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Xeo
12:00 PM
Because I suck at making friends? Iunno, I don't like to go out, don't especially like initiating conversations, all that introvert stuff.
 
ball cancer definitely is
 
@nightcracker "dick" might be imprecise
prostate
testicles
 
@Xeo <3
 
@Xeo "Iunno" is not a typo, is it?
 
sbi
@AndyProwl AFAIK, here's a constant onslaught of Indian chat rooms where the young boys hang out and try to find a girl. (They are aborting female fetuses there like nowhere else, you know.) The mods are closing them when they get aware.
 
12:01 PM
I've seen it several times but no idea what it means
 
oh, how nice - EU will pay for gas for Ukraine
 
Xeo
@AndyProwl Contraction of "I dunno"
 
@nightcracker I think all tissue has the potential for cancer.
 
I see
 
It was codementor, thanks anyway.
 
12:01 PM
@StackedCrooked littlepinkycancer
 
sbi
@Xeo Initiating conversation isn't introvert. It's extrovert. And you can converse just fine, here and in RL.
 
> Key properties are: Absorbency, basis weight, thickness (caliper), bulk (specific volume), brightness, stretch, appearance, comfort, and cancer.
 
Xeo
@sbi Oh, sure I can converse fine - I just don't particularly like initiating that conversation, in person.
 
12:03 PM
@sbi they try to find a girl in a programmers' chatroom?
 
sbi
@Xeo Invite enough people and you won't have to.
@AndyProwl I know.
 
Interesting
 
sbi
It's been a thing on meta.
Search for it.
 
Xeo
Also, I'm not entirely sure about the "fine" part - I just neverk now what to say, so I mostly listen.
I like listening.
Doesn't require any special interaction on my part \o/
 
sbi
Anyway, there's things to do for me. Sigh. Like fighting the company that owns my apartment...
 
12:04 PM
@sbi Still?
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Constantly, in fact.
 
@sbi Can't find anything, but I suck at searching and I'll take your word for it
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes This week we had a small victory. The police checked on two of their construction sites and found illegal aliens working there. We made a splash in the news about it. :)
 
wat
 
lol
> HTML / CSS / WebDesign - only nice people
 
12:06 PM
You mean alien as in "that belongs to another country", right?
 
sbi
Wasn't Benjamin Gruenbaum here, too, once in a while? Or how do I know that name?
 
Yes, he was
 
sbi
@Jefffrey Yes, of course. They don't employ Martians, FFS!
 
I think I've seen him not long ago
 
sbi
He seems to be in the thick of it.
Anyway, gotta go. See you!
 
12:09 PM
Cheers
> This is what makes this so worth thinking about, Sean Parent is way to smart, to argue for destructive move, if there wasn't a point worth doing so
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I can't keep reading
 
Does it make sense to get a linker error if I change private: to protected:?
(IOW am I sane?)
 
Can't think of a situation where it should, OR happens before access control
(I know you know, just thinking aloud)
 
Access control shouldn't affect symbol naming, right?
Because here in MSVC it definitely is.
 
I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed to
 
Ah wait
There might be situations where this makes sense, for instance this
 
12:20 PM
the only situation it'd be relevant is if you're linking using two different definitions of the containing type, and then a linker error seems perfectly acceptable
 
That's not a linker error.
 
If you change private into protected you start getting a linker error, but the code wasn't compiling before
 
What.
Oh, yeah.
But In my case, the private: version compiles.
 
yeah
in that case I don't see how it could happen
 
Well, MSVC.
 
12:21 PM
In this case I can't see that MSVC does anything wrong though. Does it?
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
But In my case, the private: version compiles.
Well, compiles and links, to be clear.
 
you mean where both TU's see a definition where the symbol is private:
(aka, they see the same definition)
 
There's only one declaration.
(The definition never says private nor protected)
 
SSCCE?
 
sorry, I meant declaration
 
12:25 PM
@nightcracker Working on it. I just wanted to sanity check that this private/protected thing really was part of the problem, because it's too crazy to believe.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Seems you're correct
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nothing is too crazy for MSVC
 
> Typical type information in a function name looks like this: [...] Access level and function type
 
But why would it fail to find it with one but not the other :S
 
anyway, access control information is definitely included in MSVC's mangled names. If you run a demangler on the name, it'll reconstruct the access control too
gcc doesn't seem to do that though
 
12:30 PM
Ah, found it.
 
