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12:00 AM
@sehe Tritonic scale? Seriously?
@Borgleader Knife Party has some real party bangers.
 
@Morwenn Wait what. Did I botch a link?
@Morwenn Also, do you mean octotonic?
 
@sehe I mean there are three fucking notes .___.
 
makes sense
 
@Morwenn Natural harmonics. Makes a lot of sense on natural instruments
Also:
In music theory, the tritone is strictly defined as a musical interval composed of three adjacent whole tones. For instance, the interval from F up to the B above it (in short, F–B) is a tritone as it can be decomposed into the three adjacent whole tones F–G, G–A, and A–B. According to this definition, within a diatonic scale there is only one tritone for each octave. For instance, the above-mentioned interval F–B is the only tritone formed from the notes of the C major scale. A tritone is also commonly defined as an interval spanning six semitones. According to this definition, a diatonic scale...
Not what you thought :)
 
And here I thought it was an animal
 
12:02 AM
A tritonic scale is a musical scale or mode with three notes per octave. This is in contrast to a heptatonic (seven-note) scale such as the major scale and minor scale, or a dodecatonic (chromatic 12-note) scale, both common in modern Western music. Tritonic scales are not common in modern art music, and are generally associated with primitive music. == Distribution == === India === Early Indian Rig Vedic hymns were tri-tonic, sung in three pitches with no octave: Udatta, Anudatta, and Swarita. The "primitive tribes" were noted as playing ditonic, tritonic, and tetratonic music of no re...
@sehe Now I remember why I listen to electronic music.
 
TIL. I know quite a wide spectrum of scales obv.
 
Also the joke falls short because apparently it's "newt" in English
~the more you know~
 
@Morwenn That makes zarroo sense. I should have said "primitive horns"
 
@DmitriBudnikov see I told you
 
12:04 AM
lel
 
@LucDanton You newt and you didn't tell me?
 
Yes. Newts are mandatory.
 
12:15 AM
@DmitriBudnikov re-do it but with a moon of Neptune
 
12:26 AM
Because of you nerds I missed the bus
 
was the schedule in English
 
There's no schedule in HK
There's a headway
Eg "bus every x minutes"
 
The desk is my headway
Oops. It's actually the palm that's headway. Anyways
 
So you have to deduce the schedule from experience essentially
 
here there is an app that has real-time bus tracking
 
12:30 AM
@DmitriBudnikov Neural bus nets
 
@sehe Neurons are all about connections--thus, it's really the "neural net bus system".
 
nerds
 
Nerdal networks.
Ow fuck, I should already be sleeping :/
 
12:56 AM
One amazing thing about anime is that it makes blue hair seem normal.
 
Uh, in my case I've seen enough blue hair IRL for it to be normal.
But still uncommon enough to still feel a bit special :)
 
@StackedCrooked Are you trying to imply that blue hair isn't normal?
 
O noes I triggered a political correctness nerve. Erm, I'm not racist! Yay for blue people!
 
some birds are blue, blue hair feathers are normal
 
Typical Jerry :p
Anyway, good night :)
 
interesting, blue feathers are common but not blue furs ...
 
@Morwenn Good night!
 
very few mammals are blue ... unless living in the ocean
 
@StackedCrooked Thanks ^_^
 
@Morwenn G'night.
 
1:05 AM
Blue food isn't common either (except for waffles).
@JerryCoffin And thanks too :D
 
@Morwenn octopus
 
Someone make a rule message I'm too lazy
 
blue blood because it uses copper ions to carry oxygen instead of iron
 
Do unto others before they can do unto you. What? It's not that simple? Okay, then follow these rules, so others won't do unto you!
15
 
yellow
 
1:14 AM
boldface if possible
 
@Mikhail So I'm remoted into that 44-core/88-thread Broadwell box with 768GB of ram. And I see what's wrong with it.
 
@Mysticial Let me guess, whats wrong with it is it isnt yours?
 
The guy (who doesn't speak English very well) decided it was better to give me remote desktop access than to debug over email.
 
debug over email
fancy ...
 
@Borgleader lol
 
1:21 AM
@Borgleader That too. But even if it was mine, I don't have a good solution to fix it.
In any case...
Windows doesn't play too well with this machine.
 
