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user1804599
8:05 PM
Watching MGS3 videos gives me goose bumps.
 
user1804599
That game is so damn good.
 
yum steak
if only cooking your own food didn't take this much effort :(
 
user1804599
buy a slave
 
Ell
@AlexM. it doesn't!
 
steak is not much work (still wouldn't do it myself though)
 
8:18 PM
@Ell yes it does
 
Ell
Cooking can be quick and easy yet very rewarding
@AlexM. where is the effort?
 
even washing the frying pan takes too much effort in my book
 
I can get good steak closeby.
 
actually doing any dishes takes too much effort in my book
so the effort isn't exactly in the cooking process itself
but in what follows next
 
@AlexM. I solved that problem by having only one plate, one fork and one knife.
 
8:19 PM
I try to sync my cooking with when my parents come to visit
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Would you do it if you had a steakholder?
 
(my mum has years worth of dishwashing experience)
 
@rightføld oh you
 
user1804599
oh me
 
Ell
@AlexM. boy
how do you ever get anything done? :P
 
8:21 PM
by pressing keys on my keyboard!
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked een messteek, ja.
 
@AlexM. I would rather wash 10 frying pans than press keys on my keyboard
 
can't wait to go back home during the holidays
I'll be able to cook every day
and let someone else take care of cleaning
 
Especially if what I'm doing is web dev and/or C++
 
user1804599
Web dev is terrible.
 
8:23 PM
In deed
 
user1804599
Better drink my own piss.
 
speaking of cooking
 
user1804599
no, don't put piss in your meal
 
@StackedCrooked I have four plates, four bowls, etc.
 
saw a recipe where you'd cover roasted chicken in honey
I wonder how that would taste
 
8:27 PM
I try to make it so that I always have one in reserve
 
user1804599
@Puppy Wide has zero forks.
9
 
@AlexM. Probably even more disgusting than regular chicken.
 
@rightføld lol
 
@Puppy I dunno
it certainly looks tasty
I can only try it at home though :(
I don't have an oven here
I'm an aspiring cook with a hand severed
/drama
 
user1804599
No aspiring cook ever visits McDonald's.
 
Ell
8:30 PM
@rightføld zinggg
 
if you think that looks tasty, then you have broken eyes.
coming from the guy ordering his glasses right now
 
@rightføld I'm only going there to..
uhh
evaluate the quality of their food
 
user1804599
McDonald's uses 3D printers for creating the food. The employees are there just for show.
 
how would that be different to any other food?
 
Ell
my code compiled a second ago. hmm
@Puppy most foods aren't constructed with 3d printers
my code compiled a second ago
what happened
 
8:34 PM
most foods are 3D printers.
there's just lots of them on a very small scale.
 
user1804599
That makes no sense at all.
 
It does to me.
 
see.
Martin and I should become honorary Life Partners™
 
Cells...reproduction..DNA etc.
 
precisely.
 
8:37 PM
That's a far stretched analogy
 
Ell
 
we are nothing more than elaborate protein printers which can print elaborate molecular structures in 3D.
 
speak for yourself
 
pretty sure that I speak for virtually every life form on this planet.
except perhaps viruses, which could be considered as stealing someone else's printer.
 
@Puppy Cellular hackers.
 
user1804599
8:39 PM
> The full-colour ChefJet Pro is gonna be under $10000.
 
@MartinJames Now that we have CRISPR we now are also cellular hackers.
 
Terrible analogy.
 
I'll go get some more wine
 
@Rapptz I thought it was quite good.
 
user1804599
eww wine
 
8:40 PM
funny how I was hating my alcoholic grandfather as a kid
 
It's not really true.
 
Maybe it's 'cos I've had no beer yet.
 
Ell
Your analogy is bad, you're bad and you should feel bad
 
also just for the record
I'm not a 3D printer
I'm a human being
thank you
 
There are many more processes going on in the body of every living organism outside of producing protein.
 
8:41 PM
you 3D print lots of new cells all the time.
 
