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3:00 AM
http://www.tetrisfriends.com/games/Marathon/game.php?ref=from-homepage-ad
^ This is the tetris I always use. Sadly it has retard pop-ups about facebook and creating an account.
Also the layout is awful. and there is no easily accessible sound toggle.
 
Anyway I had this idea to make a KoL-style web based single player linear progression RPG (where RP stands for "increasing some arbitrayr numbers") with characters based on Lounge and generally terrible writing
But now I'm thinking that I should do something from 0 to gold that's even simpler than that
Well, it probably only sounds simple in my head, but I haven't done any analysis yet
And to do it agile or whatever the fuck it's called now style
With breakdown to simplest possible features and static iterations with fixed time commitment
 
Might want to start with tetris and design your RPG thing while youre doing that.
 
4 hours a week, whatever, we can finish this in 3 years doesn't matter
But to say "I will put 4 hours a week into this, every week, unless something really terrible happens"
So we can put those stories into 2-week iterations or whatever
And see new results every 2 weeks
 
You can use Trello for that :)
 
I was thinking about Pivotal really
 
3:05 AM
Never heard of it.
I'm using Trello on 2 projects atm though.
 
kbok made Trello board for this current sixth form zombie incarnation of Kyrostat, but I don't really see it
 
yeah i googled it
 
I got introduced when we got new client that used it
It's simple
Simple is good
So who'd be up for something
Let's make a web-based Tetris or Pong or whatever
Establish a flow
And stop being lazy and horribly incompetent idiots
(Okay that's just me)
 
If only I had time. I'm still working on robot's Unicode thing. I'm trying to getting up to speed on compilers/language design. I'm working on a game in UDK and a custom engine (for 2 different courses). T_T
Annnnd I'm trying to suck less at C++
 
Eh, I have uni too, that's why I'm talking about commitment on a 4-hour/week magnitude
 
3:09 AM
Hm.
Well, good luck with it. :D
 
Who's gonna yell at me if I'm the only project member :.
 
I'm sure you can find someone in the lounge to yell at you for no reason :P
 
user1357851
@CatPlusPlus Are you a masochist? why do you want be yelled at?
 
There's a word for it but I don't remember it
 
just found out about user-defined literals - a bit mind-boggling as it can totally change the readability of code
 
3:20 AM
In both directions
TBH it's the category of syntax sugar that doesn't buy you much
 
I like UDLs.
 
Unless you're one of those people who think typing actual words is too much effort
Because seriously minutes(4) vs 4_min
Same thing, except one of those is weird
There are some use-cases where it helps, but don't expect to be using this very often
 
4_min + 14_sec
That's kind of lame.. I take it back.
 
Operator abuse :v
What would be much better feature to add is keyword arguments
time(minutes = 4, seconds = 14)
 
user1357851
4m + 14s
 
3:24 AM
Isn't that called kwargs in python?
 
I think that's the only instance of it that I've seen it used, it's cool
 
From "keyword args" :v
It's used quite often
You won't see e.g. much bitflags
 
aye, but it's actually quite useful for initialising larger objects
 
I had a UDL named _Big to make a BigInteger
 
3:26 AM
allows for arbitrary ordering of parameters
 
but I dropped it because MSVC sucked.
 
Because f(a | d | f) doesn't buy you much over f(a = True, d = True, f = True) and gives up a check whether you're passing right arguments and not just some random integers
Untyped flag types is the worst idea ever
 
gonna figure out if I can do (5_jpy + 10.20_aud + 6.05_eur).to_usd()
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm not going to go quite as far as saying it isn't, but it certainly has a lot of competition for that title.
@kfmfe04 Yes, you most certainly can (though 5_jpy is so little it hardly makes sense).
 
3:41 AM
lol
 
@ThePhD It was me.
 
I found this interesting
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm already working on a game.
 
Where is the room topic from? It sounds like an excerpt from an interesting paper
 
It's :catdrugs:
 
3:52 AM
are UDLs implemented in gcc 4.7.2? I'm getting

Test_udl.cpp:14:27: error: ‘int operator"" _jpy(int)’ has invalid argument list from:

int operator "" _jpy(int i)
{
return i;
}
 
@kfmfe04 supposed to be unsigned long long, not int.
 
