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12:00 PM
 
@MartinJames Wow!
@MartinJames In my city there are no such places :(
 
@Ockonal That's rather sad:( Where are you?
 
@MartinJames Ukraine, Kiev
 
I'm back.
 
@Ockonal There are no beer gardens in Kiev?
 
12:06 PM
@MartinJames Nope
@MartinJames Anyway, I don't drink alcohol. But the place on picture is very nice
Btw, the right form is "on picture" or "at picture" ?
 
@DeadMG Hi! You missed a prime binning opportunity.
 
@Ockonal In the picture.
 
Okay, thanks.
 
@Ockonal 'in picture' or, more correctly 'in the picture' ;)
 
@MartinJames Excuse me whilst tears roll down my face.
 
12:07 PM
@MartinJames That looks cosy
I should come visit you
 
@Ockonal You are a developer and you don't drink alcohol? How do you remain sane?
 
@MartinJames Lol :) Yeah, I like sport and don't like drinking and smoking
 
@rightfold that is an awesome idea
 
@MartinJames Btw, from what country you are? I wonder where is such nice pictures
 
yay druggles.
 
12:11 PM
@Ockonal UK, in the 'Midlands' - near the city of Derby, (RR, JCB).
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey I do not think the client will like it. :v
 
Sure they will. I think I'd appreciate the irony if I had a broken bone.
 
:)
Only I just really like the idea of virtual desktop workspaces?
 
What was /that/ in reply to
 
what's /that/ ?
 
12:20 PM
I just can't get used to that /i/ syntax
@Abyx like * italic * for sehe
 
@Ockonal I don't think we have something like this as well.
 
@Ockonal What do you mean?
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah:) You not coming to Berlin?
 
Xeo
wat
9
 
@MartinJames Aaah, the Midlands- all the civilization and economic output of Middle Earth.
 
12:25 PM
@DeadMG I may be a Hobbit - I don't wear shoes very often:)
 
@Xeo what? so you guys don't wear plugs?
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked only with a cat tail
 
that's pretty fucked up
 
Anyway, time for a shower. The Vernon beckons....
 
@Xeo o god..
 
12:27 PM
guys
Birthday Races in Orbit
 
@Jefffrey I mean virtual workspaces. Instead of folding windows in one desktop, you have a few desktops
 
@Ockonal just buy more screens /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
..and get more eyes:)
 
I see
 
12:29 PM
So, instead of folding windows you can switch between desktops
 
@FredOverflow IIRC Scott also did a talk on D.
 
sorry but I don't have actual robot's setup linked anywhere handy
 
@BartekBanachewicz Blitheness Braces in Riot
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's 'cos it's difficult to get a lens with a wide-enough angle.
 
12:42 PM
holy shit, the feels
anyone saw "Her"?
 
Nope
 
@Jefffrey no
i only saw first 5 minutes of so
 
oh, didn't like them?
 
then I switched back to anime
@Jefffrey nah. but maybe I should give it a proper chance.
 
12:49 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit so now you're really old, huh?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit your bday today? cheers mate
 
22 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Birthday Races in Orbit
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit happy lightnessday
 
So can anyone get to the review page on SO, or is it just me?
 
12:57 PM
you're the chosen one
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit How many lightyears have ye become?
 
@sehe I have 3000 rep (3093)
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
ok, so now it works. I'm not going to worry about it, might be a fluke with some network.
 
user1804599
1:00 PM
CPS is so nice.
2
 
@rightfold BS.
 
user1804599
Generating CPS code.
 
user1804599
Fuck writing it manually.
 
coroutines are nice, and CPS is not
 
user1804599
You can emulate coroutines through CPS!
 
