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12:03 AM
There are some indian brothers with connected torsos
 
Oo I got a reply from the android room:
in Android, 8 hours ago, by WarrenFaith
@Telkitty rejected because your superiority is devolving too fast! The chances to be able to keep up with us is beyond imagination.
rofl
maybe I should write a bot to post a request to join every hour
also my company rego suppose to expire today
still have not received any email from ASIC reminding me to renew it
 
12:29 AM
Hey there, guys
Could anyone answer me a quick simple C++ question?
 
Ell
depends what it is
 
if it's a quick simple question, why can't you answer it?
 
'Cause I'm a noob in C++. I'm originally a C# programmer.
 
but you said it's simple
 
If its a noob question its probably answered already
 
12:31 AM
if you can't answer it, you don't find it simple
 
just ask....
 
It's not simple for me, it's simple for pretty much anyone with more experienc in the language than I.
Do static variables stay in the memory foverer?
 
201
Q: What is the lifetime of a static variable in a C++ function?

MottiIf a variable is declared as static in a function's scope it is only initialized once and retains its value between function calls. What exactly is its lifetime? When do its constructor and destructor get called? void foo() { static string plonk = "When will I die?"; } P.S. For those w...

called it
 
Hey thanks. I hadn't searched it that way (english is also not my first language).
 
@MatheusRocha short answer: no ... if you turn off your PC, it will disappear
 
12:34 AM
@Telkitty Well that I knew haha, I meant during the execution of the software.
In this case yes. It will stay tehre until the program terminates.
Thanks a lot guys :)
 
@Telkitty Not instantly
 
1:03 AM
@Telkitty get out
@NaCl depends on the type of memory used, mainly. And temps etc.
 
@sehe Yes
 
1:58 AM
holy shit
this is the biggest fucking bullshit ever
people are going to bed with windows 7, and wake up with windows 10 installed
 
2:30 AM
I have a brainstorm question: is there any way possible way to implement contra-variance on type-erased (member) function pointer return types?
This might be better served as an actual StackOverflow question
*covariant
 
yes, by doubly erasing
 
"C++ double type erasure" yields no immediate search results. Is that a joke?
 
@BarrettAdair why should it be?
 
@LucDanton No idea. What does "doubly erasing" mean?
 
No animated GIFs (animated discussions, however, are still allowed).
 
2:40 AM
@BarrettAdair Erase a first time, then a second time. In my example, a copy of p is erased first and held inside f then in turn a copy of f is erased and held by g.
 
Didn't realize you posted a link, thank you!
 
3:35 AM
@LucDanton Here's a vtable implementation of the technique applied to member function templates. It's intrusive, but not for the user.
"self" is just an example member. There are obvious concerns about object lifetime/copies/const correctness, but at least I know now that a vtable implementation is possible.
That is, achieving type-erased covariance using member function pointers.
 
3:52 AM
although you guys might not be able to see it..
 
20 hours ago, by Telkitty
android room has revoked my access privilege ...
welcome to life
 
life*
 
user562566
4:46 AM
@rightfold I thought you died
3
 
Ven
5:31 AM
Guess who's back, then
 
Guess who's back, ven
 
user1804599
6:15 AM
Doe normaal.
 
user1804599
Dwaas.
 
Helemaal mee eens.
 
summer bear don't sleep much?
 
@orlp "Page not found". What happened
 
user1804599
I didn't sleep.
 
user1804599
6:19 AM
At all.
 
@sehe can't repeat it here lest I get banned again?
 
user1804599
I feel horrible.
 
@orlp On to discord :)
 
what 2 do? I feel void*
 
@BarrettAdair Hi there. Good to see you here, the randomest of places :)
 
6:30 AM
@sehe Hi! have we met?
 
Not really. But I noted you are working on CallableTraits and are contributing in that subject on SO too
So your fame may have preceded you a bit
 
:D
It's almost a pointless project. But it is fun to work on.
 
Welcome to C++!
It's rarely useful. But when it is, there is truly hardly an alternative
 
Thanks! I just started working on an experimental library for immutable strings. Right now it's only for fun and education. What are you working on?
 
