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12:03 AM
@neet_jn There's no constructor in sight. Please go to Stack Overflow for Q&A
5 messages moved to bin
 
12:20 AM
@Zoidberg It must be us Dutchies with our bike experience:
 
12:34 AM
@Borgleader The kind that makes you re-check that it's not dated 1 April.
@neet_jn: Look up std::string, and forget you even heard of new (at least for a while--like a year or two).
 
1:04 AM
@LucDanton Et quelles blagues ! umoure de qualiter
sent 6.08K bytes  received 1.30M bytes  16.68K bytes/sec
total size is 8.28G  speedup is 6322.40
thanks rsync
 
@JerryCoffin Maybe, but then again I've been very impressed by this guy's blog and so I was inclined to trust it.
 
@Borgleader what's the catch?
 
kai
time for nops
 
1:14 AM
@DmitriBudnikov Isn't Kraken a proprietary product?
 
Oh, that's the catch then
 
After doing php for 2 years, I'm all out of $s
 
Probably optimized for their type of data sets and not general
Today I TILed that failed cron jobs send a mail to the local account
 
sternly worded to tell the user to stop wasting the system’s time
 
It essentially goes like this:
From root@localdomain  Thu Oct  1 20:15:32 2015
Subject: Cron

16354 Segmentation fault      (core dumped)

Regards,
 
1:25 AM
might as well have ended with 'Kindly fuck off,'
 
plays a victory tune from /dev/random
 
you could change the user script to something else, maybe to something like:
16354 Segmentation fault      (core dumped)

have fun ;)
 
lmao it's been conscientiously sending one email per day regarding a segfaulting job, and nobody noticed for ~6 months
try a phone call next time, cron
In the space of 1 week or 2 I've learnt so many shell and vim commands I have no idea how I managed to use a computer before
inb4 "en apuyen sur les butans"
 
o in visual mode swaps which end of the selection is active
 
1:37 AM
shudders
 
ya know about tag stack navigation via Ctrl-] and Ctrl-t right
 
@StackedCrooked what in particular (outside interesting naming?)
@DmitriBudnikov lel
 
I have a small script that does a bit of inotifywatch and careful sleeping/killing to start recompiles etc. after modifications
 
@sehe Interaction between coroutines and threads. TBH I'm having a hard time understanding.
teleport switches to another thread. Portal is like a scoped version of that.
 
My box is saving my time by refusing to play sound. I could go and fix the setting. But. Nah
@StackedCrooked Ok, that sounds interesting. Not immediately clear why it's very useful
 
1:43 AM
@DmitriBudnikov I actually did a bit of awk ~2 weeks ago lol
 
user406009
@StackedCrooked Wait? Arent' there like a bajillion optimization issues with that? I need to watch that talk.
 
I think yield also switches to another thread :-)
 
@Mikhail Depends on which yield, obviously
 
@DmitriBudnikov :h tag is the ticket I think, ya have things like :tsel or something as well
 
1:45 AM
Coroutines are nice but they are a single threaded async system. This talk is about how to use them with multithreading. Never found a good explanation of how to do this before. So this talk is pretty significant (at least for me).
 
mmmh what else, error files and location windows perhaps?
 
@StackedCrooked I've seen sane Yandex talks before, where they - logically - advocated 1 thread per logical core. I'd keep the coros per thread in that picture. Don't immediately know why you'd absolutely require to teleport across threads.
I think Yandex has a little bit of a tendency to overengineer. But hey, at least they make cool things
 
Idk, I think the usual pattern is to have 1 thread per logical core and have them pump tasks
 
Precisely
 
Or 1 thread per physical core if you're doing heavy arithmetic stuff
@sehe Well isn't it a classic
 
1:48 AM
The coroutine is typically used for the networking thread.
But it needs a way to communicate with other worker threads.
 
Haha. "The networking thread" will probably use many coros
@StackedCrooked Post tasks...
 
…mods are asleep
 
user406009
Or, if you want to have multiple networking threads, moving coroutines could be useful.
 
@LucDanton How so
 
The way I have it here is every thread loops on a select and threads post functions to each other
 
1:49 AM
+1
 
alternatively signals and slots?
 
That being said apparently this isn't the most low-latency sensitive approach
 
Still not sure why you mention it
 
user406009
@DmitriBudnikov Yeah, and if you had teleport, you could simply pass the coroutines along instead!
 
