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6:00 PM
(don't point me to Bjarne faq, I read that already)
 
@speeder let's try finding some good certification first
 
C++ Grandmaster Certification~
~Grandmaster~
 
@Cicada oh yeah, forgot about that gold brick
 
@MooingDuck : Just wanting to ask, why is it god practice to keep an initial value in a vector
 
I think I'll register
 
6:01 PM
Cicada not that one :P
 
I just know that its a fact, but why/
 
@GamesBrainiac it is?
 
They released a preview assignment
www.cppgm.org/pa1.html
 
@thecoshman : Thats what the book says
does not explain why
 
@GamesBrainiac I think you misunderstood something, it's a good idea to provide a value when expanding the size, but not "keeping an initial value".
@GamesBrainiac what book?
 
6:02 PM
C++ by Nell Dale
 
@GamesBrainiac sounds like bull shit to me
 
@MooingDuck : I see. So, when you resize, its best to use the resize which places an initial value
right?
 
@GamesBrainiac That's not on our approved list, which is a bad sign, I'll check it out real quick
@GamesBrainiac usually, yes
 
I see. Now why?
 
@GamesBrainiac this book?
@GamesBrainiac so you know what the vector contains. std::vector<int> myvec(1); What is the value of myvec[0]?
 
6:04 PM
@MooingDuck : Yup
 
@GamesBrainiac though you should probably avoid using a vector if you know what size you need. use a std::array, it's more semantic
 
@thecoshman : I see
I really like vectors more
 
@GamesBrainiac your initial colon is grating...
 
I mean, they are sooooo friggin useful
 
@GamesBrainiac note I said std::array not array.
 
6:05 PM
@thecoshman : there's a difference?
lol
 
C++ has both basic arrays, like int[] and then also a proper container class std::array<int>
the std::array is basically (afaik) a fixed size vector
 
I am beginning to see a pattern
 
@GamesBrainiac ouch, that is an old book, does it even talk about vectors?
 
you always use size_t
@MooingDuck : It does, just a little bit. It sucks because we have to follow it @ Uni
:(
 
6:07 PM
your uni is and you should feel bad
 
@thecoshman : True! :P
This is a class about data structures
 
when chapter 13 of 15 is arrays, you know it's not going to cover all of C++
 
Is it true that template metaprogramming was discovered by accident?
 
@speeder well, I don't think it was an intended design feature, if that's what you mean
 
6:09 PM
@speeder no, but: it was not deliberately designed to be turing complete, but it was discovered to be.
 
Why tempt me when there's snow everywhere.
 
Xeo
@thecoshman struct array{ T _elem[N] };
 
@MooingDuck : How do you know all this stuff?
 
@GamesBrainiac I spend too much time on the internet
 
@MooingDuck : I could learn a lot from you! :D
 
6:10 PM
@Xeo does it not have iterators and what not like vector though?
 
How someone figured that templates are turing complete?
 
@FredOverflow : Welcome! :D
 
@speeder you can prove it, if you care to
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Oh, I only meant from a data-point-of-view. Of course it has all those nice member functions (and is actually a template).
 
@Xeo ah, right right
 
Xeo
6:11 PM
The point is, though, it's not just a const std::vector<T> v(N);, since it's a genuine array on the stack.
Btw, what came out of the discussion over in the end?
 
@Xeo Stuff.
 
Xeo
Awesome.
 
@Xeo 'basically'
 
@MooingDuck As far as I could find, it doesn't mention the standard containers, algorithms, or iterators at all.
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Yeah, but the first thing people think of when they hear "vector" is "heap".
 
6:13 PM
@Xeo discussion? what discussion?
 
@GamesBrainiac thx
 
@JerryCoffin that's what it looks like to me. Also no templates or exceptions.
 
Xeo
Anyways, nobody was wrong.
@Cicada lol
 
@Xeo but then who do we mock?
 
Xeo
@thecoshman I appoint @GamesBrainiac.
 
6:15 PM
@Xeo : Haven't you guys been doing that already?
 
@thecoshman Tough question.
@Xeo Too easy.
 
@Xeo @GamesBrainiac lol, you had to ask questions!
 
lol
But you know what? I love it here. Great C++ community
3
 
@Xeo Not much. Reminded me of a tactic we were taught at "leadership school" when I was in the Air Force: after you've made your decision, ask your people about it, to give them the impression that their input might have some impact (and, if you get input you like, feel free to take if, of course -- but certainly feel free to ignore anything you don't like). That may just be my cynicism showing though.
 
@speeder We offer the certificate "Listen to @JohannesSchaub talk about templates for two minutes without going 'WTF is he rambling about?'".
 
6:16 PM
@GamesBrainiac helps if you are not a dick :P
 
@thecoshman : I hope I'm not a dick! :D
 
@MooingDuck ...or namespaces (beyond a using namespace std;), etc.
 
I do get persistent sometimes
 
@GamesBrainiac do you not feel accepted?
 