Is your function defined in a static library that you don't recompile after making the function protected?
 
There was a specialisation elsewhere.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah, doh
 
My coworker is only starting to mess with templates and forgot to mention its existence/didn't think of the relevance.
Now for eval.in/108854.
5
 
Xeo
12:34 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how does that work?
 
Ah! Think I figured it out.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Does this one eval.in/214919 help?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I love weak typed languages
:(
not
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes woah, that's so terrible.
Why would the md5 result of something be weakly equal 0?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Because 0 x 10^462097431906509019562988736854 is 0.
Same for 0 x 10^830400451993494058024219903391.
 
12:45 PM
oh, it does conversion to exponents haha, that's so stupid
JS probably does it too :D I hope python doesn't.
Yep, JS does it too
 
Python is strongly typed.
 
lol
@BenjaminGruenbaum PHP and JS are weakly typed
which is a terrible design decision IMO
Python did it right
we have to do SCRUM for our university
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, but python has a notion of 'falsiness', for example an empty list is falsey.
 
But that doesn't go in ==.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum and that's perfectly fine IMO
I've never ever been bitten in the butt by falsiness
I'd be honestly interested in an example where it was harmful
 
12:48 PM
Agglutination with nullness.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nulness in Python is x is None
 
Yes, if you always write bug-free code you'll never be bitten by anything.
 
^
@nightcracker it's not black and white - there are pros and cons, although to be fair the more years I use JS the less I like some parts in it.
Also, @R.MartinhoFernandes 's snippet is easily a +100 SO question if anyone feels lucky :P
 
Xeo
raaaargh
fuck two-phase initialisation
fuck it so hard
 
@nightcracker IOW, I find falsiness a redundant concept, especially if it can mean either nullness or emptiness.
@nightcracker Just like the language already has a way to test for nullness, it also already has a way to test for emptiness.
 
12:56 PM
(Which are all very different)
 
So, there's no functional need for this "falsiness" whose meaning is not clear-cut.
 
Well, it makes writing code more concise sometimes.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum what's so false about an empty collection? you still have a valid collection.
@BenjaminGruenbaum what? if(!container) opposed to if(container.isEmpty())?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, missed a qualifier.
 
well... sure, it's more concise, but it's not as clear as yo what it's doing.
 
12:59 PM
@thecoshman just to clarify - I was not saying I like it - just that Python works this way and is not 'strongly typed' in that regard. For example Swift started like this and removed this ability (to do if something to test if something != nil)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum sounds ugly.
 
@thecoshman yes, it's shorter, over thousands of lines of code that's less to type
 
I don't like when people use if(thing) when they really mean if(thing != null)
 
@thecoshman you don't really use either in practice. There are better ways to do it.
 
Xeo
how much there is to type is almost irrelevant
 
1:00 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I read code a lot more than I write it.
 
@thecoshman In C++ the usage is consistent, though.
 
@thecoshman ok - so you read less code.
 
Well, except for 0, I guess :S
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it is, but I can't tell just by looking at if(thing) am I getting a != null or some other conversion to bool?
 
But elsewhere it's always used for null or similar. std::vector<T>::operator bool is not a thing for a reason.
 
1:01 PM
if list is not None and len(list) != 0:
    pass # work on non empty defined list
if list:
    pass # work on non empty defined list
 
@thecoshman Why does it matter.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum but I read it more because it's not clear the first time.
 
@thecoshman Don't ever use +, then.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :P
 
@thecoshman I agree, but it's not black and white.
 
1:01 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes contrived example that was not very good :P
@BenjaminGruenbaum of course not. But you should write code so that it is easy to read. After all, in five years time, you are almost certainly not going to recall wtf it was trying to do, if it is even you who is having to support it.
 