1:53 AM
@sehe by subverting the usual order of the parts that make up the meme, I am being humorous
 
lol
Post tasks... IGIN
 
@Lalaland There is another school of thought which is programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/244826/…
> During the design process the team concluded that recent directions in high-performance concurrency models using queues are fundamentally at odds with modern CPU design.
 
@DmitriBudnikov weird name, all things considered
 
yes the naming is probably the reason this pattern isn't used much
 
if only they had hired bikeshed carpenters
 
1:59 AM
it's merely a pipeline tbh
 
@DmitriBudnikov I think it isn't not used much
 
Or because thread starvation isn't an issue for many number crunching intensive workloads (as opposed to time critical/latency depended)
 
@DmitriBudnikov Organized for lockfree processing on arbitrary number of threads with some degree of thread affinity per task. That's basically it
 
@sehe And what makes you think so
 
There are quite a slew of libraries implementing it for anything from java, C# to C++
 
2:02 AM
number of implementations isn't a good measure of use
 
use-ability
 
ikr. Which is why I said I don't think it's "not used much". I didn't say "I think everybody uses it"
Anyhoops. I'm off. Sleep must commence.
 
I know. I am asking what makes you think it isn't not used much, and pointing that "there are a number of impls" isn't very convincing.
> No "Unbreak Now!" Tasks: Nothing appears to be critically broken right now.
if only
@sehe Good night
 
@DmitriBudnikov congratulations for successfully sweeping things under the carpet
not to mention tidying up the closet of skeletons
 
@sehe I would like to try out this disruptor thing in fact, to see how well it performs
Both in terms of latency and ease of programmering
The coros-per-thread-and-post model is very simple and works well enough
 
2:07 AM
how come the coros are per thread
 
What do you mean?
 
@DmitriBudnikov ⱳhat’s with the 'coros-per-thread'?
 
@DmitriBudnikov Martin Thompson did make me realize the importance of identifying and eliminating points of contention.
 
2:47 AM
@LucDanton Each thread (1 per logical core) has a queue of coros
 
@DmitriBudnikov oh, so no objection against a coro enqueuing a continuation wherever it wants to then
 
You can post a task on another thread but continuations remain on the same thread
 
3:17 AM
@DmitriBudnikov oh I did mean a logically separate task, not rescheduling self
 
Then yes
 
@ScarletAmaranth TDDWI getting pretty good (sort of a bummer that Hackage is down right now and I can’t update my Idris but oh well, works well enough)
 
3:34 AM
92
Q: How to politely tell someone to stop explaining?

BenubirdIt happens occasionally, that I come across something I don't know how to do, and I need someone to show me. So I ask Bob for help, because Bob knows this stuff, and he comes over and starts explaining to me. He talks for a couple of minutes, gives me an example or two, and I say "Ah, I see - ok,...

Just dropping this here
 
how to do it rudely is what I want to know
 
 
1 hour later…
5:05 AM
stop talking
 
5:31 AM
fuck I lost a lucsnippet
 
@DmitriBudnikov is that Felix from fefe.de?
Wow, he's actually an idiot
 
I would believe it is
I like how his problem is solved at the first dev response and yet he keeps on bitching
lucsnippet found the day is saved
 
ISTR there was an article last week or so about how "optimizers should stop breaking programs"
 
I'd title that as"GCC 6.1 release shows what everyone knew already: Qt-5, Chromium, and KDevelop codebases are shit"
There's nothing to see there, really. They provide a perfectly cromulent migration path.
 
5:40 AM
@DmitriBudnikov Undoubtedly--there seems to have been one every month or so for at least 10 years now.
 
>>Value range propagation now assumes that the this pointer of C++ member functions is non-null.
What kind of fucked up shit are they doing if this breaks their code?
 
Yeah, if your code fails under that assumption, no sympathy.
 
Maybe you can leak memory faster if you set this=nullptr?
 
You can't set it
It happens when you call functions on null pointers
 
or rather GCC removes those function calls
 
5:45 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you mean like static_cast<T*>(nullptr)->foo(), isn't that undefined behaviour anyway?
 
50
Q: Why does the enhanced GCC 6 optimizer break practical C++ code?

boot4lifeGCC 6 has a new optimizer feature: It assumes that this is always not null and optimizes based on that. Value range propagation now assumes that the this pointer of C++ member functions is non-null. This eliminates common null pointer checks but also breaks some non-conforming code-bases (suc...

 
@Isaac that's the point
> Why is it harmful?