6:17 PM
@JerryCoffin I like this approach.
 
@thecoshman : I think I am. But I also feel infinitely inferior to everyone here. I feel as though everyone is a bigger brother or sister (cicada)
 
@FredOverflow Then the gold certificate for giving a definite answer to one of his questions.
 
@JerryCoffin That could take a while, he has a question/answer ratio of about 5%. So if he doesn't know the answer, who will?
 
@FredOverflow : Why hate johannes so much?
XD
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Cool, so I have that one.
 
6:18 PM
@GamesBrainiac perhaps, not everyone is a Guru though. I personally do not consider my self that great with C++ at all, especially recently due to doing very little in it
 
Xeo
@GamesBrainiac Eh, exactly the other way around, rather.
 
@GamesBrainiac I don't hate him, he's just a good standard to measure template knowledge by.
 
@FredOverflow : Oh, I see.
 
Xeo
Or standard knowledge for that matter.
 
Don't mind me, just learning here! :P
@thecoshman : Hey, it take a long time to get to Guru
@thecoshman : You're still awesome though! :D
 
6:20 PM
@Cicada you still trying to run Kyro, or you wonder off for a cookie or something?
 
Xeo
@GamesBrainiac Btw, I'd appreciate it (and I think I'm not the only one), if you could reply to specific messages.
 
Well my live key isn't detecting my desktop's network card so I basically gave up
 
Xeo
Gets a bit more sequencing in the concurrent discussions here.
 
@Xeo ¬_¬ I find the colon more grating
 
@Xeo Thanks, Will do from now on.
 
6:22 PM
@Cicada
 
Xeo
@thecoshman [fag:facepalm] ?
 
Just tell me, what's needing GL 3.1 ?
 
@thecoshman : How do you make something appear as code here?
 
Xeo
Hm, I deliberately wanted to misspell "tag" as "faq", and still wrote "tag" in the end.
@GamesBrainiac Did you read the newbie hints?
 
@Cicada nothing yet :P
 
6:23 PM
=_=
anyway it builds
 
@FredOverflow @Xeo, apparently (and I guess I'd count as well).
 
@Cicada sigh... that I know... version detection is what I wanted to test
 
@Xeo : Thanks
 
Well it did detect that I didn't have 3.1!
 
6:24 PM
@Cicada can you send me a copy of what you get when you try launch it, the full ouput?
 
@EtiennedeMartel I love cooking with wine. In fact, I like it so much, sometimes I even put some in the food.
 
Also, I found a good reference for lambdas
 
@GamesBrainiac wikipedia has quite a good long article about c++11 features
 
@JerryCoffin Better than putting food in your wine, at least.
 
Xeo
6:26 PM
@JerryCoffin And sometimes you even leave the food out?
 
@EtiennedeMartel trying to think of an example where it is good...
 
Xeo
@GamesBrainiac Oh, he's using templates to accept the lambda, that's a good sign atleast.
 
@Xeo I think you missed the joke
 
@Xeo I am beginning to see a pattern. People always use std:: as opposed to just using namespace stdl
using namespace std;
 
@GamesBrainiac Yes.
 
6:28 PM
I use using namespace std; all the time and it works great. :3c
 
using namespace is bad in headers, no matter what the header is.
 
@ThePhD not too smart dude
 
192
Q: Why is 'using namespace std;' considered a bad practice in C++?

ManaI've been told by others on numerous occasions that my teacher was wrong in saying that we should have using namespace std; in our programs, and that std::cout and std::cin are more proper. However, they would always be vague as to why this is a bad practice. Why is `using namespace std;' consid...

 
If you want to use using statements, do it in the smallest possible scope.
 
Xeo
@GamesBrainiac Here's a good recent example of why using namespace ANYTHING; is setting you up for trouble.
 
6:29 PM
@thecoshman (Shhh, I'm trying to troll!)
 
@GamesBrainiac Usually, but not quite always. There are times (but sufficiently obscure that you probably don't need to care for now) when a using namespace XXX is just about necessary.
 
@ThePhD some shit just aint funny
 
:c
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Eh, I think explicit using declarations cover that well enough.
 
@JerryCoffin I see. Those situations should be interesting
 
6:31 PM
@ThePhD How's it going? Got any luck with the Cat?
 
I didn't see him. D:
It looks like he passed by transiently but I haven't went and tackled him with an offer.
I'm scared. ;~;
 
@ThePhD offer?
 
Also apparently there's a Game Development Gala happening near me.
 
I also wanted to know something else. Is it a good idea to just typecase any number as std::size_t
 
@thecoshman Offer as in, "wan halp maek gaem? :3c"
It's not like I can pay anybody.
 
6:33 PM
@GamesBrainiac no
 
@MooingDuck : Why not?
 
