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12:01 PM
rightfold
 
@рытфолд Singletons.
 
@Rapptz Yah, exactly
 
Ell
what shared state would vlc have between windows?
that makes it different to opening instances
 
user1804599
Playlist, for one.
 
12:22 PM
lol Javascript
user image
12
 
user1804599
why does he use * instead of =?
 
user1804599
is he a moron?
 
user1804599
But anyway, all of those make sense.
 
@рытфолд Because JavaScript, obviously.
 
pfft most of that makes sense
omg hands so cold, typing actually painful
 
12:27 PM
Do I have to link the "wat" video again?
 
no
but i have to wait on this seat for my train for an hour now fml
 
Ell
Has anyone tried forhangovers.com before?
 
rip myl life
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's a rhetorical question.
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit sux2Bu
 
12:28 PM
@Ell The best thing you can do is eat a banana before and after drinking.
And learn how to drink.
 
it was a rhetorical answer
 
Ell
@Jefffrey this is FDA approved tho and I herd it werkz
 
it was a rhetorical answer
lol fda
 
illuminati
 
Just drink enough water when you're drinking alcohol
 
12:30 PM
i do not recognise the "authority" of the "FDA"
 
that helps the hangover
 
Ell
and featured by bbc, gizmodo, etc.
 
and neither should you
lol bbc
lol gizmodo
lol etc.
 
Ell
lol and
lol lol
lol neither
lol you
 
that website should declare up-front that it is USAcentric
 
Ell
12:32 PM
Why? :P
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it's a .com domain
ain't that enough?
 
Hmm three weeks in Canada vs more days off throughout the year...
 
@Ell .com doesn't imply nationality
 
@milleniumbug It actually does, but not by definition, more by statistics.
 
@rubenvb Three weeks in Canada
 
12:35 PM
@rubenvb Correlation doesn't imply causation.
 
@milleniumbug Implication doesn't care about causation.
90% of .com websites belong to US companies (I'm pulling numbers out of my ass here) => the chances are high a .com address is owned by a US company.
 
55 minutes to go
 
We're not looking for the cause of a disease or something. Just plain ol' correlation is enough.
 
@rubenvb Even if that were true (real evidence that you haven't simply made up, please!) that would be largely irrelevant.
(although it's actually not)
being American is a disease! heehee
fortunately it's generally not contagious
 
If you have say, a set of representative samples of .com addresses, and 90% is US-owned. Then you can statistically predict that the next one you find has a 90% chance of being US-owned. The certainty of that prediction depends on how representative the sample was and how big your sample set was. There's no arbitrary links being drawn over other variables. Right? Or am I really talking shit now?
I'll be glad to take a counterexample to prove me wrong.
 
12:41 PM
joking aside you are correct
 
This is my mind speaking on a Sunday, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.
OK, phew :p
 
aside from the invented number
no you just need to remember where you are
 
oh yeah, hence the warning ;)
 
remember your place!!
 
It seems hard to find ownership by country statistics for registered domain names
 
12:42 PM
check your Loungelege
yeah i just tried
50 minutes to go. still cold.
 
Loungelege?
 
@рытфолд Of course. And that's precisely what's wrong with it.
@рытфолд Perhaps they didn't want to inflict some kind of unintuive MDI UX on their users, just because one fap-happy chap want's to stream his porn and conference talks simultaneously.
 
There should be another list for C: "Hello" + 27 -> UB
 
To me, starting two "players" to "play two vids" is perfect UX
@рытфолд Things that don't make sense, should not make sense.
Damn. Missed my throttling message.
 
@sehe SumatraPDF devs rejected implementing tabs for a long time. They did finally cave though.
 
12:46 PM
Loungelege is like privelege but the opposite
+sp
 
datetime + 1 month make little sense
 
Ell
@rubenvb ought to be relatively easy to obtain
 
prove me wrong
 
Ell
with whois
or whateve rit's called
 
@Ell You do know how many domains there are?
 
Ell
12:47 PM
lots & lots
I'm not saying scan all of 'em though
 
@rubenvb Well, there's a bigger audience that routine opens many PDFs than those that routinely open many videos. I'd say, having a dozen taskbar buttons for SumatraPDF doesn't really make sense. Having a taskbar button for each video doesn't seem like a bad idea
 
tabs in PDF viewers annoy me
already got a taskbar dont need to have to click twice to get where i want
 
@sehe Right, I agree with you completely. But still. It's a common point on discussion.
 