Simply recompiling previously working, secure code with a newer version of the compiler can introduce security vulnerabilities.
Idiots everywhere
This is true regardless of what optimizations are added
If you care, which you should, you test your code after you recompile it.
 
Or don't exploit UB, it could break anytime, for example under a new or old version of MSVC
 
If you care, which you should, you have tests for your stupid code.
 
5:54 AM
Maybe the standard should legalize calling functions on null pointers... it works with VC++.
 
I wonder what the new unified call syntax thinks of nullptrs
 
> They are ... introducing bugs on purpose. Perhaps for a foreign government. Where do you live? All governments are foreign to most of the world, and most are hostile to some of the world.
what is the guy smoking?
 
all the pedants are going to have the last laugh, it seems. optimizers are starting to really optimize
 
anyone have solid c++ starting material I am helping my friend with an assignment and I am new to c++ it has to deal with arrays
 
4265
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are published every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a well-written...

 
5:59 AM
thank you!
 
@Mikhail lol, some idiots actually use null this? They knew it was wrong I hope. Now they pay.
 
> Oops that was meant to be a comment, not an answer
lol
 
@Isaac no, it should not. That's garbage.
 
Also "it works with VC++" is probably yet another reason it's a bad idea
 
VC++ is the "that" in "That's garbage".
 
6:02 AM
microsoft likes it when code wont work on other operating systems
 
so has microsoft won the OS war?
 
No, they lost
Android won
 
anyone here tried azure AD and Power BI? lol
 
for cellphones?
 
all you want is a report and you end up with an entire microsoft stack
 
6:05 AM
Ah, found the article I was referring to earlier
Or maybe not.
> The cost of transpiling ES2015 in 2016
n... not that one either
 
Are these people seriously advocating for undefined behavior?
 
@Charlie was there ever another OS war?
 
@Mikhail That or they don't understand UB
 
linux were trying for a while, apple too
 
That was never even a skirmish.
 
6:08 AM
google have been trying to make one, and even valve with their steam os
so windows won the stationary os war? I think thats fair to say
 
There was never one to begin with, I think.
 
Maybe in the early 90s?
 
Windows grew in an environment without any real competitors
 
Mac OS?
 
6:10 AM
Not a real competitor as I said.
 
Not a real OS either
 
like I love win10
but people think its hip to hate on microsoft for some reason
 
my brother went to start solitaire in win10. guess what? it is gone, you have to pay extra in the m$ store. lol
I guess they revoked his license to solitaire, lol
how cheesy can m$ get. taking away solitaire? get a grip people
glad notepad is free. how would people view readme. go to store to buy microsoft readme viewer?
 
Cheesy, you say, while using "m$"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes didnt realize you were a microsoft fan
 
6:16 AM
I'm not
But "m$" is a telltale sign of idiocy.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes personal attack noted
 
where did I put my popcorn
 
There's no reason for an OS to ship games.
 
or a GUI
 
and no reason for an upgrade to revoke functionality
 
6:18 AM
The original Solitaire was there to educate people about the mouse
 
This is why we can't have nice things
 
@doug65536 Oh, there are plenty of reasons for that
It's broken, it's redundant, it's a maintenance burden.
 
take included features, revoke them, then make people pay again for a licence to it?
 
You still own a license to Win8 Solitaire.
 
obvious fan
didnt mean to insult your friend
 
6:21 AM
The only MS thing I have in my machines is on my with computer.
But it's not like the fact that I was the one writing those things make them more or less valid.
 
their revoking of features then pointing you at an "app store" to pay again for stuff disgusts me, sorry
 
lol
use something else then
 
what if win 11 uninstalled msvc then said, "sorry, gotta go buy it again in the app store"
 
the whole OS is free what are you complaining about
 
Also, lol, just realised that Solitaire was removed in Win8
@DmitriBudnikov How dare they not give us everything for free!
 
6:25 AM
capitalist scum
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes if you had win7 you paid. what is free?
 
You paid for Win7
 
@doug65536 As I said, they didn't revoke your Win7 license, which comes with Solitaire
When you bought that license there was no clause for free upgrade to future Windows versions, and yet you still got that.
 
can you go back once you activate win10?
 
There's probably no official migration path, which isn't to be expected.
 