@Potatoswatter ouch! ty - I think I will have to read up on the specs
I guess that explains why I see unusual arguments of long double in some examples...
 
@kfmfe04 Yeah, see 2.14.8/3-4. If you want the compiler to parse the digits for you, they will only be delivered as an unsigned long long or a long double. If those types are troublesome, the literal operator will need to be constexpr so the conversion can occur before runtime.
 
@Potatoswatter ...but considering the value of one Yen -- on the same general order as one (Euro or US) cent -- you might want to stick to unsigned long long for it. :-)
 
There's also const char* for strings
 
user1357851
4:06 AM
I have this urge to post cakes again :x
 
@JerryCoffin The Philippine Centavo and Cambodian Riel are the smallest I've encountered. 4000 to the dollar each, and the centavo still has actual coins minted.
 
And there's wifi in this hotel.
(free) wifi
That's new.
 
probably shitty wifi
 
yes it's definitely shitty
but better than nothing
 
(At that rate, 32 bits unsigned overflows about a million bucks.)
 
4:11 AM
@Potatoswatter I guess it's fitting that the currency with an official abbreviation of "PHP" would have the lowest valued coin on earth. :-)
 
I really admire these guys.
@Potatoswatter I haven't seen a centavo for some time now.
 
@MarkGarcia Are you in the Philippines?
 
@Potatoswatter "Native", if you say so.
 
@MarkGarcia Whereabouts? Manila?
 
Hehe. The scammed city.
 
4:16 AM
@Mysticial Where you at this time?
 
@Borgleader Downtown Chicago.
I have an interview across the street from the Sears Tower tomorrow morning.
 
@MarkGarcia Wow -- now that is a coincidence. My wife is from Zamboanga.
 
Whole city's got scammed. Estimate is about 12 billion pesos. rappler.com/nation/16934-timeline-the-aman-futures-pyramid-scam
 
@Mysticial Oh cool. For which company?
 
FactSet
 
4:18 AM
@JerryCoffin Pretty near.
 
I found it in one of my school's career fairs.
 
@MarkGarcia Well, don't feel bad. My country got scammed… the USA
 
Well gl with your interview :)
 
They were looking for an HPC guy. Well, I'm one so it was a match. I'll find out tomorrow how well it is.
 
HPC? High performance Computing?
 
4:19 AM
That said, if all goes well I'm gonna have some 4 companies to choose from next week.
Not gonna be an easy decision.
@Borgleader yeah
 
My second guess was Highly Proficient in C :P
 
oh goodie...
 
UIUC career fairs are like nothing else…
 
anyway g2g, have to wake up early tomorrow for school
cyall
 
@Borgleader night
@Potatoswatter Yeah, I got shotdown by Cisco because my GPA wasn't perfect. haha
I couldn't have lol'ed any harder.
They asked me, "Why does your GPA suck?".
 
4:22 AM
Aw. Net's really bad these days.
 
I answered, "Because I'm a specialist, not a jack of all trades."
 
He probably thinks he's a genius for catching that… tried to pull a fast one on them, eh?
 
@Borgleader Later.
 
"I can do one or two things better than anyone else. But I can't do things that everyone can do. For those things, find someone else."
Is basically how I responded.
 
Well, the other reason is that UIUC is competitive across so many fields that if you take advantage of where you are, the classes tend not to be blowoffs and that depresses the GPA.
I don't know if you mean that outrageous humanities classes pulled it down, but I have fond memories…
 
4:26 AM
"One of things that I suck at is memorizing ridiculous formulas that can be googled in 10 seconds. In a real life setting, I can google. In a test I can't. Does that make me any worse than someone else who can memorize everything?"
Well... rules are rules...
At least Apple and Google want me.
 
Hmm, in the ECE department, most tests were open-notes so that wasn't a factor.
 
@Mysticial You might work with Jon Skeet soon.
 
@MarkGarcia Oh whatever...
If I go to Apple, I'll be working near Stephen Canon.
If I go to Google, I'll be working... whateva...
I think Stephen comes here every once in a while.
Another big HPC guy on SO.
 