1:01 PM
no I cannot do such stupid thing
 
user1804599
It's not stupid.
 
user1804599
In fact, it's the only option in my case.
 
it is stupid. CPS is garbage, coroutines ftw.
@rightfold sucks to be you
 
we're all using design patterns
sudden realization
language features are design patterns
 
now I'm depressed, thanks
 
1:04 PM
CPR rocks
 
i mean, they are low-level patterns of processing information
so common that they appear as built-in features into some languages
 
@BartekBanachewicz nooooooooooooooooooooo! Prometheus! Give it back! Now!
 
is prometheus the one about the cave?
 
he stole the fire from the gods
and gave it to humanity
 
@BartekBanachewicz yep it was written in GoF
 
1:05 PM
for that he was condemned and bound to a rock
 
@Jefffrey I'd go Socratic on that one. But I'm lazy: Plato
 
@Abyx funny enough then, our language choices are based a lot on the design patterns that are provided within a certain language
or are easily implementable as a library in one.
 
user1804599
@Abyx not really.
 
user1804599
This is fun.
 
that might explain why js is so popular: it makes it very easy to add very different patterns to it
 
1:07 PM
@rightfold yeah I know some people think that sucking nasty things is fun
 
@sehe oh right
 
user1804599
Basically, I can emulate coroutines in JavaScript by transforming all function calls to CPS.
 
OTOH, C# comes with a ton of patterns builtin, but it's not necessarily easy to add other ones to it
 
user1804599
Then you can do AJAX calls without writing callbacks.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It isn't? C# has lambas and async await by now. Compare with Java. Also, LINQ is not far away from coroutines
 
user1804599
1:08 PM
Or have functions like WaitForClick(button).
 
so the strive for improvements in PLT should concentrate on languages that on one hand are safe and well-designed so they don't fall apart like JS, and on the other hand allow implementing different patterns as libraries
 
user1804599
And function async(fun, next) { fun(function() {}); next(); }.
 
@rightfold you know in JS there is jQuery
 
@sehe but it was added later to the language. You couldn't implement them as libraries
Anyway, concluding, we should all be using Haskell.
Thank you.
 
user1804599
@Abyx Indeed, and jQuery requires explicit CPS.
 
user1804599
1:09 PM
And explicit CPS is cancer.
 
user1804599
You need code generation for this.
 
@rightfold uhm.. I wouldn't call fun1().fun2() CPS
 
user1804599
Show me how to do an AJAX call with jQuery without writing callbacks.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ah. That's a totally different thing. Remember, you're in the lounge. You should try to say what you mean
 
callbacks != CPS
 
user1804599
1:11 PM
Oh, an async one.
 
user1804599
Because sync AJAX sucks.
 
@sehe I wasn't sure what I meant. I was thinking out loud.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Because, in Haskell anything is hard :) But you don't need to add anything
@BartekBanachewicz Nice. I'll await the signal next time
 
user1804599
@Abyx But CPS is implemented using callbacks in XMLHttpRequest and jQuery.
 
@sehe Well, Functors, Monads, Applicatives et al are technically libraries.
 
user1804599
1:12 PM
I want to write this:
 
IIRC the language that wanted to have evertyhing as libraries was...
now.. fuck i remember the name
 
user1804599
var response = doAJAXCall(request);
foo(response);
 
user1804599
To be translated into this:
 
user1804599
doAJAXCall(request, function(response) { foo(response, function() {}); }
 
1:13 PM
yes, it was Scheme.
Now I understand why it's praised so much in PLT community
 
@BartekBanachewicz PHP?
 
it's about possibilities of implementing and using design patterns
 
@sehe 75,000 lightyears
 
it was only ever about that
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey PHP has e.g. classes as language feature.
 
user1804599
1:14 PM
The point would be having them as library feature.
 
user1804599
But you need a sufficiently flexible language for that.
 
how..
 
ugh, that imgur post where someone announces he's become an American citizen, cue about 200 comments exclaiming "congratulations!" "Yeahhh!" "Well done! Welcome!!!" as if he's just started dating a supermodel or something. Anywhere else it would be like "ok... um, great? nice one. what do you do?"
 