Producing protein isn't even the 'end goal''.
 
Ell
@puppy I don't think you know what printing is
 
I just woke up
 
yes, I have never observed a printer in action or printed any document.
 
I'm tired.
 
Ell
8:42 PM
@puppy clearly not if you think you're made of printers :P
 
my cells die all the time and new ones are created to replace them.
 
user1804599
Yes, but they are not printed.
 
the implementation is different but the interface is the same.
given code sequence X, produce structure in 3 dimensions that matches it.
 
Yeah - we're all xeroxes of one original cell.
 
obviously not perfect reproductions
 
8:43 PM
Nah - that was bad.
 
but mechanical printers on the human scale make mistakes too.
 
Ell
Okay when isn't something printing when its producing something physical?
 
DNA is data, everything else is power supply, CPU, simple code etc.
 
there is no notable difference between various forms of printer and various industrial processes, they just occur on different scales with slightly different ingredients.
IIRC laser printing isn't dissimilar to the lithography we use to produce CPUs.
 
@Puppy .. or some biological processes.
 
8:46 PM
didn't cells divide to produce others?
mitosis or something?
 
implementation detail.
 
Ell
So to you manufacture = print
 
user1804599
@Puppy If the sequence contains money-like structures, will the reproduction also be aborted with a link to rulesforuse.org?
 
Ell
@puppy implementation details matter in real life
 
only if you want to implement something.
they don't matter when you want to know if what you have is something.
somebody else already took care of all the implementation details.
 
8:47 PM
@AlexM. memcpy.
 
@rightføld More like, they get terminated by antibodies for having dangerous mutations.
personally I'd argue that the primary interesting difference between printing and various manufacturing methods is how flexible the system is.
 
user1804599
I should 3D print a drone with my Google Glass.
 
you can't turn a steel foundry into a paper mill.
 
user1804599
#hipsterfold
 
well, not without ripping out everything that made it a steel foundry in the first place.
but with a printer you can make nearly arbitrary structures- something that DNA certainly can achieve.
 
8:49 PM
There are 3D-printers for steel
 
user1804599
There are 3D printers for lizards.
 
Ell
A router isn't a 3d printer
 
it prints photons down a fibreoptic cable.
although let's face it, the router probably just prints 1s and 0s and probably doesn't need to consider where to print the photons in all three dimensions.
 
ITT, some Loungers think that they are more than complex machines.
 
8:51 PM
When 3D printers for steel become good a bunch of problems will be solved.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked How do you know?
 
dunno....
 
@JohanLarsson That will take some time since steel is such a complex material.
 
user1804599
unpainted nails 6/10
 
@MartinJames And requires pretty hot temperatures to be flexible enough to work with.
also
 
8:52 PM
Nice to draw internal honeycomb structures in CAD and manufacture it cheaper and faster than solid.
 
fuck steel, call me when you have a carbon nanotube printer.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked lol 19:22
 
THAT will be some epic shit.
 
@MartinJames dunno how long. The prints I have seen had good mechanical properties, rough surfaces was the only issue really.
 
user1804599
Big phones are stupid.
 
8:54 PM
Also nice to draw an 0.1 mm stainless layer on the outer boundary.
Impossible alloys etc.
Maybe not draw it even, just spec the printout.
 
code is the best printing though.
3D print yourself the most powerful stuff in the universe- bits.
 
can't parse ^
 
@MartinJames help the guy out
 
how is C#?
 
it's OK
it's no C++.
who the fuck came up with half the random shit in that language, it's even worse than C++.
 
9:01 PM
> In 2010 the Romanian government, through the Health Minister Attila Cseke, citing that as a result of a diet rich in junk food, obesity affects more than 20% the Romanian population,[1] was thinking to impose a tax on junk food, known popularly as McTaxa (referring to McDonald's food) on fast food, such as McDonald's, KFC, Pizza Hut and other junk food such as snacks, deserts and sodas.
TIL about the McTax
 
examples?
 
my personal favourite that I always pick first is having to put shit in a class every time.
no volatile local variables (???)
 
