your alma mater that's fine, no hard feelings :)
 
5:00 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum you don't need a math degree to know math...
 
I obtained my masters degree from Caltech
srsly not bragging tho
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Full, realtime global illumination approaches. Within computer graphics. Which a man of your matrixes background surely knows is a branch of computer science depending on both mathematics and physics. Both theoretical and practical frameworks. Can we now go back to the Lounge and you folks visit Math.SE.
 
@ʞɔᴉN I got it here: fakediplomanow.com
 
@ScarletAmaranth I know, he was very critical which is very characteristic of people who are academics though :D
 
as soon as I save some money I'm going to be a surgeon
 
5:01 PM
@ElimGarak published anything recently?
 
@MarcoA. shhh
our little secret ;)
I'm going to become an anesthesiologist
can't be too hard
 
@ʞɔᴉN what could go wrong
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum My company's tech is currently proprietary. Not interested particularly in academics, even though I was encouraged multiple times to write papers for SIGGRAPH. People like you are the exact reason why.
 
@ʞɔᴉN that's cool :) What was your thesis about?
 
Now, matrixes, are we done?
 
5:02 PM
@ElimGarak matrices*
 
@ʞɔᴉN <3
 
@ElimGarak so, no publications and no academic background, but you're a native English speaker so clearly you're the superior mathematician, please - do go on :)
 
come on guys
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not native. Nor a superior mathematician, never claimed that. You have issues.
 
Also commutativity does not apply to "fields", rather to operations within a field.
 
Ell
5:03 PM
cmon guise
 
the only way to resolve this is to drag your pants down... I mean, to stop ego-ing and just relax :)
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ that is correct, but a field is defined by two operations.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Life, the Universe, and Everything
 
I trust you on that. Can we go on?
 
i get mad props for my work
 
5:04 PM
@ScarletAmaranth I'm having fun :D I love it when people cling on to spelling.
 
11 mins ago, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ ok, so you're ok with (x - 6) = y and (x = y - 6) solving it, right? Because it'd be the same thing as x = y and (x - 6) = (y - 6) from before since we just inverted their positions?
You were here
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I am clinging to you being a dick. Not spelling.
 
8 mins ago, by Elim Garak
I go away for 5 minutes, you guys go back to elementary school. Wtf. Also, matrices, not matrixes.
This in my book is being a dick.
 
Jesus Christ
Help me
 
haha, ok.
 
5:06 PM
You are overcomplicating a simple issue instead of explaining it to Jeffrey in simple terms. He didn't ask you to write a thesis on the subject.
 
STFU domajong. Please resume your glory fight later.
 
Ell
let's just get back to my venture Into cheese making
 
No problem, go on.
 
inb4 glory hole
 
@Ell Or that.
I want to see how this ends.
 
Ell
5:07 PM
different rennets have a different R value, I'm nit sure what that means
 
@ScarletAmaranth not even wearing any sooo
 
@Ell You speaking of cheeses?
 
Ell
Yes :D
 
Wait, are you seriously intent on making them? Would you procure the ingredients commercially?
 
Ell
I am intent on making cheese curds, which is pretty easy really
I'll just order some rennet on the internet
 
5:11 PM
New thing.
 
That's pretty cool, every time I try making food, it ends up terribly.
 
Say you have an array of elements and you can *2 and *3 any element in the array any number of times. Wouldn't that mean that I can multiply any element for every number I want?
 
Ell
You basically just Cook milk for a while, add Rennet, cook a bit more, separate whey and curds. Discard the whey and dry the curds and press into a ball
@elim keep trying! Cooking is great
 
I've had a bad experience with cheese, some kinds stink badly.
 
Wait... could it be? Renderdoc works with OpenGL?
 
5:14 PM
@Borgleader How well?
 
Ell
And some kinds stink greatly
 
idk, im about to find out
 
Not that's not true.
 
They've also been adding support for DX12, but it was limited last time I saw it.
 
You can't get *5 out of *2 and *3 alone.
My head is going wild.
 
5:15 PM
it's ok love
 
@ElimGarak Well thats not surprising
 
Not sure what's going on with CryTek lately anymore, either. They were pretty close to bankruptcy, especially their satellite studios.
 
well, Arena of Fate is rubbish
so CryTek Sofia will be fucked
 
They were too ballsy in expanding, spread themselves too thin. Their games were seldom much more than glorified tech demos. I liked Ryse's cinematic presentation, though. The story stuff, watched it on YouTube.
 
Arena of Fate looks pretty down to Earth (it's still horrible)
 
5:19 PM
Hmm, my textures arent bound properly it seems
 
Ell
how to form rendered riverbed
 
@Borgleader Heh, resource binding. The good old days. :P
@Ell Form a rendered riverbed?
 
Ell
There is a yahoo answers question "how to form babby". My real question is how so I render a riverbed? But I don't need it answering really, I'm just thinking aloud
 
that was really deep
 
@Ell is using again
 
5:21 PM
Ahahah
 
its ok I accept him
 
@ElimGarak I've always found OpenGL texture binding to be the most annoying.
 
Ell
I still bind everything in opengl. I'm targetting 3.1 though
 
@Ell as opposed to? bindeless resources in 4.5 (or wtv their name is)?
 
Ell
As opposed to DSA
Which has been an extension since forever
 
5:24 PM
@Borgleader Yes, also DX12 and Vulkan. Bindless model allows you to do much more than with any API before.
There's even the potential for "infinite" ranges which you can utilize, for example, with HLSL 5.1's dynamic indexing.
 
ah fuck you make me want to look into DX12 but fuck github.com/Microsoft/DirectX-Graphics-Samples is all there is (and the documentation which im lazy to dig into)
 
@ElimGarak infinite ranges? what?
 
