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Xeo
12:02 AM
"Can't access file because it's used by another process"... one thing after another >_>
 
Ell
Boot into linux live is an easy solution :L
That's what I always do
 
@Xeo Ooooh, that's Shift-JIS.
 
Xeo
I hoped it would atleast be able to read from the disk while it's used. Seems silly if it couldn't.
@R.MartinhoFernandes kek
Seriously, why can't it read from the input just because it's used? :|
I seriously consider doing this from my debian vbox
Welp, I'll just go and try that. What could possibly go wrong?
 
here's an interesting question: How to portray a difficulty selection screen to small children who can't read yet?
 
user1357851
will they be trying to eat the computer?
 
user1357851
12:10 AM
or the older but still can not read kind
 
@MooingDuck Large icons?
 
@MartinJames of?
@Telkitty age 6ish I assumed
 
@MooingDuck I dunno. It's your problem! Mommy/milkshake/chocolate/Jimmy Saville
 
6 hours ago, by sbi
@BartekBanachewicz If you think a girlfriend is expensive you'll be in for a big surprise once you got yours pregnant.
oh god no. @sbi
 
Oh, BTW, I'm ratted, else I would not have posted that :(
Yay! The Lounge <C++> is back!
Please, no more Zoidberg this week..
 
12:17 AM
we are?
oh, we are.
btw @Bartek, I finished the HoTS campaign on Brutal just now.
 
@DeadMG god dammit dude.
 
what?
 
you have no life
 
yeah...
 
I had classes today, if not for them I would prolly finish too
 
12:18 AM
I stopped work at lunchtime to play a little
then I realized it was 10pm.
I didn't even eat lunch.
 
Xeo
Crap, I don't think I can do this dd thing from within my debian vbox..
 
Uh, I am now at the end of Mengsk' research facility
 
Xeo
Not without completely rerouting the USB connection into it, anyways.
 
hmm
 
don't spoil.
 
12:19 AM
that one gave me minor trouble
 
Xeo
Which is a bit sucky
 
pfft
the HoTS plot doesn't really reveal anything.
 
i am going to sleep anyway
 
it's "Kerrigan learns what Raynor learned in WoL."
 
thanks for the spoiler damnit
 
12:21 AM
he didn't really spoil duh.
anyways, good night.
 
Now I have to move to korea before legacy of the void to pay you back :P
 
lol
well, I hope that LotV actually has some more significant plot elements.
I mean, I enjoyed HotS's campaign from a gameplay perspective, most of the time.
 
and ill be all like "guess what TIL xeratul is a chick"
 
but the plot was like, "Seriously, you made me wait three years or whatever it was for this?".
anyway
I has a Gewgles interview at 10am tomorrow
so I'm off for sleeping.
 
Xeo
g'night
 
12:25 AM
Goodnight and Good luck!
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: We're officially the best room ever! [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk]
 
They deleted my question :( dunno why
 
Just got delete but worth the laugh.
 
That wasn't me XD
Anyway, I asked if it was worth learning Java if I already know a bit of C and want to learn C++ and C#
Trolls came in, though, and said "Learn Scala"
 
user1357851
@TonyTheLion officially?
 
12:37 AM
yes officially
 
user1357851
like ... how official?
 
Xeo
Fuck this, let's go robocopy-style and get to sleep. >_>
G'night
 
gnight
 
night
 
Xeo
I'll never finish my proposals till Friday T_T
 
12:38 AM
Niiight
 
:(
Can anybody see me?
 
Xeo
Sorry guys, no awesome stuff in C++14! ;_;
 
As soon as he leaves, I'm ditching this corner and having kinky encounters with UB.
 
user1357851
we did not count on you >_<
 
@Xeo C++21, ftfy
 
12:38 AM
Hello?
 
No, you're a ghost
 
Where's Icekilla?
 
Here
 
Oh God, anybody saw him?
 
Xeo
@Borgleader Nah, proposals for C++14 need to be sent in until Friday.
 
12:39 AM
I think we have just lost him
 
D:
 
@Xeo C++14 will become C++21
 
@Icekilla, just kidding.
 
u.u
Anyway. I asked on the forums and my question got deleted :( I dislike Java. I just don't like it
I'd rather learn C++ or C#
 
Learn both, Scala is not a bad choice either tbh
 
12:41 AM
Wait, with both, do you mean learn both Java and C++?
 
C++ and C#
 
Oh
 
Learn C++ first. It's a good school. Then anything will seems just simple.
 
I already know some C
Was my first language in college
 
@Icekilla, C++ is a whole new monster.
 
12:42 AM
this ^ (ironically this is a difference between C and C++)
 
I'm sure of it. Adding OOP is tough
 
People say that no one but 3 guys on earth really know C++. Never met them though.
 
hahahaha
Well, I guess some of them work for Intel
or Nvidia, or whatever
Either way, after passing OOP in college, should I bother learning Java?
 