First of all - a lot of times code is written more that is read. I have a lot of python code that automates stuff I wrote once and haven't read since and I use it on a daily basis.
Second of all - I generally agree, I value explicit code more than short code.
 
> And don't forget one in the command module.
Today is Michael Collins' birthday.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I doubt it. Sure you may have an example of something you wrote once, but I find it hard to believe most of the code you work on has not been read over since it was first wrote and had to be modified/fixed/expanded in some way.
Even if you just have to read over it to work out you don't have to modify it.
 
@thecoshman oh, it's not most of my code. I read most of my code more than I write it, but there is still a lot of code I wrote once and haven't really read.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum so it's a non-point... I'm talking about the general case, which as you just agreed, would be that code is read more than it is wrote, so you should favour easy to read code more than easy to write.
 
1:08 PM
Agreed, although different people have different ideas of what "easy to read" is.
 
ah yes, but that's now a very different problem :P
 
Some people find list is not None and len(list) != 0: very crufty compared to if list
So objects get a default 'falsey' value, the funny part is how it's always very frowned upon in JS and PHP for example but is considered good practice and pythonic in Python.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum and someone smart would us isEmpty(list)
the implementation of working that out is a trivial issue, the point is, you care about it being empty.
That intent is very clear.
 
What if it's undefined? That is - it's not an empty list - it's actually None?
(inb4 a good type system should make that impossible, not the case in Python with dynamic typing)
 
then isEmpty(list) should through, if you cared about weather or not that list is there, you should have checked first.
though, perhaps I need to know what this notion of 'None' is?
 
Xeo
1:14 PM
this is so horrible. I've been working on this single part for three days, and I still have no idea how to properly write it.
"properly" as in "isn't horribly broken"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum well no, even with a type system, null != empty (but you might not care either way)
@Xeo do you at least know what it should do?
 
Xeo
this code is so fucked up, ugh
@thecoshman Yes. But I have no idea how to coerce it to do so without it being broken.
20 mins ago, by Xeo
fuck two-phase initialisation
 
@Xeo it's a start at least.
I've been 'working' on a problem for like three weeks, and it's mostly because of trying to work out what on earth this is supposed to do.
 
@thecoshman None is basically your null
 
@thecoshman I know those feels.
 
1:16 PM
Only better formed, it's a NoneType
 
Here we go
I'll have my first experience in a team.
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Well, it's a feature I'm trying to implement, so of course I know what it should do :P
 
yay
 
@Xeo ah, so you are just being bad :P
 
@Jefffrey good luck :)
 
1:20 PM
thank you :)
 
Have fun :)
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Maybe. I don't know anymore
 
@Jefffrey (they're all out to get you)
 
@thecoshman (no pls)
 
@Xeo Overlapped I/O is clearly the solution.
Great product identity.
 
user1804599
1:38 PM
debian y u no python 3.4
 
user1804599
> cc: command not found
 
user1804599
dat server
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks for putting me on relay, robot.
 
fuck MSI
 
whats msi?
 
1:52 PM
Windows Installer
 
@jalf pray tell...?
I've found that windows installers work quite well compared to some of the third party garbage out there
 
so whats the problem with that?
can u tell us
 
@jalf Still the source of your woes?
 
What does git push -f do?
Ok, I'll google.
 
Forces a push even if your history doesn't match.
 
2:03 PM
How are you doing robot?
 
Say, if you push, then amend the last commit and push again, it won't work. But if you use -f it forces the remote to have the same history as you have now.
2 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I probably have gastritis, btw.
 
I'm sorry to hear.
 
Started taking some pills today. I've been fine today, which is a good sign.
 
Good.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Great! I'm saving my pills for tomorrow, (charity do tonite, much beer).
 
2:10 PM
1:09am, I am not sleepy ...
also found out that my app ran perfectly on iphone 6 without any modifications
 
iphone, best phone
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Poppin' two pills till my pupils fill up like two pennies
SCNR
 
user1804599
> It’s a common occurrence: You’re sitting at your desk, lost in thought, trying to solve a problem that’s been blocking your work all week.
 
user1804599
Not, that's not very common.
 
user1804599
The article is wrong and must be punished.
 