6:28 AM
microsoft have become the OS
they are beyond monetary gains at this point
 
microsoft doesn't need to nickel and dime you for crap like solitaire, why do they make themselves look bad by doing it? they dream of micro-transactions when they already have macro-transactions
 
They're idiots. That's a different matter.
 
it only affects me because family members use it and I have to use it a bit on their machines. I haven't used windows for years
 
install GNU/Linux
 
I already use linux
 
6:35 AM
Today is Terry Pratchett's birthday.
 
First it's GNU/Linux and second you can install it on your family member's devices too
 
@DmitriBudnikov I should
 
The first time I was in my girlfriend's bedroom I went there to help her install Linux.
 
I saved a number of dying windows XP laptops of uncles/aunts by putting a Mint or whatever
Put the same wallpaper and people don't notice the difference
 
I had the same idea with my moms comp
she freaked out, said she didnt want no joke os
its true tho, not a huge difference
 
6:39 AM
I simply don't maintain relatives boxes anymore. Much easier.
 
idk, I dont mind helping, its hella frustrating tho
getting questions like "what does send on facebook mean?"
 
That juxtaposition.
 
"no joke os" lol
 
while im writing binary export/import tools on the side heh
 
I have to say that being 2000km away is great for avoiding such things.
 
6:41 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes they haven't discovered remote control software I guess
 
Who would tell them about it?
 
idk will it be needed in the future
 
Don't make that mistake, kid.
 
they make the software so intuitive now
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I decided to increase that safety margin a couple thousand km more and yet it seems not to be enough
 
6:42 AM
literally press on the screen, large buttons that say what they do
[INSTALL FACEBOOK] [PLAY GAME]
 
That's how it works today.
Doesn't work.
 
like I was surprised to find, you can press a key
 
@Charlie you described win8
 
First flaw is the assumption that people read things.
 
and voice regonition software will do searches for u
 
6:43 AM
They don't.
 
reading can be exhausting, idk I blame them (us)
 
Perhaps the real problem isn't the GUI but rather that it pushes crap from the Windows marketplace and makes documents difficult to find and organize?
 
if I open my eyes and text is there, I read it. do some people have to consciously read?
 
so true mikhail, its like u own a phone
like theres a list of apps that dont make sense, "weather app" "calendar app"
and its impossible to find file directories
 
Calendar doesn't make sense?
 
6:45 AM
if you spend time getting familiarized with it maybe?
 
like having an app for that doesnt make sense to me
 
u just see the time/date and write somethign in a txt file or something
 
it is more than a calendar, it stores information
 
6:45 AM
idk, its like so userfriendly, you cant do anything
 
@Charlie oh god.
I mean, sure, use a text file. But how can you not see the utility then?
 
if i want it ill download it
is what im saying
 
txt files dont remind you 15 minutes before meetings
 
unless u download the txt2000 app
 
@Charlie So that's your gripe?
 
6:47 AM
kinda yeah, its so userfriendly, people that own the devices dont ever get to know them
 
Pretty flimsy reason to claim it doesn't make sense.
 
like i remember looking at my window98
 
@Charlie you mean like people who drive cars everyday?
Including professional drivers, mind you.
 
and finding out how to use poledit, and changing ini files
Likewise yeah, people dont own their cars like they did, they just drive them between tuneups
 
Like they did?
 
6:49 AM
before, young guys would study engines, learn about how to change oil, basic maintenance
 
Unless you're thinking Ford Ts
 
owning a car, would mean somehting more than just the name on the front
 
@Charlie No, they wouldn't.
 
hm? sure they would
 
@Charlie No, it didn't.
@Charlie yes, would be mechanics and geeks.
 
6:49 AM
like my dad wasnt a mechanic, but he could look under the hood without dying of angst
i think similarly, people that own computers now, dont really "own" them, as it were
 
@Charlie "data" is not the plural of "your dad".
 
ok?
 
Yes, a couple of people knew their cars. You're grossly underestimating the number of car owners over time.
 
owning a car would require that you knew it to a certain degree
knowing it, would mean you would change the oil, check the tire pressure
do basic maintenance
 
No, it didn't.
 
6:52 AM
if you lived in a family or culture where there was an expectation for you to know about cars, then you probably know about cars to some extent
 
well where I come from, looking under the hood was natural
 
I know plenty of decades-long car owners who don't know what a carburetor is.
 
like you can own a car, just drive it and send it to the shop
 
Also, changing the oil requires almost zero knowledge about the engine.
 
but as the time goes by, it wont be as valuable in like a emotional sense
 
6:53 AM
I mean, how can one bear not knowing how a car works. seriously?
 
apply the example to computers
pressing send on facebook
closing a tab
what more do you need?
 