88 cores....
#threads
do you have to pay extra for that in china lol?
 
That's Japanese
 
rekt
 
@DmitriBudnikov It's Chinese. I don't see any Katakana or Hiragana in there. Also, the bootcfg says zn-CN.
 
Mysticial never fails to bite
 
1:28 AM
:)
 
@Mysticial So, what's the problem?
 
@StackedCrooked Processor groups.
 
Is it the kernel overhead?
 
The Windows scheduler is built around the native word-side. Which is 64 bits.
They use them like flags for scheduling and it's really efficient.
The problem is that it limits the scheduler to 64 cores.
 
Ah :)
 
1:31 AM
So when you have more than 64 cores, Windows splits them up into multiple groups.
Now...
It tries to do it smartly.
It will split them up based on the NUMA. So on this guy's box, he has two 44-vcore chips.
So normally it will have 2 processor groups of 44 cores each.
But NUMA hurts performance in a lot of apps including my Pi program. So (I told him to) turn it off.
via the BIOS.
But now Windows doesn't know about the NUMA.
It sees a single node with 88 vcores.
And it decides to split them up in the dumbest way possible.
Not 44/44. But, 64/24.
This totally fucks up my thread pool which assumes that the processor groups are relatively balanced.
 
@Mysticial So Windows is like: Numa? I know that!
Ok. Dumb joke.
 
Intel's Cilk Plus is smarter about it, but it has other issues.
@StackedCrooked lol
I'm gonna ask this guy to try Linux.
 
IIRC think a standard Linux build doesn't recognize this many core. Might require a kernel build with custom switch.
 
Oh wait. I'll ask him to disable HT. That'll reduce the vcore count below 64.
 
2:03 AM
whatever happened to husky anyway?
 
Another simple thing that does not compile with VS. :(
 
what does it say when you're not using trailing return types, OOC?
 
It works if the class is not defined within a namespace
 
jfc
 
2:43 AM
I can confirm that linux works with 36 cores and 72 threads
 
3:06 AM
@Mysticial Btw, definitely check out Re:ZERO
You'll like it :)
 
@Liang How well it runs minecraft? :D
 
@DmitriBudnikov which VS? really new one?
sorry multiplonk
 
3:21 AM
2013 and 2015
 
@DmitriBudnikov does this work?
oops, missed the parameter
 
-.- it does
2 phase fuckup strikes once again?
 
I'm sure many windows people have tried namespaces and realised they had to do this and backed out
 
@StackedCrooked It's on my to-do list.
But for now I'm busy twiddling with that 44-core box.
He gave me access to the server controller which lets me actually reboot the entire thing into the BIOS. IOW - full access, more than just root.
I hope it's not a trap. lol
 
That's cool.
 
3:30 AM
The only thing I don't have is physical access.
 
Yeah, rebooting a remote machine is always scary :d
Often customers give us full access to their machines for simple support questions.
 
I asked him to try disabling HT.
He told me to log into the idrac. (Integrated Dell Remote Access Server)
 
probably one of these
then KVM, then press Del for setup or whatever, etc
 
4:05 AM
 
In American English the term is "lobby"
 
@DmitriBudnikov oh you
 
4:21 AM
good evening everyone
 
I'd call it more of a night, really
 
@Feeds Don't know both of those words.
*didn't
 
but how goes it?
 
4:44 AM
@ProblemSlover haha havent tried
probably should one day :p
 
@jaggedSpire its going fine I suppose. But learning how to use this hash table I am working on is hard.
and ive used some online resources.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Nah. It will be hard to integrate them well.
 
5:20 AM
lmao packet loss between my pc and the server
IN LAN
 
< 0.1% though, right?
ethernet pushes its luck too hard to have zero losses
your cable routing is the main factor, assuming good hardware
 
Switch buffers are easy to overrun.
 
@doug65536 I'm replaying an UDP stream captured elsewhere so losses are very annoying
 
@DmitriBudnikov or very good because you want the bugs to surface now
ah I see
 
5:36 AM
No, I need to receive the stream continuously
Production machines have ways to recover dropped packets, but my dev machine no :w
 
why not replay into a vm? that one wont drop anything. feasible?
 