Ell
@puppy I meant a wood router for example
 
can't have NSDMIs in structs for no apparent reason.
 
user1804599
okay
 
user1804599
9:03 PM
what to invest money in
 
nsdmi?
 
non-static data member initializers.
 
yea structs are weird
I don't write structs all that often
 
user1804599
Maybe I could buy palladium.
 
oh yeah.
the variable name scoping rules are fucking annoying.
used a variable name in subscope earlier -> can't use it in another scope now.
 
9:13 PM
yeah that is annoying
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
user1804599
You can rent a safe at the bank right?
 
@rightføld you can buy % of wide
 
user1804599
I want to keep gold safe.
 
a safety deposit box.
 
user1804599
9:13 PM
Don't want to store it at home.
 
does firefox not spawn a new process per tab? it's substantially slower than chrome when opening a new tab
 
AFAIK all browsers use multi-process model now
 
it's not bad but the stuttering is annoying if you're used to chrome's behavior
 
I use Chrome at work and Firefox at home and I don't notice any substantial difference.
 
user1804599
> €149,- per year
 
9:17 PM
Isn't a multithreaded program guatante ed to be simulated like If it was multithreaded even on a single core processor?
Evening
 
@Jefffrey you mean task switching?
 
Yeah
A friend of mine says he has a multithreaded program running each thread sequentially on a single core
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Similarly: how else would you run more than four threads on a four-core machine?
 
Context switching
 
which can cause problems, if you make too many threads, you'll get oversubscription and your performance will drop because the cpu will spend more time switching between them
 
user1804599
9:19 PM
Yes, so that happens on a single-core machine as well.
 
user1804599
There will just be no threads running in parallel.
 
well theyll be sequential, its just they switch so rapidly that it looks like they run in parallel
afaik anyway
 
He says they are running one after the other. Not alternating.
 
user1804599
Threads will be put to sleep during I/O operations and to prevent starvation also abruptly.
 
hmm no, because often times a thread essentially has a while(true) in it (a threadpool for example), you cant "run it to completion"
it ends when the application shuts down
 
user1804599
9:21 PM
@Jefffrey That would imply an incredibly stupid scheduler.
 
Ikr
It's weird
 
user1804599
It may be the behaviour he observed, but by any sane scheduler it is not guaranteed.
 
@Jefffrey Concurrency != Parallelism. (i.e. yes)
 
user1804599
Let him run for (;;) { std::cout << "hi\n"; } while using other programs in the meantime.
 
user1804599
He won't have to wait until the loop has finished.
 
Ell
9:25 PM
My friend hasn't replied for a day
We talk daily usually
I hope I'm not hated for some reason
 
user1804599
@Ell Maybe he's being managed by Jefffrey's friend's scheduler and waiting for a loop in another thread to finish.
 
@Ell So, you hope you're hated for no reason?
 
Ell
Well I have no reason to be hated by this friend
 
Maybe he needs no hate to skip a day
 
so youre just being paranoid then
 
9:30 PM
@rightføld what is?
 
@Ell sounds like you might be overattached
 
Ell
@borgleader meh, there are reasons other people could hate me :L
 
let him take a day off
 
user1804599
@sehe kluis bij bank voor goudopslag
 
Nuttig
Does anyone have a favourite fixed_string implementation?
 
9:33 PM
@Ell stop being a jerk then?
@sehe char*
 
How is that a fixed string.
 
it's quality, very good job.
 
It's not a string. It's a pointer to a char. No size, no alignment, no allocation, not useful as a POD with value-semantics, no embedded nulls, no stringlike interface (begin(), end(), data())
 
user1804599
lolwut
 
user1804599
9:38 PM
6
Q: How to implement a string that solely allocates on the stack

sbiIn a project about a decade ago, we found that std::vector's dynamic allocations caused a serious performance drain. In this case it was many small vectors allocated, so the quick solution was to write a vector-like class wrapping around a stack-based pre-allocated char array used as the raw stor...