Sigh.
@Charlie you have been able to do that for decades.
 
and?
compare what you would feel about your computer
 
Your "how things used to be" isn't how things used to be.
 
if that was the only thing you used it for
 
6:55 AM
I'd feel it is a useful tool.
 
yes they are, at some point you would have to know a ton of msdos commands
to basically do anything
 
@Charlie just like when there were Ford Ts.
 
cd.., dir /p
like you dont agree with my point?
 
No, I don't.
 
the world is getting so streamlined, people are relegated to passanger status
 
6:56 AM
I don't think anything is lost. See the growing number of programmers.
 
we see it in cars, computers, homes, everything
 
@Charlie that has always been the case.
Fact: you can't know everything.
 
where is the individual?
 
Everywhere.
You don't have to know computers to have individuality.
 
its not necessarily bad
like imagine you get a tool tahts so good, you dont need tools anymore
 
6:58 AM
There's no such thing vOv.
 
the solutions are so streamlined, your phone will soon automatically just live ur life for u
 
Also, who's to say that would kill individuality.
 
do ur job, brush its teeth
get kids
idk, it would reduce the need for thought
 
And that leaves you so much free time to express your individuality.
 
turn people into drones of leisure
the digital zombie age
 
6:59 AM
@Charlie or free it.
 
thats true
maybe computers will make food
 
@Charlie we already have that and people are still creating all sorts of things.
 
while people make art and jokes
like this guy
 
@Charlie the reason people want things streamlined is precisely so that they have more time for the things they care about.
Why change the oil if you can send the car to the shop and go play baseball with your kid?
 
@Charlie It's been like that for thousands of years hth
 
7:03 AM
will we ever run out of problems? will we become lazy and demented if we do?
 
Won't that be a problem?
 
hehe, touche
we are forever caught in an endless cycle of problems
maybe boredom is the ultimate challenge?
 
We have the ability to get rid of all problems since the 1970s
 
Ven
530
Q: Compiling an application for use in highly radioactive environments

rookWe are compiling an embedded C/C++ application that is deployed in a shielded device in an environment bombarded with ionizing radiation. We are using GCC and cross-compiling for ARM. When deployed, our application generates some erroneous data and crashes more often that we would like. The hardw...

 
7:13 AM
That reminds me: do you know that not all systems on the Eagle lander (the LM of Apollo 11) were redundant?
The onboard clock failed, so Neil took out his wristwatch and sticked it to the control panel.
That's why only Buzz has a wristwatch in the photos.
 
So it was, in actuality, redundant because they all had wrist watches...
 
But arguably Neil is an external system.
It's only as redundant as the Apollo 13 LM CO2 filters (which they replaced with makeshift filters adapted from the CM)
 
why do you need C02 filters? I assume the C02 was sufficiently clean for human consumption...
 
You need to remove it and replace it with O2 I guess.
 
why is it kill -SIGKILL pid and not kill --SIGKILL pid
 
7:25 AM
The LM was designed for two astronauts for the duration of the surface mission. But they had three astronauts in it for three times longer than that, so there was quite some CO2 accumulated
 
i thought that one dash is supposed to be used for composable one-letter commands like tar -xzvf
 
Except when it doesn't :S
That's just a guideline.
 
also why is this open in my tabs
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...
 
lol the BitBite
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz you're picking the example of tar... where the - is optional. tar xzvf works as well
 
7:48 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I know.
15 hours ago, by sehe
@milleniumbug A millstone? Yeah that works (remember to put it down before weighing though)
@Ven That's GNU specific, IIRC
 
Ven
@sehe works on my mac™
 
That comment thread is a trainwreck
 
user1804599
@Ven Use a thousand machines running Erlang.
 
Ven
@sehe you fucking w0t m5
 
@BartekBanachewicz because short forms use one dash, and long forms use two. see --signal
 
7:53 AM
TL;DR: A. [existential angst] B. "Have you tried?" A. "Oh, hey, thanks!"
 
Ven
@doug65536 -SIGKILL is pretty long.
 
it is counterintuitive for SIGKILL to be a short form though, I understand
 
Ven
@Zoidberg erlang is webskle, not radioactivescale
"up vote -27" wow that's a pretty golden question
 
@sehe does your high reputation level help you pick up chicks at the bar?
 

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