I can't conceive the idea
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey By being sufficiently flexible.
 
user1804599
1:15 PM
JavaScript and Lua come pretty close.
 
javascript already has objects
and functions
 
user1804599
You need some primitives anyway.
 
user1804599
No matter what.
 
of course
but having objects and functions basically means having classes
you just need some sort of protection and you are done
 
user1804599
Not really.
 
user1804599
1:16 PM
You can implement classes in terms of them.
 
user1804599
You can also do prototypical object-orientation in terms of them.
 
user1804599
Or structs and multimethods.
 
user1804599
Or whatever you want.
 
@Jefffrey not really. Take a look at Lua's "object" model for example
 
never took a look at Lua
 
1:18 PM
you can implement polymorphic inheritance chains or prototypal designs and whatnot
@Jefffrey ah, you see, it's a very interesting language even if only from the design standpoint
I love academic languages.
And Lua and Haskell are academic languages that are actually practical to use.
 
user1804599
My Styx idea from a few weeks back was flexible.
 
user1804599
All you had was hash tables and multimethods.
 
Your idea about styx being based on a Lua VM was probably the smartest one
in general making Lua dialects is fairly easy
I think that implementing a Lua interpreter in Haskell could be an interesting thing to do
or in Lua itself, while we're at it
 
eh
 
@BartekBanachewicz seems like a pretty standard imperative object oriented language
 
1:21 PM
I don't fundamentally feel like Lua is a useful language for building applications in.
 
from the hello world
unless io is not an object
 
it's one thing to throw together a quick script to grep some files or something, and another to actually do heavy lifting
 
What's academical about Lua?
 
it's created in academy
 
@Jefffrey it's neither inherently imperative nor object-oriented
 
user1804599
1:22 PM
There wouldn't be types. You'd just have a __type__ key on hash tables by convention.
 
ы
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It was an academia research project.
 
also why print is like a free function and read is inside this io thing?
 
user1804599
Overloading proper-subtype? allows for subtyping.
 
@BartekBanachewicz More like, lack of design standpoint.
 
user1804599
1:22 PM
With virtual types that don't really exist!
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey It sucks if you have to import something when you want to inspect a value while debugging.
 
@Jefffrey it's an alias/wrapper for io.write IIRC
 
I like wrappers
 
user1804599
I like wraps
 
@DeadMG I've done a reasonably-large thing in it and it was OK. It was my research project in ADVA.
I did it in a rather typical inheritance-based scheme back then
nowadays I would probably use way more functional paradigms
 
1:25 PM
@rightfold I like ps
 
@BartekBanachewicz how is it now imperative?
 
it's a useful tool
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked You like CP.
 
cp?
the copy file command?
 
I'm bored. Holidays that sneak up on you like this suck.
 
1:26 PM
@DeadMG it's one way to disagree with the design choices (which is OK, but not very wise considering the fact that in its desired place, it found its niche) and the completely different thing to try to devaluate the design effort in it (which is just lame)
 
it's a holiday?
 
@Jefffrey well, okay, it is imperative, but has very strong trends from other paradigms
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked ask for it on /b/.
 
hm...
 
The house is deserted!
 
1:28 PM
lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz Devaluate?
 
the house turned into a sahara
 
@DeadMG de·val·ue, damnit.
 
well, I'm not devaluing the design effort in it- it was designed to be a configuration language and it serves that purpose just fine.
 
1:30 PM
configuration and scripting.
 
which brings us back to the age-old problem of "define script".
 
there's no clear definition
hence you might well say it's a GP language and be done with it
 
right.
 