@Icekilla, it's not just classes. Its operator overloading, templates, standard library, proper software design etc...
 
OOP, RAII, templates, exceptions, ...
 
12:44 AM
@Icekilla, It's a good choice to learn Java only when you want to kill your time.
 
I'd rather re-pick Python
 
@Icekilla, or check Ruby, it's worth it.
 
I guess
So I don't NEED java?
If I don't wanna learn, I mean
 
no, you dont need to, and you dont want to either
 
lol? why?
 
12:45 AM
@Icekilla, everything has its place, they say. We were discussing this here earlier today. Depends on what level you need to work, what performance you need and what is the context you want to deploy your application in.
 
you'll learn quickly that Java has quite a bad rep around here
 
I'm still young, but I'd like to get into either mobile app development or security
You know, like the guys who work at Symantec and whatnot
Perhaps C++ is more useful for that
 
It's very hard to have better performances that C/C++ without dealing with Assembly or machine code directly. But C/C++ can be tough. If you just need to deploy an application cross-platform and fast, I think you should use Java. For anything else use C++.
 
And C#? There have been many efforts to bring it into Mac OS, Linux, Android, iOS, etc
 
@Icekilla, You'll need to learn C# and Objective-C too for mobile development.
 
12:48 AM
For cross-platform development I mean
 
@Icekilla TIL
Unless you mean Wine, I don't remember Microsoft saying they'd personally port it
 
@Rapptz TYL or he's wrong :P
 
Mono is C# trying to go to other playforms.
But Mono is not the most mature thing in the world.
 
Right, Mono.
 
Your alternatives are Java, just using C++, or any handful of other languages that might work on Linux/Mac.
 
12:57 AM
like Scala, Python, ...
 
^ Those ones.
 
@ThePhD, I don't think you can use C++ for iOS programming
 
Fuck iOS
Objective-C sucks
 
Yeah fuck 40% of the market, at least
 
Damn right.
 
1:00 AM
Objective-C sucks
 
@Jueecy Just googled for you, 17% as of 2012.
 
@Borgleader, what doesn't?
 
Which is actually a lot lower than I expected
 
@Rapptz fuck 17% :p
 
Indeed
 
1:02 AM
@Jueecy C# doesnt, C++ doesnt, Python doesnt, Scala doesnt, ...
 
@Borgleader True.
 
I still can't make much sense of objective c code
At least the iOS one.
 
@Jueecy Actually, you can. But you need to have a grasp on how to separate the interface portions of communicating with iOS/OS X (Cocoa, Foundation) APIs and delegating everything else to your C++ code.
 
> main.cpp:32:131: internal compiler error: in strip_typedefs_expr, at cp/tree.c:1420
 
1:05 AM
And delegating there is used as an English term, not a design pattern enabled by Obj-C protocols and runtime-induced structs called "classes".
 
ObjC is the onyl language for iOS.
 
^
 
I can't really stand ObjC though.
And the phone market is extremely saturated.
 
Actually, no. It's quite destructive to write games in Objective-C.
 
So, I'm not going to bother with another 99c piece of garbage.
 
1:06 AM
It kills portability. Objective-C is just used to interface with the system.
 
So you could build a layer on top of ObjC then?
 
Can you read?
 
...
That's videos.
 
You can mix them without issues, as long as you make sure that the C++ parts are self-contained and RAIIed.
 
Lulz.
 
1:08 AM
I'm stupid
 
@DomagojPandža But how do you build an executable to work in C++ then on the iOS?
 
Although it confuses people when they try to combine ARC-enabled Obj-C and C++
@ThePhD .mm / .hpp
 
Apparently you can use Qt for iOS
 
user1357851
Obj C is as bad as PHP, possibly worse
 
Objective-C must be the interface with the system. But everything else which requires performance is usually written in nekkid C++.
 
1:09 AM
Objective - C is built on top of C. C++ is built on top of C. I don't think you can mix them.
 
You got that mixed
Objective-C is a strict superset of C. C++ isn't really a strict superset but it has compatibility with it.
19
Q: Utilizing C++ in iOS and Mac OS X applications

KrisI'm somewhat moderate in my C++ knowledge but know next to nothing regarding Objective-C. I am planning (and even starting to) learn Objective-C so I can attempt to write a few iOS and even Mac OS X applications but I'm very curious about something I haven't been able to find yet. Is it possible...

 
You just set the extension .mm on every Obj-C which includes C++ code (even a glimpse of it) and the compiler latches on.
It's really trivial. The hard part is getting the interface to fuck off because it's really pervasive on iOS / OS X.
 
Seems like you are right
 
Hm.
 
Then how comes there aren't cross platform mobile frameworks If you can easily create a basic interface?
 
