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9:04 AM
@rightfold You got to admit this is more interesting
 
heh
I brought my new pc to work
we compared it side by side to newest T40
lol wat 7 stars on that post
BTW I've read more about Hyper-V
and it seems VirtualBox is really more convenient for typical work
where Hyper-V might be more performant
 
They're not the same thing at all
 
the end result is a virtualized OS :P
 
when I saw how fast Win7 ran on vmware player, I kinda stopped considering other vm software
it works perfectly for me
I've had the most success with vmware player for everything actually, I remember not being able to run os x in virtualbox and being able to do so in vmware player
 
vmware player is limited though
if you really work on vms you need VMware workstation, and that's not cheap
 
9:12 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Yes but they don't have the same use cases
 
@ParkYoung-Bae I also read about that, yes.
 
@BartekBanachewicz well yes I just need an OS and compilers on my vms
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yep. Which limitations are a problem for you though?
 
no idea what your needs are :D
 
@jalf snapshots
 
9:12 AM
ah :)
 
and I remember player missing just tiny little things I was used to in Workstation
but admittedly that was quite some time ago
 
right now I'm using a debian vm to develop stuff that's to be ported on raspbian once I get a pi
that's the kind of thing I do with vms
 
I migrated to VBox because it seems to work with everything nowadays, has excellent multi-screen support and in general is reliable and works ok
I've heard VMware was pushing their 3D support, but I never got around to trying it
I kind of lost interest when I saw how much Oracle offers for free
 
tbh I think they've designed vmware player pretty well to target basic usage scenarios
 
Yeah I don't think Player is bad software by any means.
 
9:15 AM
But yeah, if you need more fancy features it won't cut it
 
wait, wait wait.
there's software that isn't bad?
 
no
all software is bad
 
infinite_loop:
    goto infinite_loop
^ not bad
provably no bugs
 
terrible
 
Why are you in the software industry if all software is bad?
 
9:24 AM
-3
Q: first formal parameter to 'operator new' must be 'size_t'

user3490546i am getting this error "first formal parameter to 'operator new' must be 'size_t'" when i try to compile smth like this: void* operator new(MyStd::UInt); I use visual studio 2013 express running on a 64 bit machine. Does anyone know, why this error occurs? If you need further information, ...

 
the software I write today is never bad
only the one I wrote yesterday
 
holy shit, that's such a bad question.
 
@FredOverflow because I found it interesting
 
> If you need further information, pls let me know...this project is huge!
 
it's HUGE
 
9:27 AM
That's what she said.
I should probably sleep. night.
 
Software developement is one of worst regulated instustries
 
lol
 
@FredOverflow if all software is bad, that means virtually anything you do is an improvement. :)
 
@LukaRahne k
 
@jalf :)
 
9:28 AM
It is legal, to sell software that doesnt even work wihout any consequences.
Try to make electronic device that doesnt work or has and security issues
 
the difference is that you can make an electronic device that does work and doesn't have security issues.
 
@LukaRahne Of course, otherwise no-one would be selling any software.
 
it's realistically impossible to produce software of any substantial scale that has no bugs.
 
37
Q: How to take a cold shower

FlimzyThis is a question that most people probably never think about, because it's an every-day thing. But for many of us, such as myself, who grew up in more western cultures, with more modern conveniences, visiting places that don't have hot water can be quite an adjustment, perhaps even more diffic...

man, it would be impossible for me to stay in a place with no hot water :\
 
It is not
Software ce be provably correct
*can be
 
9:31 AM
Not in the general case though
 
@LukaRahne Non trivial software cannot.
 
But still we get much worse solutions
 
you're talking about ultra-correct software in an industry where people are more and more used to getting daily updates
gg
 
@LukaRahne Only for trivial software.
 
seL4 micro kernel is being released open source tmrrw, complete with formal proof in Isabelle/HOL and Haskell. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/28/aussie_droneprotecting_hackerdetecting_kernel_goes_open_source/
go fish, Griwes.
 
9:32 AM
I mean, the correctness is sometimes (a.k.a. rarely) provable, but no-one would ever try to analyze non trivial things.
 
> * That's bug free according to the formal verification of its specification; design flaws in the specs aren't counted by the team.
so basically, it's not bug free at all.
 
Back in old days there used to be time where software was reliesed discettes only. Wihout any updates. Version 1.0
 
@Puppy that's not what the "formally proven" means, no.
 