How ugly is to use a single malloc call to allocate memory to a bunch of different arrays that must live together?
 
@lvella This is a C++ room darling
 
2:29 PM
well, i thought it might be ok, since C++ has the cool std::malloc in the <cstdlib> header...
6
 
A ring a ding ding, boys and girls. How is everyone this fine evening/morning/afternoon (depending on your timezone)
 
I'm decent
 
@Nick dong.
 
@lvella Use std::vector and allocate them in the same scope.
 
@Jefffrey: I could have sworn you were Jeffrey, but nice to meet you decent :D
 
2:31 PM
I'm not Jeffrey either.
 
@Abyx: A ding dong bell to you too :D
 
Yeah, I saw that comming...
 
I'm Jefffrey
 
@Jefffrey: Wow, that is fff-ing awesome :D
 
@lvella C++ has a lot of warts we'd rather not discuss.
 
2:33 PM
@Nick no, I mean this - 8==3
 
@Nick Weather's nice. I'm not awake enough yet to say much more than that.
 
@lvella Why would it be ugly?
 
@Abyx: mhh, that's only true in mod 11
3
 
lol
rekt
 
Xeo
2:36 PM
FFFFFFFFF
 
@FredOverflow Because it is not the idiom people usually see, and may be harder to understand at first glance.
 
@Xeo white
 
Xeo
gawd
 
you racist
 
Xeo
I need a proper result_of for VS2012, anybody able to supply?
 
2:37 PM
@Xeo Boost?
 
Xeo
no Boost T_T
 
@Nick I'm hale and hearty, though planning to be ailing and indisposed later.
 
@Xeo It is not in Boost or you cannot use whole Boost?
 
@MartinJames: You have an extremely detrimental planning capability.
 
@Nick It's been said, yes:) I'm going to be infirm and nauseous for charity.
 
Xeo
2:42 PM
@VáclavZeman latter
 
@Xeo Copy the necessary bits out of Boost then?
 
Xeo
hahaha. Have you ever tried that?
I'm currently looking through the result_of header.
It's a fucking mess
 
@Xeo Lemme guess - you copy out a bit, then you need the externals, and the headers, and libraries, and they you suddenly realise you have copied everything.
 
Xeo
basically that
 
I'm miffed that I have to do a C++ project for my high school computer class. My curriculum prescribes that I write a practically useful program all by myself from scratch using certain features like files. My computer teacher on the other hand, has decided it be best if he just gives students copies of programs and he's making the students memorize it for the viva voce'. I was assigned "Library Management System" and I have the ugly code with me right now. Should I fix it up?
 
2:47 PM
> using certain features like files
 
Xeo
k, I just went and replaced result_of with the expanded decltype
 
It seems dangerous to do so seeing the complexity of the code:D
@sehe: I mean fstream and it's associated functions :D
 
> Should I fix it up
 
@sehe 404
 
@Nick If it "seems dangerous" it probably is
@Abyx 10k+
 
2:49 PM
@Nick Can you leave what was supplied as-is and add a couple extra features?
 
you mean easter eggs
 
@MartinJames: My teacher said "Do it if you can. I dare you."
 
@sehe Well, maybe improvised explosive code.
 
Xeo
soo... this thing compiles again. that's something, right?
 
2:52 PM
Mhh, firstly what I have with me is just a txt file of messy code full with bad practices and possible errors. Could someone link me to a C++ stylistic guideline that everyone agrees with?
 
@Nick lol 'everyone agrees with' in the Lounge:)
 
@Nick protip: don't invest too many resources in school
this includes time and effort
 
@Nick show it to an OCD lounger
 
@MartinJames: Ok, how about one which 'a majority agrees with'
 
@Nick Just 'spaces vs tabs' has been going on for years.
 