1:12 AM
SDL?
 
I think it's mostly Apple preaching against them.
 
@DomagojPandža, that's stupid. It's not like people will create less Apple applications with such a framework, isn't it?
 
@Jueecy Hold on, my google fu is failing me
 
Something about human interfaces and consistency. And also Apple cannot guarantee compatibility across updates.
 
I remember at least 2 existing.
 
1:13 AM
But they do exist.
 
SDL works on macs, but not on iOS directly.
 
If we're just talking regular Macs, plain C++ (Clang/GCC) works just right.
 
The only cross platform frameworks I've found for mobile applications are based on HTML5.
@Rapptz, yeah just like that one.
 
Holy shit it's by Adobe
 
1:15 AM
If you're doing Mobile platform you might as well just make an HTML5 thingymahdoodle.
At least until Mobile gets it shit together and just supports C++ out of the box like a good platform.
 
I'm kind of still pissed that I cannot port my renderer to OGLES even partially because the only way to get deferred rendering is to do multiple passes.
OGLES 3.0 spec is ready, just nobody adopted it ( MRTs)
 
Also worth mentioning that Microsoft actually uses C++ for its WP8
 
@Rapptz Yeah, but that's WP8.
I'm talking about Android and iOS and friends.
 
WP8 is decent
 
But thanks to multicore processors on iOS devices (newer ones) and GCD, I was able to determine light influence over geometry and emulate tile-based deferred rendering.
 
1:17 AM
I don't get the hate for it.
 
I don't hate it.
The market for it is just tiny, though.
 
Only thing it lacks is a good app store and the fault of that is because no one seems to want to develop for it due to the small market share
It's really its own problem in a way
 
It would also help if the App Store wasn't so gimped.
 
You're thinking about it the wrong way.
 
All across the DirectX pages,
"can't use this in WP8"
 
1:18 AM
By creating something awesome for Windows Phone 8, you can gain prominence very easily compared to iOS.
 
"Can't use this if used in the Application Store."
 
iOS has sucked for a long time
I don't get the appeal.
 
It's hype, mostly.
 
It was actually really decent at the time when the iPhone was new-ish
 
It's the success stories for most, I don't blame it, I develop middleware for the hyped up people and watch them burn in flames while counting my money.
 
1:19 AM
But as competition came there was nothing really special about the iOS yet it still holds a good chunk of the market share.
 
It's the display, it's the rich SDK, it's the experience.
 
Anywho, as far as C++ is concerned: people are just being lazy and dumb, honestly. Trying to use their individual tech platforms to push shitty coding platforms and paradigms. The actual redist libraries for VC++ and for GCC are tiny: like, 2-5 MB.
 
I have all the representative phones and tablets (SGSIII and the like, iPhone 4, 4s, 5, iPads #), nothing matches gaming on iOS devices.
 
That can fit on a modern phone easily.
 
@DomagojPandža Oh right, the only thing the iPhone has as an advantage on is its GPU
 
1:21 AM
@Rapptz When gaming is concerned, it's the tipping point, unfortunately. And the retina display.
It's just erotic.
 
Yep.
 
I don't get the hate over iOS
 
Eye candy~
My only hatred right now is for Android, actually.
Because NDK is fucking nightmarish.
(Yes, I did go and check it out).
Even the PS Vita kit is easier to use.
 
Does Android still suck for most countries for commercial app development?
 
Yes
 
1:23 AM
If I remember correctly, initially it was just 25 countries.
 
Everybody hates iOS but nobody knows why?
 
You have to pay $5 one-time fee and some countries can't
 
I don't hate anything, actually. I just use or not use stuff. :D
 
@Xeo I found a nice bug report and discussion on the whole topic of lambda exprs and SFINAE. I think most everything we discussed ourselves appears in it. The tl;dr appears to be 'if it is allowed at all, it's a defect'. I think I'm done with the whole experiment at this point.
 
@Jueecy I have a lot of gripes about it since it's my phone.
 
1:24 AM
Maybe Clang will make sure to support the technique, who knows.
 
@Rapptz, I see.
 
user1357851
Well, I only recently started to dislike Apple, because they forced people to buy their new phones by cutting off support on iphone 3 and below. But what they did not expect is that a lot people went Android instead
 
user1357851
or windows phone
 
@LucDanton So the whole lambda expressions and SFINAE discussion since yesterday seems to be a defect? Or is it the continuation?
 
