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5:06 PM
@Borgleader you know my usage of blender is limited to making shapes and I also haven't used it in ages :D
I've no idea about anything the guy talks about there lol
 
@AlexM. You've never used any of the node editors? :(
 
nope
 
ah, well for things like the compositor you can use nodes to do things like this:
the problem is, you have to move nods yourself when inserting new ones which is somewhat annoying
but no longer!
 
@CatPlusPlus Yep- I've been using Clang-based x86 Windows exceptions for years.
 
so its the x64 ones that dont work?
 
5:10 PM
and msvc abi
but G++ doesn't even try to implement those so
 
Good afternoon, lounge.
 
whats up with these shitty flags
 
@Borgleader according to this, it's the x86 ones that need work: clang.llvm.org/docs/MSVCCompatibility.html#abi-features
 
hmm
 
@Borgleader Mhmm.
 
5:21 PM
@melak47 That's not "Exceptions on x86", that's MSVC compatible exceptions on x86.
Clang supports dw2 exceptions on x86 forever
 
who wants those :p
 
dw2 or death
 
@melak47 works well enough with mingw
 
bah humbug
 
Is it a good idea to include dependencies in your project or have them downloaded through make deps?
 
5:25 PM
Regardless of what you do, don't include source code or binaries of dependencies in your repository
 
pizza hut small is common sense tiny :D
 
that's not really true
 
tea cup for size
 
it can be easier to include the deps in the repo depending on what they are
 
if it's a common third-party library, don't include it
 
5:26 PM
pan pizza is very thick and it's enough to stop your hunger even at that size
 
Ell
@AlexM. dominoes? o.O
 
(however if it uses some special or dedicated flags, then maybe)
 
1 min ago, by Alex M.
pizza hut small is common sense tiny :D
 
it mostly depends on how easy it is to get hold of
 
@unordered_meow This is what nabijaczleweli said. I'm don't see the reasoning behind this.
 
5:26 PM
for example
 
we don't have dominoes in RO unfortunately
 
at work we have a bunch of dependencies that we all include in our repo because it's so fucking annoying to get the right version sof all the packages and stuff from nuget
 
@Puppy That's another thing. The way he's downloading the dependencies right now, it downloads the latest version. This could potentially break the build.
 
That's another issue
 
it's a completely related issue.
 
5:28 PM
there's this really pretty waitress at pizza hut, been there for a year now
 
if you ffrequently have problems getting the right version, it can be easier to include in the repo to assure that you always have the correct version
 
No, it's not. You can download a tested version by default.
 
really serious and distant and with a "fuck off with your silly problems I don't care" attitude towards coworkers
now if only I knew how to talk to people
 
@unordered_meow That's how it's supposed to work. But rarely how it actually does work.
 
@AlexM. i think you only find her pretty because she works at pizza hut ;)
 
5:29 PM
no she's really pretty but I think a lot older than me
at least 6 years I estimate
 
@Ell WTF did I just watch?!
 
Ell
TIL about fstar-lang.org
@wilx lol I don't even know
 
That's YAFL
(Yet Another Functional Language)
 
Ell
it's not quite
 
What functional world needs is unity not scrambling imho
 
Ell
5:32 PM
it's dependently typed & impure
 
what functional world needs is to stop pushing functional as the only solution
ship hybrid languages instead.
 
@Puppy like Scala? :P
 
like C#
(lol)
 
if the language only offers functional solutions it's as bad as Java
 
Ell
scala is great
 
5:33 PM
@Borgleader Never used it.
 
Alternatively, you can upload the dependencies somewhere and then just have them downloaded again, but I don't see the point. What's the rationale behind this? A smaller source tree?
 
@Puppy Their tagline is Object-Oriented Meets Functional
 
well just because it's a tagline doesn't really make it true
 
@Puppy i wasnt done, I have used it for a course in uni and you can in fact do both
 
used it for a course in uni means nothing
I used Haskell for a course in uni
 
5:35 PM
what if i had said "i have used it" instead
 
hey guys
 
what would have been your rebuttal then?
 