Yes. I think MDI was way overrated.
 
12:48 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit A lot of people keep a PDF viewer open on a seperate screen section that isn't covered by some other window.
 
bit different for editors as the activities across editor tabs are much more tightly coupled, at least if you're programming and as long as you're working on a single project at that moment
 
I bet people that demand VLC multi-streaming, also like Emacs for their OS editor
 
@rubenvb 90% of people?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit My ass is failing at producing hard numbers for that one.
 
:)
 
12:49 PM
btw "point of discussion" fyi #cheers&hth
 
Android apps are effectively singletons - that's why it sucks
 
we need more Alf in this room. Puppy and Bartek just aren't insane enough any more
 
Polar bears dispensing common sense on optimizing
 
> Its not functional bullshit (welcome to the internet, where you can curse). Rust does things differently than C++, if it did things the same as C and C++, we would still be in 1980.

If you want shitty abstractions, along with nonorthogonal and bloated APIs, go back to C++.

It is a [new language](http://users.rust-lang.org/t/c-has-vector-n-value-c-has-calloc-rust-has-uh/146/8), do not treat it like an old language.
 
12:51 PM
45 minutes
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit We hired you for the job, right :/
 
foobar2000 is so damn useful.
 
@Jefffrey If there's anything the matter with C++, it's that their APIs are too orthogonal for many people
 
meh i dont really do programming talk here
or do I?
 
You do. But only if it tickles your pedant senses :)
 
12:52 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you don't talk as much as you troll here in general.
 
exactly
it's not really in the same league
 
Oh, btw guys, I found a way to write a template FFT (invented by some other guy of course) that makes it crazy fast and simple.
 
i think Alf genuinely believes most of what he says
 
@rubenvb You need a blog
 
I am now in the process of verifying the implementation and seeing if I can push it into C++ AMP.
 
12:53 PM
"why bore others needlessly" --EMH
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think he genuinely thinks it matters what you say, yes :/
 
@sehe I tried that once. Didn't work out well.
NOBODY LISTENED!
But point taken. I'll shut it.
 
@rubenvb Well, I'm interested, but chat isn't the right place, I guess. Do as Cat/Robot; just make some place (heck, put it on loungecpp wiki)
@rubenvb You could, of course, "force" it into the Q&A mold :)
 
fitty level at this station: ~8%
 
@sehe No, you're absolutely right. But then I need to think of a cool name.
 
12:55 PM
rubenvblog
 
And actually have some results to present.
Which... I don't have currently.
 
@rubenvb I think GH pages autogenerated "Flaming Dangerzone" (that's Robot's place)
 
90% of them will be made up anyway
 
@sehe no shit. That's a cool name :P
 
@rubenvb It's not exactly unique, though.
 
12:57 PM
Well, he outranks the .com variant on Google XD
ah wait. He is the .com variant
 
just realised I've been craning my neck to look at the big clock every 2 minutes instead of simply observing the top of this screen
40 minutes
 
What are you counting down to anyways?
 
no wait 30 minutes
my train
coldness level: arctic
I wish some Loungers were here to physically talk to while I wait, except I really don't
 
Ell
Where are you?
 
Newcastle central station
3° C
 
Ell
lol
 
meh
ancient peoples did crazy things
 
i really want to go to a hot country. right frakking now
 
@TonyTheLion well-endowed party
 
1:02 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit amen to that
 
haha yeah cos modern people don't ever do shit like that
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit not the world Puppy lives in
 
i do wonder what Puppy's bubble is like
must be nice
none of that "drinking blood from fannies" nonsense
or in fact any cultural phenomena whatsoever
country borders dont exist lol
25 minutes
enough for two vames of halo fml
lol vames
 
@Puppy "ancient"
 
modern people do crazy things too
 
1:08 PM
A couple weeks ago, I thought the Lounge was dissolving. Today, I am reassured.
 
you owe me five bucks for that reassurance
 
dissolving why
how strong was this feeling?
like, 90%, or...?
20 minutes & brb
 
user1804599
I had this wunderbar idee.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 3 degrees Celsius is still pretty good. Wimp.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit inb4 20 minutes unscientific
 
user1804599
1:15 PM
Since I made precondition violations UB in release mode, I can have my JIT compiler assume object layouts.
 
user1804599
Resulting in integer–pointer addition and dereference instead of hash table lookups for member access.
 