No I have no control over the software
 
That 44-core box is not easy to use...
 
For example I made the mistake of launching tcpreplay with sudo (because admin gave me sudo permissions for that binary) and now I can't kill it
 
I'll resume tomorrow if I still have access to it.
 
5:38 AM
Everything gets in my way everything is painful
 
Granted, you can't expect something written for an 8-core box to work well on 44.
 
@Mysticial ya, up there amadahl's law is bad
for a 44-separate-things workload it's great
can't you restructure your algorithm to perform 44 completely separate things at once instead of trying to go 44x faster on one thing?
like do 44 totally separate FFT's
I don't know how your workitems are structured but generally, the fastest way is to not fight over cache lines
 
Ven
Helo
 
There's a lot of research going on in to stuff like making software scale to any number of cores.
Of course it won't be applicable to everything.
But it seems like it could work for the PI program.
Assuming the problem inherently allows for this much parallelism.
Which I don't know.
 
5:56 AM
@doug65536 It's not Amdahl's law, it's memory access.
As well as the NUMA.
 
causing portions to become less parallel because it waits while others run
 
And Windows' bugged processor group assignments.
They clearly never anticipated that a single NUMA node could exceed 64 logical cores.
 
it is because they use bitmask to represent processor affinity in earlier APIs
 
@StackedCrooked There's plenty of parallelism to be exploited. The problem is just the memory access.
 
backward compat to earlier code that assumed 64 max
 
5:59 AM
If I still have access to the machine by tomorrow, I'm gonna try playing around with the snoop settings.
Right now the snoop settings are set to "low latency/low bandwidth". I'm gonna switch it to "high latency/high bandwidth".
That will slow down synchronization, and increase memory bandwidth.
The program isn't bottlenecked by latency and synchronization.
Latency is pretty well prefetched and hidden away by HT.
 
hopefully not so long that kernel spins will then context switch
 
In the mean time, I'm gonna humiliate the LN2 overclockers on HWBOT with this box.
Even though it's massively bandwidth starved, it's still good enough to destroy those 5 GHz 5960X's.
 
yeah, cache hit rate is pretty amazing if you behave
 
In short, nothing is gonna run well on that box unless it's NUMA aware.
Or doesn't use memory.
 
Latency is the hardest problem to solve. Yet bandwidth seems to be more often the bottleneck.
^ She agrees!
 
6:05 AM
numa has separate memory banks. it is only sharing that ping pongs lines around. 44 separate concurrent jobs will run fast
the only thing stopping an ideal program from being perfectly concurrent is contention on the OS thread scheduler and paging structures
 
Not sure. You can be memory bound even without thread contention.
 
not due to numa. if you have 4 cpus on the motherboard you have 4 groups of memory sticks. they all run at once
assuming no fighting over cache lines and no migrating cache line ownership across nodes
 
NUMA NUMA ei
 
with that box, you probably have quad channel on every node. you have a completely obscene amount of bandwidth available
 
have u guys ever tried cuda though?
much better for bandwith bottlenecks
 
6:12 AM
but FFT workload is brutal on memory subsystem
 
@milleniumbug presto presto
 
@doug65536 Indeed it is. Prime95 is (for all practical purposes) "optimal" in terms of memory usage. And it's still heavily memory-bound on desktop systems.
My Pi program has it better since it uses NTTs rather than FFTs. Same algorithm, just a different ring. NTTs have a much better compute/memory-access ratio.
But even that is borderline memory-bound on sufficiently high-clocked Haswell boxes.
 
do NTTs still need butterfly?
 
Yeah. NTTs are identical to FFTs. But instead of complex number arithmetic, it's modular arithmetic.
 
got it. cool
 
6:24 AM
They're a lot slower because of the modular arithmetic, but they use a lot less memory - and therefore a lot less memory bandwidth.
Actually, my pi program uses both FFTs and NTTs. But all the FFTs that it does fit entirely into CPU cache.
 
ah, so no 3-instruction mul and 1 instruction add
yeah, sounds great for modern cpu if it helps memory pressure
 
Depending on which flavor of NTT that's being used, it can be on the order of 20+ instructions for a twiddle factor multiply.
 
