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4:37 AM
Can I get a delete vote or two for this answer? stackoverflow.com/a/42942300/1290634
 
 
6 hours later…
10:57 AM
@DirkEddelbuettel We just need WRE updated to narrow the original scope of Suggests (run-time suggestions). Then a patch for a new tag (like Gabor's DevImports). It seems like there is basic agreement on that.
 
11:28 AM
@Thomas R / CRAN have traditionally followed Debian nomenclatura so it would be Build-Depends. Which I have argued for years. But alas.... Good luck getting it in. It would help.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:09 PM
I'll say I can understand Dirk's frustration on this issue but I also don't think skipping the test if the package to run the test isn't available. Moving the packages that are just used for testing to Depends doesn't make sense to me either though since in some cases the package isn't necessary for using the package as is and why should that burden be placed on users that aren't going to run the tests?
 
 
1 hour later…
2:25 PM
@Dason Exactly. Nothing makes sense.
2
 
Pretty much
That's why I just say stick everything in depends and don't write tests at all. Now everybody is happy. I'm sure that's something everybody can agree on.
 
@Dason Oh you can stick everything in depends and write tests though, that works fine.
/ignores user sarcasm
 
That's ridiculous. If I'm going to write tests then everything goes in suggests. Best of both worlds.
I'm like 99% confident this is the approach Dirk is advocating too.
 
2:43 PM
@Dason And now I can finally say I am part of the 1%.
 
Gotcha - you're even more strict. Everything in Suggests ALWAYS. I knew it.
 
Just add CRAN::* to Imports:
Ooh, Bob M on the tidyverse: r4stats.com/2017/03/23/the-tidyverse-curse
 
Can we call CRAN::* the "messyverse"
2
 
Given that the "tidyverse" favours narrow, normalised data frames, anything that isnt tidyverse should be wideyverse
4
 
That. Is. Fantastic.
Have a star!
 
3:49 PM
I like calling CRAN the "hey, it just works"-verse better.
Contrasts nicely with the "yes, sure, it is currently breaking your old code but we only do that because it is better for your" mode over in whateververse.
 
Meanwhile, here in the snideyverse...
 
How's your Apache Snark cluster humming along?
 
Needs more megaflaps
 
4:10 PM
I'm pretty sure there's a tidyverse package for that
 
 
1 hour later…
5:31 PM
@DirkEddelbuettel I think that is the simple solution. What is practically needed for that to happen? I assume the issue is it affects install.packages(), R CMD check, and numerous other parts of R in opaque ways?
 
 
1 hour later…
6:54 PM
@Thomas I don't know. I think the general advice is to find an R Core member who champions the change. I don't see too many of them lining up yet ...
 
7:23 PM
I'm wondering what the age distribution of R-core is...
 
7:38 PM
Brought to you by set.seed(123); plot(density(c(rnorm(10, 70, 10), rnorm(10, 40, 10))), main="Age Distribution", xlab="")
 
@DirkEddelbuettel Who's the guy/gal over 100?
 
@BrodieG spoiler: its not a gal (p<0.001)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:13 PM
Was this @DirkEddelbuettel in disguise? stackoverflow.com/questions/43009174/…
 
9:24 PM
I would never threaten bodily harm. I just code around the packages for as long as I can. Which may not be for long because I think what Max et al are doing may be useful. Even if oh so tidy.
 
9:35 PM
@Dason love the "If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question." there
 
@Dason Congrats on getting docstring to CRAN.
 
9:57 PM
@Spacedman i mean, sure, it does sort of do that, but is that a problem? the majority of problems i see in the data.table tag on SO would be one-liners if people had been taught about data normalization. if you're against it, you'll be happy to hear that hadley omitted it from r4ds ... github.com/hadley/r4ds/issues/272
 
@Frank sorry Frank, what's that apropos of?
 
@Spacedman your repeated complaints about long-form data. i think i must be missing something in the joke
 
@Frank not really a complaint.
 
ok, tbh, the only good result i could see coming from the tidyverse is some "wider" familiarity with how to normalize data
 
@Frank my main beef is that ... cleaned up rectangular data is not exactly a novel concept
But is being sold as if mankind just invented the wheel.
 
10:06 PM
@DirkEddelbuettel yeah. nonetheless it seems many r users don't get it, which isn't too surprising considering there are no tutorials on it, even in the 'verse, apart from that one paper that briefly touched on it. (maybe i haven't kept up with recent materials)
and no stats or econometrics courses covered it back in my day; pretty sure they still don't now, outside of a CS databases course
pretty old concept, though, yeah
 
 
1 hour later…
11:10 PM
@DirkEddelbuettel Thanks! I got it through on my first attempt too. For some reason I was thinking I was going to get hit with some Ripley Wrath.
 

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