@LukaRahne my point exactly
 
@BartekBanachewicz but it's still relevant. A formal proof of software's correctness doesn't guarantee that it will work.
 
9:33 AM
it's so easy today to release software with bugs and fix it the next day via updates that extreme QA is not exactly worthwhile
we don't deliver software on diskettes anymore
 
@LukaRahne How can we mitigate the problem? Fire the bottom 90% of software professionals and replace them with stackoverflow rep whores?
 
@jalf well Griwes hinted at the fact that the correctness is not provable
and I just had that link at hand
 
And just recently i have migrated old win 95 machin running some accounting software for samll firm on dosbox that is still in use and working just fine
 
@BartekBanachewicz So, basically, they've proven that the microkernel is correct; doesn't tell much about all the software that composes the system.
 
also I think it's easier to create flawless specs than write flawless code
 
9:34 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I'm merely pointing out that it clearly doesn't mean anything useful.
 
@Griwes stop moving the goalposts.
 
@LukaRahne What are you going to do next? Upgrade to Visual Studio 6.0?
 
Dont talk about spec
natural language is never specific enough
 
@Puppy right. Don't worry, one day you'll understand
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's not moving the goalposts. He originally stated "non-trivial". I figure that a microkernel only could be trivial.
 
9:35 AM
(I'm with @Puppy on this one)
 
oh, bold statements being made
I'd happily engage in this discussion but I'm kinda busy right now
 
<cue lady gaga song>
 
A microkernel falls into my definition of "trivial" here, because while it requires properly designing things to work, when you have everything figured out, implementing it is relatively trivial compared to the vast majority of software that exists nowadays.
 
@LukaRahne Name one piece of non-trivial software with a provably correct spec.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't think it can get anywhere tbh
it's stuck in the past
like Luka, it seems
 
9:36 AM
ITT @BartekBanachewicz has no clue microkernels are microscopic
 
That wasnt my statement
 
@Griwes "relatively trivial compared to...." is a kind of weird definition of the word "trivial"
@Griwes ITT not this again
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Not all software is bad.
 
@jalf I dunno, I feel that "trivial" can be normally considered to be relative.
 
ASIB
 
9:37 AM
@jalf Dunno about L4 specifically, but but there really isn't much that goes in a microkernel itself.
 
user1804599
cat(1) has never failed on me.
 
@rightfold Right. There's also horrible software.
 
@rightfold can you name something that isn't? :)
 
Formal proofs are most useful for critical software
 
Yes.
 
9:37 AM
@rightfold what does that do?
 
user1804599
It concatenates files.
 
user1804599
RTFM.
 
@TonyTheLion cat the command line utility. he just added (1) to disambiguate from The Cat
 
oh lol
The Cat isn't software
 
Here where I live, software is excluded from products that has to have gaurantty of working flawlessly.
 
9:39 AM
You seem to believe this statements follows your original statement about selling software.
 
quite reasonably, since nobody could ever create software systems on our current scale that work flawlessly.
 
Tip: it doesn't, because no-one sane will guarantee you that any non absolutely-mission-critical software is flawless.
 
@LukaRahne probably because software is so different from other products
 
Why?
for instance from buiding
making large scale scity
 
Building is a millenia-old discipline
 
9:40 AM
And yet, buildings still get bugs, even now.
 
buiding cars?
 
it's not the age that matters.
 
user1804599
@LukaRahne for (instance <- building) making large scala city
 
Age does help
 
or medicine
 
9:41 AM
building is easy because you can have a computer easily check your design, and the laws of engineering never change.
 
@LukaRahne yes, it's different from building
 
and medicine is far from flawless... very far.
 
@LukaRahne Also buggy.
 
even if you only take the flexibility into account
how hard is it to revert a building to an earlier state when you see a problem in the building process?
 
medicin is at leaste tested before putting on market
 
9:41 AM
compare that to how easy it is to revert to an earlier commit for example
 
@LukaRahne most products don't have such a guarantee afaik
 
@LukaRahne So is software.
the difference is that nobody can define software tests that work on more than one software application at a time.
 
Ell
I don't think building is easy
 
every app has to have its own independent tests.
 
Its not about being easy
its about being reliable and having no bugs
 
9:43 AM
@LukaRahne medical software follows the same regulatory framework as medicine, and is subject to testing requirements as part of that
 
this is up to software architect, not obligatory by law or some obligatory standard
 
user1804599
<input class="btn btn-primary btn-lg" type="reset" value="Reset" />
<input class="btn btn-danger btn-xs" type="submit" value="Save" />
 
@jaif jes it is
 
@LukaRahne That's because there's no standard that could reasonably apply to software.
 