@MarkGarcia Does he have time to do actual work for his company? (And that's Microsoft…)
 
@Mysticial Well, my good wishes to you.
@Potatoswatter I was about to say a Jon Skeet Chuck-Norris-statement. Nevermind.
 
4:34 AM
@Potatoswatter I doubt it. He probably gets spoon fed in front of the computer.
24k answers, 4 years 4 months. That's 15.7 answers a day.
 
That isn't how that works, you should know better.
 
@Rapptz who me?
 
Yeah
 
how does what not work?
 
If he takes weekends off, then it's up to 21+
 
4:38 AM
You're using a mean. Means are useless in most applications in comparison to a median.
 
@Rapptz But still... It's even scarier to know about those spikes.
 
Hello
 
@Rapptz It's not comparing him to other users, the task is deducing whether he really has a day job.
 
I need a bit of OO design advice.
 
@DavidFrank Don't be fooled by design patterns.
 
4:39 AM
I bet if I had Jon Skeet's profile, I wouldn't have gotten a single job offer. I mean like...
 
@DavidFrank That was meant as a partial joke.
 
If you have an action involvind more objects, where do you place the action method?
Example:
 
@DavidFrank p.O_O.p
 
Either way -- assuming it really is 15.7 answers a day and it takes upwards to 20 minutes to craft an answer that's approximately 314 minutes a day, which is ~5.23 hours. An average work day is 8 hours a day and you sleep for 8. Plus two hours for other things you have approximately 23.23 hours in a Jon Skeet day.
 
4:40 AM
There is an ant in a 2d field. The ant moves. Should the move() belong to the ant or the field or something else?
 
@DavidFrank In C++, you put it outside any of the classes as a free function.
 
I would like to use an OO solution
 
@Rapptz And that doesn't even count the time he spends camping for questions to answer.
 
@DavidFrank Try Java.
 
My question is rather independent from programming languages, I'm only asking about the design, you would use
 
4:42 AM
1 min ago, by Potatoswatter
@DavidFrank In C++, you put it outside any of the classes as a free function.
 
@Potatoswatter What would be the signature of that function?
move(Field *field, Ant *ant) {}
??
 
@Potatoswatter I believe it's Google. In any case, from what he's said, most of his answers are written while commuting (London, apparently the Tube).
 
The question you asked obviously has no answer. It's purposely ambiguous. It's essentially formulated as a counterargument to OO.
 
@DavidFrank I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
@DavidFrank Replace pointers with references, but yes.
 
4:44 AM
Why are you passing by pointer too?
 
@JerryCoffin Yes it's in his profile.
 
I still think Jon Skeet is productive (to a degree)
I don't know how he goes about answering questions but if he checks Stack Overflow every so often and answers the question he finds interesting I can kind of see how that'd work. Though that seems unlikely.
 
From the looks of his answers, I'd also guess closer to 2 minutes apiece instead of 20. He writes a lot of answers, but very few are really very long (many are only a couple or three sentences, almost none that involve testing or anything like that).
 
@Rapptz To think that way, I'll doubt if it is really Jon Skeet that answers those questions.
 
@Potatoswatter How would a pure OO solution look like without global functions?
 
4:46 AM
@JerryCoffin Yeah, whereas a good chunk of mine have tests. lol
 
@DavidFrank Given that it's the ant that actually moves, you should send the "move" command to the ant.
 
20 minutes was a number I used that was my upper bound average, I was originally going to put 5 minutes but I didn't know if his answers were of high character count.
 
He types fast.
Very fast.
 
@JerryCoffin But it involves the field as well. The field needs to know about the ant.
 
@DavidFrank Then you pick one. Usually methods tend to cluster together into fewer classes. My guess would be that if the ant "owns" its own state and it's what's changing, the ant.
 
4:47 AM
move(Field& field)
 
@DavidFrank The field is basically just a container. The ant is what moves.
 
ant.move(field1) etc
 
But if the field is simulating lots of ants and they aren't actually persistent objects, then it would be a method of the field.
 
Ok, thank you. How about this? The ant has to decide which direction it moves.
 