7:11 AM
Just realized lscpu incorrectly uses K as unit for kilobyte, instead of k.
Also I don't understand the output of lscpu -p
 
7:25 AM
@Mysticial Doesn't this mean you should make your algorithm NUMA aware? :)
 
Ven
@DmitriBudnikov it's Kappa
 
yawn
I am the sleepies
 
it's morning here
 
my brother pointed out that it was 5:55pm on may 5th on the 5th weekday (thursday) yesterday :)
 
lol norway wants to pay the migrants to leave
@Puppy should've gone to bed straight out of Invader LE :P
 
7:37 AM
@DmitriBudnikov that, or your memory is plasma operating at 16000000 kelvin
starting 10 copies of eclipse cools off the free memory quite a bit
so.... helgrind wants you to notify condition variables while holding the lock? lol, why
spurious wakeups are okay, that is why there is a test after a wakeup. it is better than notifying then having the other thread(s) block on the lock right away
 
@SahibNavlani Actually, no. If you're still failing at understanding now, go back, open your book, read the chapter about pointers again and then come back for explanations. — Bartek Banachewicz 54 mins ago
 
I wonder how many people doubled their context switch rate by following its advice
 
oh wow this comment actually got upvoted
 
user1804599
Hi minisluts
 
Ven
hi slutmaster
 
user1804599
7:51 AM
I like BDSM
 
ok
so what version of MSVC do you use
 
softcore
┌─────────────────────┐
│ Does this even work │
└─────────────────────┘
meh
 
user1804599
Looks like 💩
 
user1804599
You should feel ashamed
 
user1804599
8:03 AM
Your box is bad and you should feel bad
 
I think this must be @CatPlusPlus 's favorite book
Like, everything checks out - boring, python, total beginner. :P
 
have not seen a white cat here recently, there is a black puma turning up regularly instead
 
> Duolingo’s Swedish course turns out to be the most popular in Sweden itself: 27% of all users in Sweden are learning Swedish.
heh
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz I want a Haksell library with process execution and composition functions (think Bash) and quasi quotes for commands
 
user1804599
So that I can write my shell scripts in Haskell
 
8:14 AM
There's a shell project for Haskell
 
user1804599
Nice
 
Ven
I should go back to duolingo
 
user1804599
I have a Tinder match named Shelly
 
@BartekBanachewicz Neat.
 
8:28 AM
So European Consumer Protection System is called Rapex
 
8:46 AM
I opened haskell website, there was a box asking me to write a random command to try.. it was a bait to take me into a haskell tutorial, I'm now learning haskell
 
Plot twist ~Shelly turns out to be CatPlusPlus~
 
In all my matrix-related functions I do checks to ensure the passed Vector/Matrix isn't NULL. Is it worth doing this though? Given these functions will be run a lot, does a bunch of condition checks cost enough to matter?
 
pass by reference instead, duh
 
?
They are passed by reference.
 
@Khaled.K what tutorial are you learning from?
@Owatch then how can they be null?
 
8:50 AM
@BartekBanachewicz haskell.org
 
@Owatch This is a bad question to ask. I mean, the "should I be doing that" is okay; the reasoning is not.
 
Matrix mul(const Matrix& lhs, const Matrix& rhs);
 
@Khaled.K ah that one, it's very simplistic there. If you want a proper one, LYAH is probably still the best choice
 
It seems I'm not checking for what I want to check, which is to ensure that the pointer passed hasn't had whatever exists at the memory location freed.
 
ok, now you're just bad
 
8:53 AM
Answers on SO seem to suggest what I am doing.
 
@milleniumbug that
@Owatch then they're also bad - Seriously, +4 answer by Anon? The whole tread is a giant XY pithole
 
user1804599
@Owatch no, make the requirement part of the type instead
 
user1804599
For example, take a reference instead of a pointer
 
user1804599
Or write a smart pointer that can't be null
 
Well C does not have references. But thank you for an actually helpful reply!
I'll work out something.
 
8:58 AM
Don't check for invalid pointers, seriously
 
user1804599
It's been exactly 14 years since Pim Fortuyn got killed for exercising freedom of speech :/
 
freed pointers are definitely invalid, whether NULLs are invalid depends on use case
 

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