*yes
 
user1804599
9:43 AM
The save button overwrites existing data, so it's dangerous!
 
@LukaRahne That is the case for most products. There are specific industries that are subject to further requirements (such as healthcare), but there is no inherent law in any country I know of that "a product must be tested before it is sold regardless of what the product is"
 
most industries are way more regulated than software
 
Ell
But if you want people to buy your software you will make sure it has no bugs
especially in the medical sector
 
@LukaRahne lol
 
9:45 AM
lol no.
 
@LukaRahne [citation needed]
 
if you want people to buy your software you will try and reduce the number of serious bugs.
 
@Ell hahahah, good one
 
user1804599
Software's existence is a bug in itself.
 
1) Why the hell would non critical software be highly regulated?
2) Nope.
 
9:45 AM
Software in the medical sector is buggy as shit
 
and even then, the prevalence of stuff like Visual Studio tells you that you don't need to be non-buggy to succeed.
 
Most of it is writtten by complete retards
 
@jalf s/in the medical sector//
 
But it is tested!
 
I work in medicine. Most of the software here runs on Windows 98.
 
9:46 AM
Oh jalf <3
 
Not even Windows XP.
 
> A great opportunity for a C++ STL C#.NET SQL Developer
 
We upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows 7 last year actually.
 
hmmm..
 
@Puppy do eeeeet
 
9:46 AM
But a lot of the stuff is still stuck in Windows 98 land with incredibly old software.
 
so jou just press ctl+alt+del twice to fix any bug
 
@Rapptz ah, our minimum req is Win XP at least. I don't think we've had any complaints from customers about that
(although all hell would break loose if we stopped supporting XP any time soon)
 
The upgrade from Win98 took a long time lol
I wouldn't wanna work on medical software, sounds like a chore.
 
@FredOverflow F# has -> and <-
 
hmm
I should remove default constructor generation from Wide.
 
9:52 AM
@rightfold I thought you didn't like for comprehensions? ;)
 
user1804599
Why wouldn't I?
 
You mentioned it in a code review in Java Sucks IIIRC.
AID (apparently, I don't)
 
user1804599
I use them where I'd use do notation in Haskell, except I don't use the I/O and State monads in Scala.
 
debugging deadlocks on gpu is fun
 
@ParkYoung-Bae You have weird definitions of "fun".
 
user1804599
9:54 AM
@FredOverflow I initially wrote this as a for comprehension but I figured having two functions would be clearer code.
 
@rightfold I like that you can use "extractor patterns" or whatever they're called with for comprehensions.
 
fun: somthing that takes 1week but no progress
 
PMFINAE, remember? ;)
 
@Rapptz It has its ups and downs. :p
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Yeah, but failure ignores it or something dunno how that works.
 
user1804599
9:55 AM
Like fail in Haskell.
 
user1804599
So it's not exactly like a bunch of flatMaps and map.
 
@FredOverflow pointer-to-member-function is not an error? I disagree.
 
user1804599
Pattern match failure.
 
user1804599
It's a very bad idea.
 
10:07 AM
ergh... what a morning
 
seems to be the same as every other morning to me.
 
try getting a job :'(
 
I am working on it
but hey, listen to this.
To apply, you will demonstrate:

-Knowledge of a C++
-Recent bachelors level degree in a Computer Science or related discipline (HND is fine)
-Excellent written and verbal communication skills
check, check, and check.
 
Is it normal to ask for a ‘recent’ diploma?
 
it is for entry-level positions.
 
10:19 AM
Oh ya that makes sense.
 
do eeeeet
 
@Puppy ¬_¬ you never finished man... and most of the time you come across like an utter arse. Fair enough, maybe you know how to act politely when it's required and just relax here.
 
wat?
oh, it says there that HND (2-year cert, which I have), is fine.
 
@Puppy vOv Degree trumps HND
 
fuck that
apply
and see if they call you for an interview
 
10:23 AM
going to because it's a great fit.
 
you're smarter and know more than shitheads with a degree who can only make coffee shop apps in Java
@thecoshman Excellent written and verbal communication skills is something generic that everyone seems to add to their postings anyway
 
> Excellent communication skills
not sure "build yourself a coffin" counts
OHAI
 
@Puppy oh sure, apply any way
hell, apply to senior positions even
 
10:29 AM
@AlexM. woah there nelly, his head is fucking big enough as it is!
 
ow fuck my shoulders
 
lol
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You never have to guess what Puppy thinks about things.
 