6:47 AM
@BarrettAdair this is not an example of variance
 
True, but it looks like it to the user (only difference is different function instantiations, right?)
@LucDanton
 
@BarrettAdair yes
perhaps more accurately, it’s not a typical example of variance
 
@BarrettAdair I'm just using these kind of libraries. No heroics from me. I get my satisfaction from writing C++ code that doesn't feel crummy
 
@LucDanton Thanks for the input/inspiration.
@sehe I know what you mean. It's hard to write good C++. I think that's why I like it too
 
7:07 AM
@BarrettAdair you’re probably at the point where you know enough to be dangerous
 
there are so many android chats, if I get kicked from one, I will just jump into the next one
maybe link LRiO's chat? so when a newblet gets kicked from this room, (s)he can go to LRiO's room instead?
 
@LucDanton Working on it. Maybe my job interviewers next week will agree.
 
hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii‌​iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
my favoriate state <3 ^^^^
 
put on Danger Zone and cool shades while coding you should be good to go
 
@BarrettAdair HELLO NOT REALLY BUT KIND OF NEW GUY!!! XD
@BarrettAdair What does that mean
 
7:14 AM
lol
Hi.
 
Ven
hi
 
@VermillionAzure what does what mean?
 
@BarrettAdair "Experimental library for immutable strings" why?
 
1. I'd like to have a modern library for immutable stringsseeing if
Oops
no carriage return
shift + enter, got it
 
@BarrettAdair ???
 
7:19 AM
1. I'd like to have a modern library for immutable strings, a la C#/Java.
2. I have a couple of cool ideas with templates that cause a lot of code bloat that may or may not be worth the executable size hit
 
@BarrettAdair you lose (most) inline markup, due to that limitation I can’t say it’s a very popular feature outside of quotes
 
@BarrettAdair What are immutable strings?
Can't you already have those?
 
@VermillionAzure immutability != const. We have const strings, but not immutable strings. Immutability is a design choice.
And it leads to fluid interfaces for string manipulation
 
@BarrettAdair But... what's the point?
 
it also leads to your face
 
Ven
7:21 AM
there's lead on your face
 
Is const not already immutable by most cases?
 
Ven
no it's not
 
jesus
 
constness is a language feature. Immutability is a class design choice
 
I'm still eating breakfast and I can barely keep my eyes open
 
7:22 AM
"Strings and other concrete objects are typically expressed as immutable objects to improve readability and runtime efficiency in object-oriented programming. Immutable objects are also useful because they are inherently thread-safe.[2] Other benefits are that they are simpler to understand and reason about and offer higher security than mutable objects"
 
Ven
@BarrettAdair immutable can be a language feature as well. :)
 
^ from Wikipedia
 
@Ven never change my friend
 
@BarrettAdair I'm still confused...
 
Ven
@LucDanton oh hey bikeshed guy. How are you doing?
 
7:24 AM
YES
 
const seems to be mostly immutable unless you opt out with mutable or const_cast away the stuff
 
Ven
@LucDanton friend actually allows you to change the other guy.
 
Google beat Oracle- implementing APIs is fair use.
 
@VermillionAzure Sometimes I want str.erase(...) to leave the underlying string alone, and return a new string with the specified character removed instead. Make sense?
 
@Puppy Not definitively; appeal is still open
 
Ven
7:24 AM
@Puppy now we hope they won't win via an appeal
 
With a const string, .erase(...) is simply not available to me. I have to copy it, THEN call erase
And that's not very fluid
 
@Ven I found a couple nice books, which were pleasant to read at first but then I realised they were eating pretty much all of my time
 
@BarrettAdair How else would you code that?
Suppose we implement a string class, C style.
 
Ven
@LucDanton (btw, were you praising me for my loungesome pedantiquerie or..?)
@LucDanton well, what were those?
 
@VermillionAzure I meant "fluent" interface.
 
7:25 AM
@Ven everything’s an opportunity for a terrible pun
 
Ven
That's also true..:)
 
@VermillionAzure if you spend 10 minutes with strings in C#, you will understand.
example:
 
Ven
"they're passed by reference but they're still immutable"
just like var a = "x"; a[0] = 'b'; won't work in JS, say.
 
@LucDanton Remember, just like in real life, only friends can touch your privates
 
@Ven Ken Follett’s historical fiction novels, The Pillars of the Earth and Fall of Giants so far
 
7:27 AM
auto str = std::string{"hello, world!"};
 
Kill your children, master your slaves, etc.
 