From a pure standpoint you want to keep your deps from your repo separate as they're logically different things. But as Puppy says, that's not always practical.
 
is using autotools valid for windows installs?
or how does it work?
 
@unordered_meow Ah okay I see.
 
5:37 PM
git submodules can or can't help with this, haven't used them yet.
 
@ChemiCalChems Why would you want to use them for any installs?
 
@Puppy because its a console util
you know configure and make_
 
that doesn't justify inflicting autotools on your poor user or fellow dev
 
what the fuck should i use then? everybody uses autotools, i'll use that, and give binaries also
 
also tracking dependencies is very annoying if you don't have a good environment or package manager
(that's C++)
 
5:39 PM
@unordered_meow Gaem uses submodules :D
 
you could use CMake or Ninja
 
CMake is fine yeah.
 
@Puppy i find cmake to be even more cryptic than autotools, its just my impression
 
@ChemiCalChems CMake is the easiest crap.
 
as near as I can tell
cmake is pretty shit for the devs but works for the users.
whereas make is shit for the devs and then it's shit for the users too
 
5:40 PM
@Nooble dunno, but i'm used to ./configure and make
@Puppy make being shit for devs? make is an awesome tool man
 
@ChemiCalChems It's not that hard.
You use CMake which generates project files or whatever (in your case a Makefile) and then you use make there.
 
@Nooble I know, but I get a bit confused at first.
 
@ChemiCalChems Make is a terrible, terrible tool.
 
5:42 PM
Or VermillionAzooray as you know him.
You're not gonna get very cross platform with make.
 
@Puppy That's your opinion. I find make to be useful.
 
people shut up about witcher 3 as quickly as they went crazy about it
I wonder if it will be mentioned in press as often as other titles in the long term
 
@AlexM. Most likely not.
 
Yeah, make is bad
 
@AlexM. prob during awards season a few months from now
 
5:44 PM
It currently only lives on on forward momentum, just like PHP and Java do
 
@Borgleader yes at the GOTY things
people focus on fallout 4 now
 
It's both bad as a low-level build engine and as high-level one too.
It's almost as bad as batch files
 
@unordered_meow Well yeah. Is there a replacement for make?
 
It was already said: Ninja as a low-level build engine, and CMake for C++ specific high-level one
 
@unordered_meow CMake doesn't really replace make, as it generates a makefile too.
 
5:47 PM
@Nooble Also ninja files and IDE project files.
Make support is included because of the already-mentioned make's forward momentum
 
@unordered_meow I've personally never used Ninja, so yeah I guess you're right.
 
cmake --help will get you a list of generators
Make is only one of them
 
@Nooble So can I compile for both Win and Linux easily or not?
 
@unordered_meow Yes, I know.
 
@ChemiCalChems You can't compile for either of them easily.
 
5:49 PM
@ChemiCalChems With CMake you make one CMakeLists and that generates any supported project file, whether it be a Makefile or a Visual Studio project file.
This way you're not locking the developer to an environment of your choosing.
 
@Nooble And how the hell do users make the project file into an exe?
 
@ChemiCalChems If it generates a Makefile, you would use make.
 
with VS or whatever tool they choose, more or less.
 
@Nooble make -ing Windows exes is a thing?
 
build systems all over the world do it every day
 
5:52 PM
@ChemiCalChems Dude it generates a project file for the environment of your choosing.
You could generate a MinGW makefile, yes.
 
@Nooble Hey. Chill. I've always manually cross-compiled.
 
This guy is a known troll, I have him plonked because of that
 
@unordered_meow Me?
 
And I keep him plonked so I won't forget that
 
he's not a troll, he's just 15 years old and doesn't know anything.
 
5:53 PM
@Puppy I'm just trying to learn.
 
which is fair enough
here's something you can learn
pretty much all of the build systems are truly terrible
the only ones worth noting are the ones that let the user pick their poison, like CMake
 
@Puppy Is coding something new not viable?
 
the rest of them are just "Crap, but not even the brand of crap that you're used to dealing with"
@ChemiCalChems It's perfectly viable. You've just gotta do it properly ;p
 
@Puppy Maybe it should be done.
 