2:54 PM
@AlexM.: ... wise words. But I think the school thing is really just a side thing compared to the main thing that is "me learning"
 
fixing my professor's code would be the last thing I'd do if I was bored
I'd much rather fix... my own code
 
@MartinJames: Other than that. How about:
void func(){
...
}
vs
void func()
{
...
}
That one bugs me a lot
 
but don't take my words for granted :A I just have an innate hate for schools
 
PS: How do I write code in here a lot
 
I prefer '(){', but I'm not going to war over it.
 
2:57 PM
@AlexM.: Me too. They're factories that make cheap quality products.
 
@Nick WAT. If you consider bracing style all important, then I question your judgement
 
@sehe: It's not important. Just one of the first things that bug me... everyday... :D
 
It's the first example you give. That's making the rest look petty by implication
 
@MartinJames: You're right, I prefer that too.
@sehe: First impressions. What are we? In the 1800s?
 
> Unless you’re a developer, you’ll never need to know how to use Node.js.
lol
 
3:00 PM
@Nick no, we are humans
 
@Nick Welcome to the lounge bro. If you want to have a useful discussion, might as well bring useful arguments.
6 mins ago, by sehe
@Nick show it to an OCD lounger
 
having headphones that don't actively hurt your ears is so nice <3
I can just lay down on this chair, put some calm music on
 
@sehe: lol :D kay
@sehe: Where can I read about the read() method syntax and usage? eg: f.read((char*)&st, sizeof(...));
@AlexM.: What's your idea of calm music? Also, we're humans only by biology, not mentality. :D
 
music that doesn't stop you from sleeping
I don't understand your last sentence
 
:D Beethoven on that playlist?
@AlexM.: Best if you don't. Things always seem truer when it can't be understood.
 
3:06 PM
:D no :D
beethoven is pretty loud
 
yeah, I was testing you.... Ofcourse I know Beethoven is loud. I listen to classical all the time. Yeah.
poker face
 
no classical pieces that are calm enough come to mind right now
closest that can get to that for me is Debussy's Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faun
but if pedantic, Debussy's works are part of impressionism rather than classicism
 
I graduated, I refuse to take your quizz. — Borgleader 2 mins ago
:P
 
@AlexM. Not all of it--he also wrote some piano music.
 
@sehe do you know this piece? youtube.com/watch?v=Y3qO6-Cqzhg. Its time signature is (1/sqrt(pi))/sqrt(2/3).
 
3:20 PM
@Nick syntax: langspec, usage: manpage
@AlexM. classicism != classical music
 
is classical then just a synonym for old?
what currents does it encompass?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope
> Playing this song in the bedroom gets me laid all the fuckin time
 
@JerryCoffin yeah, that's something I overlooked
 
Hm do non-enterprise streamers exist?
I wonder how expensive would that be to replace my periodic CD backups
 
catholic chants also fall into the calm category for me, they're definitely soothing to listen to
Civ IV did a good job of including them in the medieval age soundtracks
 
3:25 PM
what is the regex for must contain 1 of a and one of b but order in not important?
 
First check for one and then for the other
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think this will help me program the metronome:
Mmm. I see Wolfram didn't take it the way I hoped. Oh well
 
@sehe It's for the player piano, so not meant to be played by humans.
@sehe What do you mean?
 
It made it chained divisions (makes sense)
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can have a metronome running with a player piano too :)
 
3:29 PM
Wow beautiful just beautiful .... :) i think i need to study template more — Indika Herath 10 mins ago
I was quite pleased with that code myself too
(the goal is dubious, but hey)
 
3:42 PM
WARNING: FLASHING IMAGES
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah looks like and is tricky to express in regex
 
Xeo
Hm. For types that have an aligned_storage to store multiple types, how would you allow proper viewing in a debugger?
 
I managed to burn my head with my desk lamp
Well slightly
Like I haven't had enough headache today
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
3:53 PM
lol there is a PostgreSQL foreign plugin
 
for a moment I thought that was an SQL-powered OS
 
> The 50-year-old man had qualified as an insurance salesman shortly before [sawing off his finger] in February 2010 and took out four separate insurance policies - with special clauses covering finger injuries - for himself.
Now he's fingerless, and sentenced for fraud.
 

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