Ven
@LucDanton Ah, I admit I never read that
 
str2 = str.erase(4);
assert(str2 == "hell, world!");
 
@BarrettAdair Are you trying to code? Why not use coliru.stacked-crooked?
 
assert(str == "hello, world!");
yeah sorry
 
Anyway that's the gist of immutability. It took a while to wrap my mind around the difference between const and immutability when I first learned the word
 
@BarrettAdair uh btw your example isn't right???
 
I forgot an "auto", and I was showing what COULD be the case for immutable strings
 
@BarrettAdair But the question is why?
 
The designers of the C# and Java standard libraries can give you a better answer than I can.
Basically if you spend a few minutes programming with strings in C#/Java you might see why they are nice.
 
7:32 AM
@BarrettAdair I guess? But what's the cost?
There's an optimization related to that I believe...
 
There are plenty of trade-offs, just like std::string has trade-offs vs. char*
 
@BarrettAdair Yes... But I forgot the reason immutability was a thing hm...
 
Mutable state is generally more difficult to reason about
People who like functional programming like immutable objects
 
@BarrettAdair I suppose, but then again naive immutability is very inefficient
 
@BarrettAdair Like what?
 
7:35 AM
Having to create a new copy for each immutable object is bad but I know that that's not the case
 
The argument for immutable strings isn't an argument for efficiency at all.
 
You get all the goodies and you lose...?
Eight bytes?
 
Unless your code is bottlenecking at string manipulation, there's a lot of wiggle room
say "no" to premature optimization
 
@BarrettAdair From what I remember, it is an efficiency of design concern ultimately: immutability is supposed to result in more correct design and is less error-prone
 
@VermillionAzure correct
 
7:37 AM
@BarrettAdair I don't understand this argument because std::string is much better in most situations
This is the reason why we use std::string
 
@VermillionAzure I'm not here to sell you on immutable strings. I'm just saying that many people find them pleasant for programming
@VermillionAzure I'm one of those people
 
Fair enough
I'm just trying to jog my memory
 
Fluent interface is a big one
 
@BarrettAdair But... can't you already do that?
eh whatever
 
I'm looking for an example but my connection is slow. Waiting for pages to load
 
7:45 AM
@Morwenn Now there are five comments, and all of them are completely useless and/or wrong :)
 
auto result = str.erase(4).append("asdf").insert(5, "asdfasdfasdf");
//str is unchanged

That's why I like immutable classes with fluent interfaces.
If you don't see the appeal, that's ok -- you don't have to like it.
 
because it's annoying. That's all. It's imperative rather than functional
 
@BarrettAdair If you like immutability so much, why don't you marry Rich Hickey? ;)
 
No, that was a good point.
 
7:47 AM
*googles*

> Clojure

...Oh.
 
For the record, I love immutable classes, but sometimes mutability is convenient.
 
@BarrettAdair C++ is not necessarily a functional language lol
 
@fredoverflow Definitely. I'm not a hardliner for any pattern or paradigm
 
Ven
@fredoverflow how dare you! non-believer!
 
@fredoverflow It's really interesting to see how many different ways we can do things...
 
7:48 AM
To me, Clojure is the epitome of immutability. All of its core data structures are immutable. It doesn't have mutable collections at all :)
 
@VermillionAzure Of course it isn't. That doesn't mean we can't have nice things.
 
Ven
@BarrettAdair That's not a fluent interface.
 
@fredoverflow that explains your chat avatar then
 
Ven
@fredoverflow sure it does, atom
 
@fredoverflow But the question is can we quantify how we do things differently? Is there any study on how different paradigms manage to complete the same computational tasks with a formal language?
 
7:49 AM
return [](std::string copy) {
    return copy.erase(4).append("asdf").insert(5, "asdfasdfasdf");
}(str);
@BarrettAdair There, now it's functional, and it still makes the copy upfront.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@VermillionAzure I think there was a study that concluded dynamic typing lets you get stuff done more quickly or something. Apart from that, there's not much science going on in computer science.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lol. "Composable" would have been better
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think he just wanted the copy on modify by default or something with the usual function syntax
 
what's the point of programming if all you have in your program are immutable objects?
 