@wilx In fairness, that can depend heavily on other factors (e.g., humidity and wind).
 
user1804599
And more compact objects.
 
user1804599
And I can inline small objects as well.
 
delayed ffs
30 minutes
 
1:19 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I was just about to prelaugh about train delays.
 
But now it already happened and I truly, truly feel bad for you.
 
now you can only postlaugh. sorry about that
theres a breeze too so its more like 0° C
 
Oh :s
 
1:20 PM
just remembered Yank project partners not believing us that wind chill affects operative temperature of electronics lol
 
user1804599
Immutability is optimisation heaven.
 
perfect weather for sunbathing
 
user1804599
So many guarantees.
 
but they also thought they'd found a bug when experiencing signal delay due to cable length variations
these are GPS/timing "experts" at a large Yank corporation
had to explain basic physics to them. it was sort of funny but mostly sad
three years later they still raise it once in a while as if for the first time
"but surely electrons travel at the speed of light" sigh
guess they meant speed of light in vacuum too
perfectly spherical light
moo
25 minutes
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit don't forget plane wave light too, otherwise it won't travel at the speed of light ;)
 
1:25 PM
it's actually quite sunny too. that's one of the damning things
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Cover yourself in black and lie in the sun with maximal coverage.
 
ok
How exactly do I print it? I'm quite new to php — chris154 16 mins ago
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit a longer cable doesn't mean a signal takes longer to arrive?
 
yes it does
don't you bloody start
 
Ell
Right, I thought you thought it didn't
hence "they thought"
man I'm confused
What was the problem with them thinking they're experiencing signal delay due to cable length variations?
 
1:35 PM
the problem is that they were surprised and thought it unexpected. that it was down to cable length variation was presented as a correlation they'd discovered after investigating the "problem" for like a week
it's like 3ns per metre through coax without additional attenuation, something like that
 
Ell
yeah
 
user1804599
Should month counting start at 1 or 0? How about day-of-month?
 
nope, delayed again
15 minutes
i'm gonna go see if it's here at least so i can warm up
 
@рытфолд The base of the logarithm does not matter, because log_2(x) = 3.322*log_10(x), and constants don't matter in complexity theory.
 
1:38 PM
@рытфолд Yes, each should start at 0 or 1.
 
user1804599
I never said it did.
 
12 hours ago, by рытфолд
One should always add the base explicitly.
 
user1804599
I was referring to API clarity.
 
user1804599
Not to algorithmic complexity.
 
oh :)
 
1:41 PM
hm no but there's a waiting room on the platform. fml
 
@рытфолд Explicitly stating the base would (at best) improve precision, not clarity. IMO, it's mostly misplaced precision though.
 
unscientific
 
i rounded up by one minute
 
user1804599
What do you think of end if vs end?
 
1:41 PM
for consistency
 
user1804599
And end struct vs end?
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin Which of the two?
 
I prefer end if if you're going to abandon beautiful }
 
user1804599
I am disgusted by curly braces.
 
in On lockfree logging, queuing and memory order, 25 mins ago, by Aditya Sihag
The re-write you have posted is quite slow, I'm not sure how spsc lierally doesn't support pushing from more than one thread ? Cause if I remove the variadic arguments and make enqueue accept just a string, then I can actually print different thread id's inside the push function. And since I have the spin lock, at any given point only one thread is accessing the queue through push.
Ultimately the goal is to produce a logger that has nanosecond latency on the thread that calls enqueue for reasonably sized lines (say 20 or so words -> representated as a combination of char *, string, and nume
 
Ell
1:42 PM
I prefer end
 
Shivers down my spine ^
 
lol talking about consistency
even though i like } rather than }if or something
 
Ell
make it indentation based
 
yeah actually fuck it just end then
 
Ell
indentationnn
 
1:43 PM
@рытфолд I like fi better than end if.
 
@рытфолд Different languages/APIs/etc., have used each. They both work. I'd use the same base as other parts of the language (e.g., arrays) default to, if there is one.
 