@DeadMG it dates back to ancient Egypt
 
and again, I made a few applications ground-up in Lua and they worked just fine
because there's no reason why they shouldn't
heck, if people can make C applications working, nothing will amaze me
 
1:32 PM
@BartekBanachewicz People do that in Java and PHP and, wait for it, Ruby as well.
Who wants to play some Civ4?
 
no decent resource handling, tiny standard library, terrible API, global variables as faux modules, lack of static typing
 
yeah, that's why I am saying that puppy's preconceived statement about Lua being unfeasible for development is nothing but a personal rant
 
by "preconceived" do you mean "I spent three years working in the language"?
 
How can you all know every language?
 
because if so, that's an interesting definition of preconception.
 
1:33 PM
@DeadMG ooh
 
@DeadMG it has GC finalizers, it has ways to load C libraries which makes it irrelevant, API quality is subjective, global variables work differently than in other languages and static typing quality is also debatable (hence your personal rant)
 
i sense a fight
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Remember: Lua is not C++-like.
3
 
@JohanLarsson I only know some five languages really well.
 
@JohanLarsson what, I barely know cpp
 
user1804599
1:34 PM
(So it sucks.)
 
@rightfold oh pardon me I forgot again.
 
@Jefffrey yeah preprocessor is tricky
 
thanks for the tip.
 
user1804599
rightfold rules the board of stars.
 
you can't load arbitrary C libraries from Lua.
unless they changed a lot since I last had a look.
 
1:35 PM
I can, maybe you can't.
 
only if someone explicitly wrapped it for you.
 
meh, just use Alien.
 
and GC finalizers are certainly not the same as real resource handling.
 
yeah not C++ like, amiright?
 
and what the hell do you even mean that globals work differently?
they're global, and they're mutable.
 
1:36 PM
because C++ is, you know, real world
nevermind the fact you're not even working on any real-world application
 
You're not helping my boredom.
Damn you guys.
 
it's too funny.
 
Can't count on you for anything.
 
ah, so we're back to ad hominem/insults now.
 
sorry robot, I can imagine puppy being a C++ fanboy is a stale thing already
 
1:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've been working on Itanium ABI exception handling, so it's not really something you discuss for amusement.
 
@DeadMG we're back to "you can't or choose to not understand shit from what people are telling you because you're a C++ fanboy", yes
 
> How can I do something like gf, but in a new vertical split?
I asked this on SO once.
 
like a girlfriend but in a vertical split?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you may find this to be mildly interesting.
 
@DeadMG so is arbitrary program memory in any language if you try hard enough. So?
 
1:38 PM
but if you're desperate for amusement
you could always lend me a hand with it.
 
you're trying to find nonexisting problems in a language you already concluded can't function because you said so
I would know, again, I've done this shit for years
now I am saving it for Ruby only
which I guess I should stop doing soon and just learn the fucking language //cc @Jefffrey
 
Don't bother learning Ruby.
 
yeah, I was watching
 
@StackedCrooked It only reminds me that I haven't GMed anything in a while.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes At least no one will be able to say that I've never used it. Isn't that a reason enough?
 
1:40 PM
I had a nice campaign idea the other day.
 
man
why did I uninstall all of my games.
 
Our session was pretty cool recently.
 
campaign?
 
@JohanLarsson RPG
 
@DeadMG I installed all of my games!
 
1:41 PM
lol
 
I installed Hearthstone on my iPad!
(it's way better on a touchscreen)
 
the problem with trying to both work and game on the same machine is that whenever anything, ever, distracts you from work, it's too easy to load up any game instead of getting on with it
 
hint: it's the problem with you, not with the machine
 
@DeadMG Install Linux, you won't have any games to play. :)
 
Gf thought I should try the vacuum cleaner today #cruel experiment
 
1:42 PM
@VáclavZeman KSP runs on Linux.
 
that being said, I am also easily distracted
 
(And it's far from the one example)
 
@VáclavZeman Nor will I have any decent development environments.
installing Linux would just make my computer useless for everything.
 
@JohanLarsson I am kind of afraid to ask what are you trying to do with this poor home cleaning appliance.
 
I'd rather have the problem of it being useful for too much.
 