By whom
 
5:56 PM
what, writing a build system that does not suck?
 
It's not a thing you can do in a weekend
 
@unordered_meow By someone.
@unordered_meow Oh, I know. But it could be done with some time.
@Puppy Yes.
 
well AFAIK Ninja half doesn't suck.
but you need a non-suck frontend to put on it.
 
but then you still have to deal with all the build systems that do suck for dependencies :v
 
besides, the reality of build systems is that we're kinda stuck with the ones we have.
they have a lot of momentum
 
5:57 PM
There's no "someone" here. We're all here in this mud. As in, you're also "someone".
 
@Puppy That's not good. Why the hell can people try new stuff?
 
@ChemiCalChems Because everybody in the world has to use something right now.
so they have experience and existing code in that something.
 
@unordered_meow Of course I am someone. I'm just learning.
 
my company has a shitload of stuff in MSBuild.
it's shit and we hate it, but transitioning away would cost us too.
even assuming that there were no problems integrating with Visual Studio
 
@Puppy That's true.
 
5:59 PM
@ChemiCalChems Assume that everybody is already busy doing something important.
 
so the long and short is
 
@LucDanton I understand why people can't simply transition.
 
sure, a bunch of smart people could do something better, but the effort involved is tremendous, and there's a shitload of other stuff that needs fixing
 
@Puppy That's crude reality.
 
indeed
that's why I wrote Wide to be backwards-compatible with C++ so that you don't pay a large transition cost.
 
6:01 PM
@Puppy if it aint broke, don't fix it
 
So what build system do you advice me to choose? I have experience with makefiles already.
 
@ChemiCalChems CMake.
 
@Nooble Ok. On it. Thanks
 
morning
 
@ChemiCalChems Currently I use Premake.
it's shit, but not in ways that directly impact me, and it's good in two ways that do matter to me- the language is actually a real language that's readable, and it supports generating build files for multiple systems like VS and make
 
6:05 PM
@Puppy That's good.
 
well it's really kinda shit
I just found one where the shit impacts me less.
 
@Puppy I'd be using Premake if it weren't for the fact that almost all of my dependencies use CMake.
 
my deps use CMake, make, boost.build, and some... thing truly god-awful.
but then I currently build all deps externally and not as part of my main build.
 
also hi all
qmake4lyfe
 
@Prismatic Hi.
 
6:10 PM
apparently the new android studio has c++ support
I wonder if its from CLion
It uses some undocumented gradle shit as a build tool though, so I'm guessing no
 
gradle is kind of annoying
 
@nabijaczleweli Are you dead?
 
pretty dumb really
in fact that whole picture is just "LOL I don't understand Early Access!"
 
have I mentioned my distaste for KDE
 
6:15 PM
Bob Jr. has passed away
he shall be sorely missed
 
Ell
ugh
the htc keyboard sucks
 
@Ell Mobile devices need mechanical keyboards.
 
Ell
I can't even type the right character I mean :v
I'm going to have to change my google account password so I can log in
it's a joke
 
My google password is a long string of randomly generated characters.
Or not, you know, I could be lying.
 
my pw is correcthorsebatterystaple
 
6:22 PM
Maybe you randomly selected 'aaaaaaaaa'.
 
@ʞɔᴉN All I see is ***************.
@LucDanton Yeah, maybe.
 
@Nooble that's because my pw automatically encrypts itself in unsecured input fields
 
how does it know if the input is secure or not?
 
the OS makes the distinction of course
 
his password is sentient
 
6:24 PM
What if his password wanted to change itself?
 
then it's even more secure
 
So secure you can't even get in.
Nice.
 
it stores itself in the keychain, come on
 
> \draw (x,y) arc (start:stop:radius); draws an arc
with radius radius
starts from (x,y)
with center (x+r*cos(start+180), y+r*sin(start+180)) and
ends at (x+r*cos(start+180)+r*cos(stop), y+r*sin(start+180)+r*sin(stop)).
it was easy until sin and cos showed up
 
really guys? your security is so 2008
is all that really necessary to draw a circle?
 