7:49 AM
@fredoverflow Very disappointing
@Telkitty Because immutability is all about reducing error-prone designs, not functionality
 
but programming is more about variables than constants
 
@Telkitty Immutability doesn't mean you cannot have change--it just means that the change needs to result in a new copy of the object
@Telkitty And these expensive copies can be optimized away in many cases, apparently
 
memory usage ...
 
@fredoverflow Wait, aren't you a professor?
 
@VermillionAzure Well, the problem is that no two programmers are alike, and programmers change over time. In contrast, every electron in existence behaves the same, so physics is a lot easier to study. At least I imagine :)
 
7:52 AM
@Telkitty Functional Programming
 
@VermillionAzure lol no, I just do some programming in lectures
 
@fredoverflow I want to say this is bullshit because software engineering deserves the same if not more sophistication that we give to the physical engineering fields
There is no reason why computer science cannot be more empirical
 
@Telkitty imperative programming is what you describe. There are other kinds of programming
 
@fredoverflow aw
 
@VermillionAzure Our field is probably way too young. Wait another couple hundred years, and we might establish some common beliefs ;)
 
7:54 AM
@fredoverflow My mission might be to try and evolve the field should I complete my graduate studies
:)
But for now I'm going to read compilers
 
@VermillionAzure We should probably get some help from "the social studies", if such a thing exists.
 
@fredoverflow Of course it does
A lot of the social sciences now have the power of big data to help them; it should be possible
 
I don't know how these things are called in English is all :)
 
I do
Which brings me to the following question
 
@fredoverflow Also, yes, they're called the social sciences/studies
Psychometrics is partially empirical. I'm sure Facebook and Google have something to say about neighborhood analysis and social networks and ranking
 
7:56 AM
@fredoverflow Well... I once asked a question on UserExperience.SE, and some guy gave an answer that has strictly nothing to do with the question, and I never managed to get the answer deleted or downvoted into oblivion, even after the answerer admitting that he didn't understand the question and that his answer wasn't answering the question.
 
Ven
oh hi @Morwenn
 
Hey, I'm only passing by :p
I thought that the end of my post was clear o___o : "This question is about selection tools, not about menus."Morwenn Mar 11 '14 at 19:39
 
Hmmmm... Any discrete set should be mappable to the integers, right?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is the question following a slow boat
in a dry dock
that’s been buried by a volcano
 
@sehe POLAR BEAR
 
8:01 AM
What did I do
 
you're here
 
Ven
You wouldn't download a Lounge
 
-1
A: Centre-based radial selection

jffAmong other things these are called Radial Menus, Pie Menus... You may think you have never encountered one of these, but probably you have played some game that implemented a variation of it. Pros Can be triggered anywhere and all options are near reach. This is very relevant to minimize inpu...

@Morwenn ah damn I thought I was clever by doing some advanced stalking
then you postd it here already :(
 
> Nobody warned me that being an adult would mean wasting my waking hours updating Linux on a set of lightbulbs, rebooting them until they’d take the latest firmware. The future is great.
@Ven But I implement one
 
Ven
You might implement an ILounge, but you extend a Lounge!
 
8:10 AM
Is that Java heresy right there
 
Ven
C# as well
 
iLounge? totally objective C
 
I implement it.
Verb: impleō ‎(present infinitive implēre, perfect active implēvī, supine implētum); second conjugation
  1. I fill up, fill full; cover.
  2. I satisfy, satiate.
  3. I make fat or fleshy, fill, fatten.
  4. I make pregnant, impregnate.
  5. I amount or fill up to.
(3 more not shown…)
 
@sehe I believe you
 
8:12 AM
Why is the US National Spelling Bee in German?
 
That's hilarious
The Dutch "Nationeel Dictee" (which is the closest thing we have) is usually half French
 
Some of the spelling bee words: Feldenkrais, Gesellschaft, Biniou, Taoiseach, Mischsprache, Tetradrachm.
 
@sehe starting at the name, even
 
Ven
@sehe so you only put half the accents? :P
 
I don't get spelling bees, probably because I am terrible at spelling words correctly. But still, with the aid of computer who needs to remember how to spell things correctly?
 