"Passengers are requested not to approach platform staff until the train has left" lolwut
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow And eludom and tcurts and tcejbo? :D
 
Why is object a keyword :S
 
5 minutes
combo breaker
 
1:45 PM
@sehe Because Scala
 
@FredOverflow Even Tony Hoare (who invented that convention in ALGOL) has admitted that it was "too cute".
 
What's happening? End of the universe?
 
user1804599
@sehe For creating objects.
 
Nice
 
user1804599
1:45 PM
@FredOverflow No, I have module for that.
 
end of this universe and start of a much warmer universe
 
user1804599
object … end/end object/tcejbo is an expression.
 
Ell
@рытфолд jesus no
I don't know how bash decided on that backwards thing
it looks horrible
 
why is everyone shuffling to the platform edge when it's reserved seating and the train isn't even here yet? noobs
 
1:47 PM
curly braces are totally fine.
 
fi fy fo fum i smell the breath of a bash script
curlies ftw
 
@Ell As noted above, it came from ALGOL.
 
{{{{{{}}}}}}
 
> No mum, I don't care where your train arrives. I am platform independent.
14
 
user1804599
1:48 PM
I'll go with just end.
 
@FredOverflow Nice one
 
but if you wanted a lift home from the station then you just sacrificed portability :p
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Cuz it's cold and they want to get in first?
 
Ell
racecar
   do_something()
racecar
 
OMG OMG IT'S HERE IT'S HERE
and my carriage stops right in front of me, nice
 
1:49 PM
@Ell TopGearScript?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes @sehe you guys tried to warn me about the Threads owning Objects vs Objects owning Threads thing... you guys were right. Sorry for being so argumentative over it
 
0 minutes
omg so warrrrrm
 
user1804599
I can't decide on import syntax.
 
well i hope you have enjoyed our time together today
 
user1804599
import System.Time.{ISOCalendar, LocalDate, makeLocalDate} is ugly, as are import System.Time (ISOCalendar, LocalDate, makeLocalDate) and import System.Time.ISOCalendar; import System.Time.LocalDate; import System.Time.makeLocalDate.
 
1:52 PM
import all the things;
 
user1804599
I deliberately don't support that.
 
@рытфолд i like the last one
 
user1804599
It complicates the importing mechanism and results in unreadable code.
 
@Pris no problem. It's just intuition from experience, I guess. Look at the other chat room I'm in for someone who's rightly oblivious :/
 
user1804599
How about System.Time (ISOCalendar, LocalDate, makeLocalDate).
 
user1804599
1:54 PM
Yeah I like that.
 
@sehe sometimes its hard to see the why until a thread tries to join itself because an object handled by the thread was the last shared_ptr to itself :p
@рытфолд do the sub modules have to be in a certain order
 
@рытфолд Add the import keyword and that's Haskell syntax, isn't it?
 
user1804599
No, but I like alphabetical order.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow You don't need multiple import keywords.
 
user1804599
import
    A
    B
    C
 
1:56 PM
tropmi
 
why cant you just do

System.Time.ISOCalendar;
System.Time.makeLocalDate;
System.Time.LocalDate;
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow No, just a different module clause or end.
 
user1804599
@Pris Much repetition, many lines.
 
@Pris DRY
 
@Pris huh. I guess the problem was joining on destruction. I didn't even see that you had that
 
1:58 PM
@milleniumbug is this really a DRY thing? consider
#include<lib/ui/blah>
#include<lib/ui/beep>
#include<lib/ui/boop>

There's some repetition but its valuable
 
@Pris How it's valuable?
 
@sehe by luck I put a check in my thread class before calling join to make sure the same thread wasnt calling .join() on itself. Pretty sure I would have spent a long time figuring out what the problem was. In any case, it was a 'lightbulb' moment and I immediately understood yours and @R.MartinhoFernandes issues
@milleniumbug what if you have a 'blah', 'beep', 'boop' header/module in another place?

#include<audio/beep>
#include<audio/boop>
#include<ui/beep>
 
@Pris haha, no
 
@milleniumbug you've never come across identically named headers in differnet libs?
 
@Pris import lib1 (audio, video); import lib2 (audio, ui);
The first audio is dependent on what lib1 is.
 
2:03 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Interesting.
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug I don't allow that.
 
user1804599
You have to rename one of the audios.
 
user1804599
Otherwise it's a name collision.
 
Goulash is on the stove. Now wait a hour or two and lunch will be ready.
 
user1804599
I like goulash croquettes.
 