Ell
6:27 PM
@Nooble so is mine
if only the htc keyboard could input those characters
 
@ScottW You'd better give me a <3 too or there will be consequences.
 
wait wut?
 
I STILL DIDN'T GET MY GOD DAMN <3
No, I deserve my own special one.
 
wait where's my <3
 
I like the first song off this album a lot
 
6:36 PM
@ʞɔᴉN Get to the back of the line, bub.
 
user1804599
TFW you want to look for the Hack programming language by Facebook and type "hack facebook" into Google.
 
@ScottW I forgot who Bob Jr. was...
@ScottW Was it nab?
Oh heh.
It was either him or Veritas.
Anyway he's on vacation.
He's gone for three weeks apparently.
 
well
RIP gaem in that case
 
Not really, I'm still coding it.
 
awesome
add timing or go home
 
6:40 PM
I've been busy trying to implement pathfinding.
@ʞɔᴉN Timing?
 
pathfinding should be fun
i mean, keep track of delta time + multiply against velocities
 
@ʞɔᴉN Going to.
 
awesome
i'd help but i'm not sure where to start
 
Do you C++?
 
a little
my PC isn't set up for C++ dev though, would have to work off the macbook
 
6:44 PM
oh my god.
brain explode
fucking einstein field equations
my brain hurts
 
@ChemiCalChems UniqueEinsteinToEinsteinEinstein
 
Tensors. Tensors everywhere.
 
UniqueEinsteinToRefPtr
 
So ok. If I wanna use a library for my program which I will distribute as CMake, I do have to compile all the libs for the program for every platform supported, am I right?
 
UnickNickToNickNick
 
6:47 PM
good one
@ChemiCalChems i guess you could statically link libs
is that a thing or am I talking out of my ass? someone back me up
 
@ChemiCalChems Well you can add them to project.
If the library uses CMake too.
@ʞɔᴉN Right out of your ass.
 
@Nooble And let them be compiled when the user compiles the program?
 
@ChemiCalChems Precisely.
 
as I suspected
 
@Nooble I see. But this is only valid for CMake dependant libraries.
 
6:48 PM
also avoid making your users compile stuff
its a massive headache
 
@ʞɔᴉN Statically linking still requires you to generate a .a or .lib.
 
hm
 
@ChemiCalChems Yes, if they don't use CMake, make a CMakeLists for them too.
It's quite easy.
 
until they get a compiler error
 
@Nooble So they will be compiled in separate make files, am I right?
 
6:49 PM
When I get home, I'll show you my OpenGL project's CMakeLists.
@ChemiCalChems There's a makefile which calls all the other makefiles.
 
My brain hurts with tensors. Don't expect me to be lucid enough to understand.
@Nooble Which is the makefile you generate with the cmake call?
 
user1804599
> Ten reasons not to use a statically typed functional programming language

> Reason 5: I like to fix bugs
 
@ChemiCalChems The CMake call generates a Makefile for your project and every other project you add to your project.
The main Makefile calls the other makefiles.
 
@Nooble The makefile generated for the CMake call, is the one that calls all the other makefiles?
 
If you're using Makefiles, anyway. Otherwise, it's dependent on how your IDE handles it. Rest assured, it gets linked if you do it right.
@ChemiCalChems Yes. And all the other makefiles are generated by CMake too.
 
6:53 PM
@Nooble By CMakeLists if the lib or executable is not CMake dependent right?
I'm just putting puzzle pieces together.
 
@ChemiCalChems Everything CMake dependent has a CMakeLists.
 
@Nooble And the other stuff is compiled in makefiles, are that I understood earlier.
 
@ChemiCalChems Everything is compiled using Makefiles if you set CMake to generate Makefiles.
 
@Nooble I know, I know. I meant separate makefiles
 
@ChemiCalChems Yes.
 
6:55 PM
@Nooble I'm more lucid than expected. Ok.
 
@Nooble I could help, but don't know what needs to be done
 
@AlexM. First three Shpongle albums are all awesome.
 
@unordered_meow For Gaem? Well you could help by implementing an A* pathfinding function :D
 

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