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8 hours later…
9:13 AM
Is there a special reason forR CMD build to copy an empty pdf vignette (size: 0 kb) to /inst/doc?!
 
 
1 hour later…
10:20 AM
@Spacedman Correct. TIBCO wrote an R interpreter starting from S+ code. It's not GPL and completely proprietary.
Our sources indicate that TIBCO doesn't play with Rcpp (sacrilege) and as a consequence only ~60% of packages run on TERR. Importantly, ggplot2 doesn't run, because of this.
Which for them probably doesn't matter, since TERR is mainly the scripting language for Spotfire, the BI visualization tool they sell.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:51 AM
@Spacedman @Andrie I can confirm that TIBCO doesn't play well with certain packages. In particular, you can't use data.table and dplyr
 
@csgillespie Yes, both has a dependency on Rcpp (or recursive dependency). I think that's the root cause - the problem is somewhere in the tool chain - i.e. Rcpp code doesn't compile in their toolchain.
 
@Andrie I can see that causing them some trouble in the very near future. The company I'm working with prototypes in R and then uploads to Spotfire. It's pretty hard avoiding Rcpp if you are dealing with large data (or even just data).
 
 
1 hour later…
1:17 PM
@csgillespie In that case they should really prototype in TERR rather than R
 
 
1 hour later…
2:18 PM
@Andrie but by definition, it is not R, which was my point. There is one R, the one the R Foundation/R Core produce. Which is why I find it frustrating that some, often those involved in commercialisation of R, refer to it as Open Source R, as if there is some other R.
The discussions about TERR not working with Rcpp etc is just one manifestation of TERR not being R, even if they claim to have reimplemented it.
 
@GavinSimpson But what if a fully-compatible non-R-core R interpreter existed? It would be hard to argue "that's not R", when it does everything R-core R does. It would probably help to make a distinction between R (the code) and R (the language).
 
@JoshuaUlrich I doubt that will ever happen, as R Core keep tinkering with implementational things. We see this with every existing "flavour" of R; they are based on older versions of R and often don't work with more than a fraction of the package on CRAN/Bioconductor.
 
Sure. My question was hypothetical.
 
But you are right, in the longer term.
What I don't find as helpful is the recasting of R (the only thing currently that is R) as "Open Source R".
 
Agreed; that's a bit silly.
 
2:29 PM
@GavinSimpson I understand where you are coming from, and I share your view
 
I'd like to create an R fork and call it OuR, just to see how people try to pronounce it.
 
At the same time, at Revo we had to find a way to distinguish between "Revolution R Enterprise" (RRE) and !RRE, aka open R.
In other words, what is the boundary between GPL and proprietary code
 
R is a language and an environment, after all. So it is difficult to separate those two things when we speak about R. As such, people should refer to the R language when they talk of reimplementations (which Tibco do from what I've seen)
@Andrie Would not RRE != R have been sufficient? Modifying the RHS of that equation seems redundant given that you aren't shipping R. Admittedly you are shipping something close to what R is, plus the extra bells and whistles and the support.
 
We do in fact ship R. Plus a number of packages. And support, as you point out.
But the RRE installer installs R itself.
And the "mods" we publish as source.
It's not mods, really - just extra code in a package that masks a couple of base R functions.
Very similar to how RStudio masks a few base R functions
 
@Andrie Doesn't that make it all the more easy to differentiate RRE from R? You've not reimplemented R for example. Don't mean to dismiss the changes made in RRE but seems odd that recasting R as "Open Source R" was the simple, but incorrect, choice when one is trying to create an impression of what RRE is.
In sum, I mean: recasting R as "Open Source R" doesn't tell me any more about what RRE is or does.
 
2:50 PM
@GavinSimpson But you're not a "business user" :)
 
@JoshuaUlrich No, but Revo would certainly like to court me (or people like me) as I am at an academic institution and they give their product away for free to types like me (or at least they did..?)
 
I meant "business user" as someone who isn't technically sophisticated.
Not necessarily "someone who works at a business"
 
@JoshuaUlrich Ha! I wondered if it was a suggestion that I wouldn't understand the differences because I didn't do business speak...
 
At the workshop I attended, Lou from TIBCO gave me his usual spiel that they would really like me to help them get Rcpp to buidl with TERR.
 
Of course they would.
Did you tell them you would like a pony?
 
2:59 PM
@GavinSimpson Still do
 
@Andrie I thought as much (and whilst its not something I see myself using, I'm sure many academic users are very appreciative that Revo do this).
 
@DirkEddelbuettel What did he offer in return?
 
I'll ride that pony home all the way from the Bay Area. Expect to be back in Chicago by early May.
@Andrie Mostly a nice handshake I think.
 
@DirkEddelbuettel I would have thought it important to TIBCO to put some effort into the Rcpp project to make it worth your while to cooperate...
Sorry, that came out too small. xkcd.com/225
 
@DirkEddelbuettel That is, shall we say, disappointing. Time and effort isn't free.
 
3:16 PM
ICYMI: Alteryx comments on that deal at t.co/J7YRpin5sp
 
@GavinSimpson I did not ask for specifics. They did not offer any. I won't extrapolate.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:23 PM
@csgillespie that was due to import: reshape2. But we don't import it anymore.
 
4:35 PM
In order to address the "open source R" question, I'm losing track of what R is exactly... If it is a language, where is its definition? In the (R-core) sources?
If it is an implementation and environment of a language derived from S and commonly called "R" under copyright of the R Foundation then there is no "non-open source R", only non open source implementations of that language (a language which seems to lack a formal standard definition outside of a particular implementation's source code).
 
Yo
I used to always say 'GNU R'. Only to be politely corrected by Kurt last summer: "We are not 'GNU R'. We are R."
We need to ask him what "we" is.
 
where have I seen "R is GNU 'S'"?
ah yes first paragraph on CRAN
 
5:01 PM
@Arun The version on CRAN still imports reshape2
 
@Andrie yes. I meant to say the next CRAN release won't. It's already done in 1.9.5.
 
@DirkEddelbuettel I had a ski coach who anytime one of us would use "We" like that would respond, "Whaddya mean 'We'? Ya got worms?!"
 
 
4 hours later…
9:08 PM
I do wish new R users would learn to crawl before taking on the Boston marathon:
0
Q: Error in R: x must be numeric

monir uzzamani try to write a program in r "generate a random sample from any distribution using function". but it shows "Error in hist.default(xbars) : 'x' must be numeric" my program is here sim.clt <- function(n, ran.func,..., simsize,...) { xbars<-vector() for(i in 1:simsize=simsize) { x<-funct...

Crap, and now I just realise I may have done someone's homework for them...
 
@GavinSimpson I have sometimes had a hard time convincing beginners that it's ok to stop and confirm that what they're writing does what they think almost on a line by line basis.
3
 

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