 
@rightføld Yeah. Seems to be the overruling sentiment. I wanted it to have POD types containing strings, yet have some safety when handling those buffers
 
Ell
@thecoshman its difficult when there is a conflict in interests :L
Also I don't think I'm being a jerk, other people do
 
@rightføld llvm.org/docs/ProgrammersManual.html#llvm-adt-smallstring-h could be a starting point. Ah no, it falls back to heap alloc
 
user1804599
What interface do you need?
 
Awesome sub-reddit, loads of horror artwork.
 
user1804599
9:44 PM
Easiest would be to add methods to template<typename CharT, std::size_t N> class fixed_string { private: std::array<CharT, N> data; std::size_t size; };.
 
user1804599
And release it as FOSS instead of being an asshole.
 
user1804599
Because it appears there is a need for it.
 
@rightføld Just assignment/copy, comparison, mebbe concat. And it should track it's current size
 
operator+= doesn't update size?
 
user1804599
TDD!
 
also, const_cast ...
@rightføld what tests?
 
user1804599
Don't wanna duplicate logic. It does more than just returning a value.
 
user1804599
10:07 PM
@sehe exactly.
 
:(
 
user1804599
Also getting segfault. Wait.
 
user1804599
+= also has a bug when it passes the end iterator.
 
user1804599
It's the wrong end iterator.
 
user1804599
I also have to keep a NUL at the end.
 
user1804599
10:14 PM
But I can do that lazily.
 
@rightføld Why?
 
user1804599
Consistent with std::string.
 
@rightføld I was actually thinking about reusing stuff like: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/ce82173e4be0cc2c
 
user1804599
You can easily remove it if you want (remove data[size_] = '\0' and mutable and + 1).
 
10:18 PM
Of course getting all the features there is just tedium. It's like you say. Someone should FOSS this
 
user1804599
I could put it in Baka.
 
@sehe why not hinnant's stack_allocator on regular std::string, wrapped into one class to allow easy copying?
Then just delegate whatever interface you want to export
 
@TemplateRex mmm. Does it fall back to heap or throw on capacity excess?
@TemplateRex delegating is no fun, but beats the hell out of reimplementing
 
@sehe hinnant's version falls back to new, but you can throw if you want to. One line change
 
user1804599
Nothing beats allocating everything on the heap and using a GC.
 
10:21 PM
@TemplateRex I'm afraid a regular allocator with default std::string realloc strategies might lead to hilarious fragmentation levels. Perhaps if I also forced a reserve for the total "private pool size"
@rightføld for simplicitay
 
user1804599
Speaking of Baka, I should also implement seeking aaaa.
 
@TemplateRex thing is, it'll probably throw if the allocator fails, which != when the max supported buffer size is exceeded.
 
user1804599
And stream traits aaaa.
 
Yay, new character unlock @Rapptz @CatPlusPlus.
 
lol congrats
 
10:22 PM
@TemplateRex I'll think about this. Surely beats implementing from scratch
 
Your fixed_string constructor of course does reserve(N)
 
@TemplateRex hehe
 
@LucDanton Which game?
 
That will kill realloc strategy, cuz allocator throws beyond N chars
 
RoR
 
user1804599
10:23 PM
What about RoR?
 
@Rapptz ah
 
user1804599
Oh not Ruby on Rails.
 
Ell
My friend replied phew
 
@Ell djesus... you really are paranoid :P
 
The opinion of many in the C++ community has gradually become "implicit conversions are evil". They frequently create a mess with overload resolution and TMP — sehe just now
@Borgleader nah, he's relieved
 
10:25 PM
@sehe Earlier he was scared his friend hated him
 
@TemplateRex this is what I'd want
 
@sehe alternative: take libc++ source, and change sso limit of 22 and make it a template parameter
 
@Borgleader I was tehre
 
Ell
@borgleader I don't have many friends at the minute :P
 
@TemplateRex mmmpf. I like the alloc strategy better already (more general also)
 
10:26 PM
@Ell i hear you can rent some by the hour
 
> friends
 
@sehe Gratuitous mention of TMP again?
 