@JohanLarsson :D
@Puppy #nothx
 
@Griwes I see. Interesting PoV.
 
10:34 AM
s/PoV/vOv/
 
@thecoshman HND sounds like some kind of medical condition
 
I feel like buying an Arduino.
 
@Puppy "a C++"
also I am not sure about your communication skills
 
lol I hadn't noticed that.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz It's called "Robot's Disease"
 
10:35 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I didn't even spot that -.-
what's wrong with me
 
I kinda did but didn't give it much attention
I thought of "learn you a C++"
 
what's wrong with you
 
@Xeo But it looks fun.
 
@Puppy FYI I had every one of 18 requirements for Thalmic. I still haven't applied :|
 
Xeo
Building my own automatic mahjong table also looks fun
 
10:36 AM
I'm too scared to apply there.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Well you're a sissy
 
I answered an Arduino question a couple minutes ago w/o owning the thing.
Googling is apparently hard.
 
@Xeo I know.
I just don't feel like I'm on Du Toit level yet :P
 
Xeo
You don't have to be... ?
Banachesissy
 
STOP TALKING REASON TO ME
 
10:37 AM
@BartekBanachewicz that myo armband looks cool
 
@AlexM. Mine was supposed to ship this week :F
I've been waiting for like 2 years now
 
Xeo
No application, no Myo
 
@Xeo that pours all the things into a central bit, shuffles and then deals?
 
@Xeo I've applied for early dev access and didn't get it :(
 
Xeo
10:38 AM
@thecoshman The collection is done manually
 
@Xeo fail
waste of time
I'm out
pull the plug
 
@Puppy I trust your communication skills, prolly not worth much cos I'm a furringer :)
 
@thecoshman you push the pieces into the giant hole in the middle
 
Xeo
but yeah, shuffles, flips to the correct side, builds the walls, and then deals
 
@BartekBanachewicz see above
 
Xeo
10:39 AM
@thecoshman It's just shoving tiles to the middle of the table :P
 
BTW @Xeo do those tables have two sets of pieces going in circular?
 
Xeo
yes
 
I wasn't sure if I saw that correctly in the video
 
Xeo
you play the next round while the other set shuffles / is set up
 
@Xeo fuck. that. shit.
 
10:39 AM
how long do those rounds take?
 
@Xeo oh, sneaky
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Can vary by a lot
 
In descriptive statistics, a box plot or boxplot is a convenient way of graphically depicting groups of numerical data through their quartiles. Box plots may also have lines extending vertically from the boxes (whiskers) indicating variability outside the upper and lower quartiles, hence the terms box-and-whisker plot and box-and-whisker diagram. Outliers may be plotted as individual points. Box plots display variation in samples of a statistical population without making any assumptions of the underlying statistical distribution: box plots are non-parametric. The spacings between the different...
 
Xeo
The quickest round (counting from the moment the hands are done picking up) can last just 10 seconds or so
 
lol
"haha I win"
 
Xeo
10:41 AM
if a player is dealt a finished hand, yeah
 
i suppose that's rare
 
Xeo
if all players discard the same wind tile on the first turn, the round ends in a draw
that's another very short one
 
It's a shame you need vPro for TSX-NI by the way /cc @Mysticial
 
@Xeo d'you have a set of tiles?
 
5
A: Ask how to pronounce advisor's last name?

espertusI agree with the direct approach in the other answer, but if you'd like an indirect approach (that can be done before a first meeting), try calling the professor's office phone number when you know he or she is not there and listening to how the name is pronounced on voice mail.

 
Xeo
10:46 AM
@thecoshman Ye, very basic ones
 
also, ffs:
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I m debugging execution time like this. I will try to paste some parts of code guys then. Ty for help — user3804906 8 mins ago
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
goes up to Professor Hughes "So I pronounce your name .... 'Hello'.."? — Lightness Races in Orbit 21 secs ago
 
nice
Hasklig now features Powerline symbols /cc @sehe @R.MartinhoFernandes
So I've opened my new codebase
void Foo::initWithResourcesPath(std::string* resourcesPath)
Give me my effing hammer
 
@BartekBanachewicz but then everything will look like a nail!
 
10:56 AM
everything is a nail in this code
std::vector<Face*> *outputVector = new std::vector<Face*>();
funny enough at other places const std::string& is used
 
@StackedCrooked Coliru is down?
 

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