1:43 PM
thecosh plays KSP on Linux all the time, AFAIR.
 
@DeadMG you could run coliru on it :P
 
lol
 
What is KSP?
 
Kerbal space program
 
@BartekBanachewicz nothing fancy, just the standard grind :)
 
1:43 PM
Ah.
 
ah yes KSP
 
KSP is shitless expensive from what I've seen
 
I spent like, two hours scanning Duna for Kethane, only to realize that setting up an extra-Kerbin launch site there wouldn't be worth the hassle.
 
I'd rather stick to 2€ iPad games I guess
 
@BartekBanachewicz It brings hours of fun!
 
1:45 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes so does hearthstone, which is free
also KSP is a hardcore game
and I can't imagine myself playing anything that requires me to power up more than 120 brain cells (and sit on a chair, while we're at it)
hence it's mostly FTL recently
 
@BartekBanachewicz How is that relevant?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes okey, it might be not. It's hot here and I want to go home.
 
If I followed that logic I would never ever buy any game for any price because NetHack is free and it brought me years of fun.
 
Is there a way to increase playback speed on channel 9? (Without downloading)
 
1:51 PM
@jalf I don't even.
 
@jalf ahahahahhahah oh my rotfl god
I knew that MSVS loads iexplorer
but the compiler, it's just too funny
 
Friend of mine would like help with this survey on SO. I don't really know them but it's really short and I said I'd ask. Please do it as a birthday gift :) 2 mins max docs.google.com/forms/d/…
 
This is hilarious. http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/03/31/you-got-your-web-browser-in-my-compiler/
here, in easily retweetable format :D
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's gotta be the lousiest birthday gift I've seen.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're free to send me a better one :P
 
1:56 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit last question should really be changed to read "reputation" instead of "score"
 
@BartekBanachewicz yes
like I said I don't really know them but I feel like being helpful
 
> Windows was reporting that the compiler was not running its message pump. This immediately brought up the question of why does the compiler have a message pump!
 
So what's your SO score again, Bartek? Is it 112,648?
 
user1804599
Stop bullying Bartak. :(
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that was a scam right?
 
2:10 PM
@Jefffrey no
it's for a research project
 
I'm not going to claim that it appears to be objectively useful for research project or anything like that, but it's cheap to complete and ostensibly helpful to the individual who requested it
 
Where are the results?
 
it's not a community poll, @Johan :P
it's someone's internet field work
 
think I read that the results would be shown in the end
 
2:11 PM
they asked where they could post to get more SO participation so I said I know just the place
@JohanLarsson the end of the project, I imagine
then I'll see wha tI can do
 
ok not very important
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit can't fill it anymore :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes At least they didn't try if (x > MAX_INT) like PHP guys
 
Fuck it. I'm going outside. No idea what I'll do but whatever.
6
 
2:25 PM
Walking is less boring than sitting.
 
good idea...??!
 
:effort:
 
Oh FFS it's not gonna start raining NOW, is it?
Fuck you, Universe.
 
you can walk in rain, the trees starts to smell good then
 
2:28 PM
don't you wish you were a flower or a piece of grass ... you would love it then ...
 
Stay in play games
 
.^_^.
 
Lol
When I focused on this chat I didn't imagine that I will see something like this
Okay, guys. I'm leaving the office. Have a nice weekend.
 
2:44 PM
It's been a terribly boring weekend so far.
 
why not work?
 
Intelligent people are happier - they know how to find happiness!
for example, you can troll meta, starting a thread on something like "what's the percentage of overweight unicorns" or "Is the level of skill inversely proportional to obedience"
remember: there are many fun things in life & only one you, it is awfully harder for fun thing to find you than for you to find one interesting thing to do
 
What are you? A self-help book writer?
@JohanLarsson A sequence of adventures for a tabletop roleplaying game.
1 hour ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Who wants to play some Civ4?
 
Self help book writer wants your $, I am helping out for free :p
 
o_O
 

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