8:14 AM
I don't subscribe to the idea that loanwords do not count as English words, but FFS.
What English speaker knows any of those words as English words?
 
Ven
@Telkitty wat
 
Because French words are so chique - ROFL - Pretentious bastards don't care what it means.
 
It just looks like some German native who learned English as a second language and keeps forgetting English words mid-sentence thought their idiolect was SAE.
 
@LucDanton You could say that
 
@sehe how come you have a need for the word 'chique', I wouldn’t have thought of that as a particularly French vice
 
Ven
8:16 AM
@sehe well, as you can note, "chic" is very different from "chique", so :)
 
or chick
 
Ven
ENOTAFRENCHWÔRD
2
(I felt bad about not having accents there)
 
Ven
cock co rick-o
 
@sehe Java doesn't have the I interface convention.
 
8:18 AM
@LucDanton Hey. I'm just saying it. The article - in Dutch - explains the weird happenings with the word chic - as far as it can be explained, likely.
Dutch also use "überhaupt", "sowieso" - and at least one of those would make a German look confused I think
 
Ven
@fredoverflow I see it regularly, though
 
@fredoverflow That's right. Now I'm triggered.
They have ample nesting though. This is effective protection against inspection by jurors
 
Another irrelevant piece of news: Hottest commodity of 2016 is chicken feed
 
Wouldn't the I prefix be way too concise for Java people? How about InterfaceThatCanBeExtendedByOtherInterfacesOrImplementedByClasses?
 
@Ven Same link applies for you. I'm fully aware of the idiocy there. Didn't I mention that
 
8:19 AM
I also like how the BBC defines "taoiseach" as prime minister, but in Irish. No nuance there at all.
 
Ven
@sehe you directly linked to it. Which is why I said "as you can note"
wanted to make a pun but failed at it
 
At least "gesellschaft" is a particular type of social relationship that is left unspecified. It's possible that English lacks a word to describe that particular relationship and speakers would just loan the German word to be precise, but why would an English speaker use "taoiseach"?
 
@sehe it’s just a very plain word to steal, to my native ears. you could have chosen a better one!
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see it used much as e.g. 'Diet' is used
 
@Ven Better with IKEÅ spelling
 
8:22 AM
or Thing or one of the other ones
 
oh boy
 
Ven
@sehe I have no idea how to type that :/
 
@LucDanton Yeah. Snobs met de Franse slag!
 
hey who you calling a slag
 
Taoiseach just means "prime minister" . It's not even "Irish prime minister"; it's just "prime minister".
 
8:23 AM
@Ven Me neither, [right+alt+shift+mash left side of keyboard, delete undue characters] did the trick
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well all those other things means an Assembly or similar, yet they are used as well
 
@LucDanton It's googleable, no doubt
 
Ven
@sehe very good idea™ªπ•¶
 
@sehe yeah it means scories
 
if a minivan is a tiny van, a miniskirt is a tiny skirt, what is a minister?
 
8:25 AM
@LucDanton I think that's strong, but maybe you were referring to "slag" again. Ah you were
 
is minister a tiny version of mister?
 
Oh god. Kitty, please abstain from language.
 
@sehe I’m having lots of fun
 
:D
 
8:26 AM
Are novel, specialized machine architectures useful? Is there a cost-benefit to them, and why are custom machines not more popular?
 
Ven
 
@orlp Advanced stalking is pretty easy considering I only asked 4~5 questions over there :p
 
@Morwenn shh
it was highly advanced using top technology
 
Ven
did you use a Pyth stalking program
 
we need a bot on this chat ...
many other chats have one
not to follow the herd, but just saying ...
 
8:31 AM
> Just switch the order of the arguments.
:D
 
inb4 bin
 
Dude look at that algorithm!
 
Ven
@orlp /cc @jaggedSpire
 
@VermillionAzure legend says that if you repeatedly run it you can see individual atoms
 
8:38 AM
lol
 
@orlp that's... a lot of puppies
 
Ven
94
Q: How can we support languages other than English in Stack Overflow's chat... And should we?

Shog9This old question has come up again, this time sparked by a heaping pile of flags in a room dedicated to Gujarati Android developers. But the question isn't new; two years ago, this was the lament: This isn't one of our language Q&A sites. We don't allow anything other than English on the ma...

interesting stuff
 

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