@Mysticial That's where I fall down -- my typing is usually fairly slow, and (worse) I revise a lot.
 
4:49 AM
I try pretty fast I just don't answer many questions.
 
Note that in C++, a free function isn't completely "global" since it belongs to a namespace which associates it to one or more classes.
 
@JerryCoffin At least, you don't need to watch the keyboard as you type.
 
The non-OO design pattern might not work as well in languages besides C++, which is why it's a magnet for OO haters, like most people in this room.
(But don't tell the pointy-haired boss.)
 
@MarkGarcia True -- I can/do touch-type anyway.
 
@Potatoswatter Why do you hate OO?
 
4:50 AM
@JerryCoffin At least we don't need to compete with him. I've run into a him a few times on Java questions. But that's it.
 
@JerryCoffin Just probably a problem in finger positioning. I have that problem manifest here and then.
 
@Potatoswatter huh?
@Potatoswatter Who hates classes in here?
 
@DavidFrank OO is the greatest fraud of all time.
 
@DavidFrank Because of dilemmas such as the one you mentioned. OO is too rigid and doesn't adequately capture the way programs are structured or the way good notation is written.
 
@Mysticial I've run into him a few times on algorithms/language-agnostic questions, but no, not very often.
 
4:51 AM
I thought people in here just hated a lot of designs.
 
@Rapptz All the people who are in school, of course (and a few who aren't in school any more). :-)
 
@Potatoswatter What is better then? Global functions?
 
I don't like classes.
Even out of them right now, I don't like them. =[
 
@JerryCoffin Well it's silly if it's forced upon you when you can make do without it.
 
@Rapptz Classes != OO and OO isn't a design pattern… it's a paradigm, a problem-solving strategy, a methodology (no pun intended) and a pedagogical method.
 
4:53 AM
@Mysticial You found internets on the train? :D
 
@Potatoswatter Back when C++ first got multiple inheritance, I almost immediately thought of the road databases had followed, going from hierarchical (single-inheritance) to network (multiple inheritance) to the relational model. At the time, there was no analog to the relational model, but templates are pretty close.
 
@ThePhD I'm in the hotel now.
 
Ooh, shiny.
 
@Potatoswatter Semantics...
 
Technically, I have internet everywhere in the states.
 
4:54 AM
@Rapptz Whoosh (I was deliberately mis-interpreting "classes" as the kind you go to in school).
 
@JerryCoffin Damn you.
 
But it's tricky to chat on my phone.
lol
 
:(
 
@DavidFrank The best thing is to consider all the options and pick the best. If there's a problem with OO, don't use it. If it's a good fit, do use it. Same goes for generic programming, etc.
 
@DavidFrank What suites best, or better. That's what you should do.
 
4:56 AM
At the uni, we are taught, that OO is the way to go. Also, OOP is a big hype nowadays.
 
@MarkGarcia Often more easily said that done though -- it's often only well after the fact that it becomes obvious which would suit a particular problem best (and there are often enough trade-offs that even then it's not entirely clear).
 
@DavidFrank If they're telling you that as a blanket statement they're spreading FUD.
 
@JerryCoffin Agree.
 
FUD?
 
@DavidFrank Fortunately, less than it was a decade or two ago though.
 
4:57 AM
Fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD), is a tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategic attempt to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information. An individual firm, for example, might use FUD to invite unfavorable opinions and speculation about a competitor's product; to increase the general estimation of switching costs among current customers; or to maintain leverage over a current business partner who could potentially become a rival. The term originated to describe disinformation tactics in t...
 
@DavidFrank OOP was hyped in academia 20-30 years ago. That's probably when your teachers were in school, and they just never moved on.
 
@JerryCoffin And those problems that pops-out on the late stages are what I hate most.
 
Haskell is all the rage now.
Or was it C#? I forget.
 
@MarkGarcia You and everybody else, I'm afraid...
 
Or Python.
 
4:59 AM
Hm
 
@Rapptz C# is so last week! Haskell is big in academia, and Objective-C for the money-grubbing types.
 
But Java has a huge ecosystem in databases and middleware, big enough that many schools ignore everything else.
 

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