I still have an iPhone 4 so my time is soon
 
1:25 AM
@DomagojPandža The discussion is not a defect, no :)
 
@Jueecy I had to develop on iPad for a school project. Takeways: 1) Fuck Xcode (no really, fuck Xcode), 2) omfg could be more of a closed platform or what? iirc there was 3-4 levels of certification the last one requiring an employee of apple to authorize by hand, 3) i hate objective-c with a passion
 
@Telkitty, I have an iPhone 3 and it works like a charm. I can even update to iOS 6 (just don't need to)
 
@LucDanton Oh, you. :)
 
@Jueecy Seems the cut off is iPhone 3GS
 
user1357851
@Jueecy can you? Please let me know where you can down ios 6 for iphone 3 (not 3s)
 
1:27 AM
Yeah, sorry. I have the 3GS. My mistake.
 
I was considering submitting a bug report because GCC ICEs for some snippets. Regardless of whether the would-be technique should have been valid or not, that's a GCC bug. As it turns out, someone else has filled a bug with a largely equivalent testcase. The ensuing discussion covered pretty much everything we talked about, and there's some really nice input from some members of the community.
 
@Borgleader, I hate XCode too somehow. But Objective-C? It has a lot of differences from C++, but it's not that bad.
 
It is a bit annoying to keep working with expression-oriented SFINAE, but really that technique would have been beyond bleeding edge.
 
@Telkitty, well, that's market anyway. It sucks.
 
user1357851
OMG SO has 3d view?
 
1:30 AM
@Telkitty, wat
 
Telkitty likes taking drugs.
 
Oh, right
 
@DomagojPandža Hear the colors, see the sounds.
 
Is the SO design ever gonna change?
 
@Jueecy What needs to change? :D
 
user1357851
1:32 AM
I accidentally pressed some button, then I have been offered 3D view. It could be a compaq thing, a window 7 thing or some other things. But I don't know what I have pressed >_<
 
Oh yeah, that's right!
Oh, wait
I can't contact DeadMG. I can't distract him before his Google interview :c
@Xeo Xeeeooo-saaaan, you never finished bashing my ResourceCache. :c
 
"We're officially the best room ever!"
says who?
 
@ThePhD, he has an interview with... Google?
 
@Jueecy Yup
 
@Jueecy It changes almost constantly -- though the changes are usually quite minor.
 
1:33 AM
@JABFreeware The Committee of Awesome.
 
@DomagojPandža and who are they
 
@DomagojPandža I mean, at least some fancy rounded borders and stuff for repressed gays like me...
 
Oh, Jerry is lurking around!
 
user1357851
Jerry is the most newb friendly person here.
 
@Telkitty I'm working on that though, you worthless piece of garbage newbie!
6
 
user1357851
1:35 AM
I am still a newb in your eyes? Oo
 
You're a newb in your mother's eyes, Telkitty. :D
 
@Telkitty You're the newb we pet and snuggle and await to post lolcats everywhere.
 
"The multisample renderbuffers are allocated using the same dimensions as the resolve framebuffer, but each includes an additional parameter that specifies the number of samples to store for each pixel."

The misunderstanding is strong with Apple.
 
@Telkitty I never really thought about it, but since you brought it up, you seemed like fair game...
 
Lol
@DomagojPandža I have 4 RTs for geometry, 2 RTs for lights, and 1 RT for the final composited image.
 
1:37 AM
@DomagojPandža It's the same dimensions, just different numbers for the...uh....dimensions. But still the same dimensions!
 
Allllll the memory. <3
 
@ThePhD 2 RTs for lights? huh
 
@melak47 Hellz yeah.
 
I don't understand
what do these light RTs do
 
1:42 AM
Basically, the point of multisampling #x is to generate a #x larger depth buffer than the color buffer and then query the weighted average of blocks of four depth samples and dilute the final pixel in the color buffer by that amount. But from the documentation, it seems that Apple also makes a fatter color renderbuffer to be resolved as well. It's a bit more precise, but a waste of time for mobile devices. Even PCs.
I'd prefer just an image-post-proc with FXAA, since phones are really not display-tastic to require more refined methods.
A lot smaller memory footprint and fill required.
 
Is the resolution done at your choice?
Or is it done automatically?
 
Manual resolving framebuffer is involved when you need to proceed.
 
Like, do you get how to resolve that final buffer?
 
glResolveMultisampleFramebufferAPPLE();
 
=[
 
1:45 AM
Also, prior to that you need to bind both framebuffers to different parts of the "resolve pipeline"
 
Horribru.
 
GL_DRAW_FRAMEBUFFER_APPLE and GL_READ_FRAMEBUFFER_APPLE.
 
eww
 
I know, terribru.
 
@ThePhD what do you do with these light render targets?
 
1:52 AM
Oh shit
 
Ahahahah, got his ass kicked. :D
Funny thing is, there was a stalking cat just behind it and it decided to attack the dog.
Looks like a wolf or something in the deer's eyes?
 
Deer's a dick.
Is it illegal to shoot a deer in your neighbourhood?
 
I don't know, but if it were my dog, I'd kill that deer and have a nice meal out of it.
Feed my dog with it, also.
 
It's a pretty badass deer we got there
 

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