2:13 PM
@рытфолд Is import in your language like import in Java (allow unqualified/partially qualified names) or import in Python (load this module)?
...or something else?
 
user1804599
Like Python, except without silly * and __init__ crap.
 
user1804599
And import Foo.Bar must be used as Bar, not as Foo.Bar.
 
Sooooo funny you deem __init__ crap (and rightfully so) but you like Perl.
 
user1804599
Perl is great.
 
Great crap
 
user1804599
2:15 PM
No. Great ice cream.
 
user1804599
It's a pearl.
 
user1804599
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwww yeah bangpath.org/blog/2011/08/03/…
 
@рытфолд And that explains the name errors then
 
user1804599
import
    lib1 (audio as audio1)
    lib2 (audio as audio2)
 
user1804599
Do this and the problem is solved!
 
2:22 PM
all that repetition
 
user1804599
There is no repetition there.
 
is there a static way I can check for a shared_ptr being created from within the destructor of a class that inherits shared_from_this?
 
@Pris Well, you trade repetitions when using the lib (lib1.audio.doThing(); lib1.audio.doAnotherThing(); -> audio1.doThing(); audio1.doAnotherThing();), to place then the lib is imported. If you use something in your library more than once, you already achieve less repetitions.
 
@Pris No.
 
hello
 
2:36 PM
no
 
guys I'm having some trouble understanding my compilation error message, here it is (Undefined symbols for architecture x86_64:
"Chess::Position::from_fen(std::__1::basic_string<char, std::__1::char_traits<char>, std::__1::allocator<char> > const&)", referenced from:
_main in legal_moves_comp-59fef9.o
"Chess::Position::print() const", referenced from:
_main in legal_moves_comp-59fef9.o
ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture x86_64
clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
 
Do you know what undefined symbols are?
 
yes
ok I ll go figure it out thanks anyway
 
fire Phonon torpedoes; full spread!
 
s/Phonon/Photon/ or did I miss a reference?
 
2:42 PM
lookup username 4 messages ago
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol :p
 
i cant wait till compilers get good enough to tell you whats wrong in a far more readable way
 
You would be a terrible Borg leader
@Pris clang has mostly done it
ultimately tho they cannot read your mind and it's generally good that they don't try
 
user1804599
NSAclang can.
 
user1804599
2:46 PM
It's an NSA fork of clang.
 
clang seems a lot better than gcc before 4.9ish for error messages, but i still think there's a better way to present error information to users
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Why do you think I'm here instead of ruling the galaxy D:
 
Like, do I really need to see lines like:

(std::__1::basic_string<char, std::__1::char_traits<char>, std::__1::allocator<char> > const&)
 
Well, that's a good point.
 
the Borg will never rule the galaxy
assimilation is futile
@Pris I think clang just calls that std::string, but don't quote me on it
hopefully only if you actually wrote std::string
 
2:51 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit its from the error @Phonon posted which was from clang
 
sometimes it's better to know what the actual type is though
@Pris huh so it was
well, never mind, then.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You must have only gotten part of the transmission. We said: "Do not resist your assimilation, resistance is futile."
 
sure, the information should always be there but its how you present it. I guess since gcc and clang are command line though you don't have a lot of ways to present information to a user
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit buffer overflow in assimilation.cpp: L 154
 
damn, subspace interference =/
 
2:53 PM
you have too many drones already
Stock Overflow
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's why I created a new type of Drone: DroneManager
 
@Borgleader great now you have an anemic architecture where the drones don't know how to handle themselves. Good going
 
@Mgetz Borg nanoprobes can cure anemia in a matter of... oh that was a metaphor
 
Anemic domain model is the use of a software domain model where the domain objects contain little or no business logic (validations, calculations, business rules etc). == Overview == This pattern was first described by Martin Fowler, who considers the practice an anti-pattern. He says: The fundamental horror of this anti-pattern is that it's so contrary to the basic idea of object-oriented designing; which is to combine data and process them together. The anemic domain model is just a procedural style design, exactly the kind of thing that object bigots like me ... have been fighting since our...
 
@Mgetz I was making an "in character joke" I'm not that dumb D:
 
2:57 PM
the borg IIRC actually use Domain Driven Design, Per "Best of Both Worlds part 2"
 
DroneManagerFactorySimpleton borgleader;
 

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