@Borgleader Like with everything with computing, it's "infinite". Think of it as a boatload.
 
@ElimGarak my problem isnt with the word infinite, i dont understand what "infinite range" is in the context of DX12
 
user1804599
5:27 PM
omg odersky
 
@Borgleader That behaviour seems rather arbitrary and stupid.
 
user1804599
I thought of using an RDBMS in the compiler for representing everything
 
user1804599
also, @Ell ended up doing that yes
 
user1804599
 
@Borgleader Having a lot of resources accessible to you within the shader. Basically, really difficult to do now.
 
5:28 PM
@fredoverflow they only are if you arrow the message or is the only thing in the message, if you @someone it doesnt onebox
 
Ell
Wow first DSA extension was opengl 2.1
 
The binding slots system was really rigid and limited and had quite a bit of overhead attached to it. Mostly as it pertained to validation, which is now pretty much gone.
 
Ell
Why did it take so long to be standard
>.<
 
user3883753
safi safi
 
5:30 PM
I have been working on my IDE again after a multi-month hiatus:
d9ccb5a allow initialization in declaration
2633449 introduce void type
80232ee allow all arithmetic and pointer types as return types
Nothing major, really.
 
Ell
@slim I cant understand why anybody would want the bind system
 
user3883753
@ElimGarak
 
Ell
@fred introduce void type. Million dollar mistake ;)
Oh wait type.
 
user3883753
@fredoverflow where u from?
 
@Ell I can not be held responsible for C's design mistakes ;)
@Sino germ honey
 
5:33 PM
Doxygen interface feels 1995
 
user3883753
@fredoverflow Deutsh everywhere
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow I implemented type inference btw.
 
user1804599
Similar to many HM implementations.
 
user3883753
@elyse @fredoverflow from berlin ?
 
@elyse I know what HM stands for, but that's where it ends :)
 
user1804599
It's incredibly simple.
 
@Sino No, the city where hamburgers come from.
@elyse Oh, you're doing Scala again? I haven't kept up lately.
 
user1804599
HMburgers
 
I thought you had converted to Java 8 or something.
 
user1804599
no, Scala > Java 8
 
user1804599
5:35 PM
the only reason I used Java 8 for my lisp was because I didn't want to depend on the Scala stdlib
 
user3883753
burger
 
You may find this article interesting, about this very subject: yegor256.com/2015/08/18/multiple-return-statements-in-oop.htmlyegor256 Aug 18 at 8:24
@yegor256 return new If? This is a joke, right? — fredoverflow 24 mins ago
 
user3883753
scala is difficultt caus it's functional language like Ocaml
 
I honestly cannot tell if that guy is joking or not.
 
@fredoverflow 'murica?
 
5:36 PM
Since when is America a city? :)
public int max(int a, int b) {
  return new If(
    new GreaterThan(a, b),
    a, b
  );
}
WTF is this shit‌​?
 
user3883753
return new If () ??
 
@fredoverflow "As a programmer I write mostly in Java, but also in Ruby, PHP and JavaScript. "
 
That's somehow elegant yet repulsive at the same time :/
 
@fredoverflow pedantic nerd :P
USA! USA!
 
@ScottW That's how it supposed to be pronounced.
Don't be like Nab and pronounce it Scah Lah.
USA! USA! USA!
 
5:41 PM
USA!
 
USA! USA!
 
@ScottW You're never on mumble every time.
 
Ell
Scale errrr...?
 
last night was a partay
 
Lounge<Murica>
 
5:42 PM
@ScottW Jagged's birthday.
Also xcuses
prcuses
lcuses
glcuses
rcuses
 
'murica
 
@ScottW We need to check with your alma mater.
 
user1804599
I think I can make the compiler type check subroutines in parallel.
 
user1804599
Yeah, that should work.
 
user1804599
And it's just, like, adding .par to the source code to do it.
 
5:47 PM
same
 
user1804599
I'm doing very well.
 
cold as ice in here
 
Hot as hell here
 
hot as fuck here as well
 
I am thinking about making cheese because of @Ell.
 
5:52 PM
@elyse In Java, it's a bit more verbose: .parallel()
 
user1804599
Java sucks!
 
It certainly isn't on .par with Scala ;)
 
Java sucks!
 
user1804599
I can also lex and parse in parallel.
 
user1804599
And generate code in parallel.
 
Ell
5:53 PM
@elim woo I've inspired someone :P just fyi I've Never done it so I cant offer advice :L
2
 
user1804599
And some optimisations can be done in parallel.
 
Can you compile on your GPU?
 
user1804599
TCO for example is easy to parallelise.
 
@Ell Guess we'll both have to attend Caltech first.
 
user1804599
You can even parallelise it on the basic block level.
 
5:54 PM
^ parallel ice
 
@ElimGarak good luck getting in
 
@ʞɔᴉN Into cheese making? Ell says it is easy.
 
the admissions process is quite rigorous and doesn't just let anybody in
the Caltech college of cheesemaking
 
Ell
I think a cheese like mozzarella should be easy to start with too
 
make cheese
 
5:55 PM
@Ell I'd fuck it up, probably.
 
@fredoverflow make never seems to work properly for me
 
@ʞɔᴉN Ask Nooble. :P
 
Ell
It does knead needing though
;)
 
i C what you did there
 
I sing on the cake
 
5:59 PM
@fredoverflow does it make it more delicious?
 
I don't really eat cake.
 

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