But the heap thing is not so bad. Just measure string length distribution in your app, pick N so that it covers 9x% of cases and go to heap otherwise
 
@LucDanton no. It's warranted IMO, since template argument deduction inhibits implicit conversions, leading to surprised many-a-time?
 
Nothing meta about this programming.
 
10:28 PM
@TemplateRex You're assuming purposes :)
 
Do you use ‘TMP’ to mean programming that involves templates?
 
@LucDanton Mmm. Damn. Generic != meta, then
You're right
busted :(
Not consciously, but yeah, that just happened
 
user1804599
Temporary programming.
 
I’ll blame the STL :)
 
> the STL
 
10:30 PM
About as sensible a name as ‘the Standard Function & Class Library’.
 
:) Wokay, I've fixed the comment in the nick of time. No time to polish up the wording
 
No just safety concern about variable interface on fixed buffer. As soon as you add append() to your fixed_string, open a call center :-)
 
You know, there are applications that really thrive on fixed buffer sizes (and where the inverse rule holds true: as soon as you do dynamic allocation based on e.g. network input value, open a call center :----))
 
user1804599
Luckily I'm not the one writing those applications.
 
Meh. Me neither, usually.
 
10:33 PM
Guys
I love you ;_;
 
you drunk again?
 
@sehe i know, but they should not append, or at least accept rangechecking
 
I'm never sober in the first place
 
user1804599
Hmm, abstract override is so cool.
 
user1804599
I can do middleware with it!
 
10:34 PM
You're cool
 
Howard hinnant had a nice override trick the other day
5
A: Is there any sense in marking a base class function as both virtual and final?

Howard Hinnant Is there any sense in marking a base class function as both virtual and final? Yes, at least temporarily. I found myself in a relatively large and unfamiliar existing C++ source code base. Much of the code was written prior to C++11. I found that I wanted to ensure that all overrides of a...

 
@TemplateRex of course they should do rangechecking. And yes, the appending is an artifact of trying to minimize differences between std::string and this fixed string
 
@sehe nah, just give em raw performance, callee responsibility
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hey
 
10:39 PM
@TemplateRex ? huh. You're back stuck at "performance" for some reason
heydeehey
 
@sehe if one so badly needs fixed buffer without heap fallback, then why rangecheck?
 
... that's about the only time you actually need them, right
 
Heck, those very same users probably are not gonna want exceptions either, so just mark allocator noexcept, straight to std::terminate :-)
 
@sehe pardon me for not excusing your every action. Seriously though, you need to stop taking this so seriously. (yes, I did just read that back, I'm sticking to it)
 
Cool story, m8
 
10:43 PM
@sehe yes of course you are right, it is a bit of schizophrenic data structure though
 
@TemplateRex I'm not making anything for "those guys". I'm making it for me. And, usually I don't sweat the actual allocations (std containers will manage it for me, right). But once I go fixed (e.g. for serialization) then I want to know which assignment overruns the buffer (or leaves it non-null-terminated)
@TemplateRex Schizophrenic is the word, indeed :)
 
@sehe sch, not sh
 
@thecoshman You can stick to whatever you want, but it was the last time I listened to you stirring it up for no good reason.
@TemplateRex I meant, semantically, excuse the typo
 
@sehe that is a good point
 
@sehe ah now, what good is the past if not for stirring up?
and the 'sticking to it' is me saying "seriously, don't be serious"
 
10:48 PM
@thecoshman Ah.
@thecoshman mmmm. wonders wether...
(What good is the future if you're just gonna stir up negative versions of the past)
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
Maybe there exists a programming language even more hellish than C++ on a planet in that galaxy.
 
Ell
11:10 PM
Rightfold
How is Styx going?
 
11:48 PM
@rightføld There are plenty on Earth.
 
10-core Computer Cluster ^
 
Ell
Neat
 
Can it toast bread?
 
@sehe I think I'd rather have i7-5960x 8 core/16 HW threads.
 

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