I have no money right now, except the little green things in my wallet. ;~;
 
@MooingDuck makes life a lot easier
 
@GamesBrainiac sometimes you need things that aren't sizes. For example, ptrdiff_t.
 
turbinenerd.eventbrite.com <--- Looks like fun, but I'm not sure I'm going to learn anything special.
 
6:34 PM
@GamesBrainiac it makes life impossible.
 
@ThePhD The things you hear...
 
@ThePhD I doubt he will interested :P
 
Xeo
@GamesBrainiac Depends: Do you ever want to use negative numbers? :)
 
@Xeo Usually, but not always. If you have a fall-back you know exists (e.g., the typical example is std::swap) a using declaration is fine. If it's something where namespace X, or Y has to contain a target, but you're not sure of one that will, you're pretty much stuck with using directives instead.
 
@Xeo Yes.
 
6:34 PM
@ThePhD condoms?
 
Lol, if I could pay people in Condoms I'd be rich because I'm still a virgin. :D
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Ah, true enough.
 
... Though, wait, no. I'd still be poor because I don't even own any condoms. ._.
 
@thecoshman Have a little faith.
 
@EtiennedeMartel last time the cat did work? I rest my case
 
6:36 PM
All the time, it was just for Uni stuff.
 
@thecoshman He was all pumped up and shit yesterday.
 
TIL: std::chrono::high_resolution_clock is not very High Resolution.
 
wife and I found fudge half-off at the store :D
 
Sometimes, you see the idealism peek through the cracks in his cynical shell.
 
@EtiennedeMartel it isn't going to last :P
 
6:36 PM
@MooingDuck EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT
 
@ThePhD depends on your OS and CPU
 
slow me
 
@MooingDuck : Now you made me hungry. Shame on you.
 
1 min ago, by ThePhD
... Though, wait, no. I'd still be poor because I don't even own any condoms. ._.
 
@FredOverflow I see what you did there! :P
 
6:37 PM
Wait, there was a pun there?
.... Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh, my head.
 
@ThePhD That's gotta hurt.
 
Yeah, it just came right off. D:
 
@ThePhD en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/chrono/high_resolution_clock "Class std::chrono::high_resolution_clock represents the clock with the smallest tick period available on the system. It may be an alias of std::chrono::system_clock or std::chrono::steady_clock, or a third, independent clock."
@ThePhD what resolution do you have compared to what you expected?
 
@MooingDuck MS doesn't use performancecounter query and stuff inside of std::chrono::high_resolution_clock
So it's not very high resolution, lul.
 
6:39 PM
@ThePhD wait, they don't?
 
Apppaaarently not. :D
 
Xeo
typedef system_clock high_resolution_clock; // MSVC :3
 
On the bright side: 1D, 2D, and 3D textures are all set up.
Heart <3
 
WHY NOT 4D
 
If this goes over well, I will be able to show you all a Cel-Shaded Model!
 
Xeo
6:40 PM
@ThePhD > 1D textures
 
last time I wanted precision timers, was a pain to get it set up on windows
 
@Xeo wtf
 
Xeo
wat.
 
@MooingDuck : en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/size_t Can you tell me what exactly does the first line mean?
 
3D is so -13*10^9 A.D
 
Xeo
6:41 PM
@MooingDuck As you quoted, it's allowed to be an alias for system_clock.
 
@Cicada bleh 4D I want 5D damn it!
 
I want 7D.
Because then the Cross Product will mean something again.
 
@Xeo well, it's allowed to be. And char is allowed to be 128bits too.
 
@MooingDuck : What does it mean by "result of"
as in the return type?
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck :3
 
6:42 PM
@Cicada Showoff.
 
Well, it's okay. I rolled my own Stopwatch class before std::chrono so now it's just a matter of not bothering with using std::chrono
I also have my own TimeSpan class too.
 
@GamesBrainiac should be "evaluates to", but yes. std::size_t is the "return type" of sizeof(X).
 
@EtiennedeMartel How that
 
Thankfully I made it cross platform a while ago. :D
 
@MooingDuck : Thanks
 
6:42 PM
@Cicada maths and shit
 
sigh
 
@ThePhD or, just make another clock class using Window's high resolution stuff. Can't be that complicated.
what the, Windows steady_clock derives from system_clock? What's going on over there?
 
@MooingDuck : is there anything like size_t that also incorporates negative numbers
 
But yeah, I don't think I'll go to the Game Development Gala...
Seems pretty boring and stale and targeted at non-programmers.
 
@ThePhD Galaga
 
Xeo
6:44 PM
@GamesBrainiac ptrdiff_t.
 
@MooingDuck : I mean I can understand why size_t was made, it serves well for array and .at() input
 
@Cicada ?
 
@GamesBrainiac std::ptrdiff_t,
 
@MooingDuck Yeah, this one seems to work out well enough for me. I don't know if Linux can go higher res though...
 
waaa guys
 
6:44 PM
@GamesBrainiac size_t is for teh size of something. ptrdiff_t is for the difference between two numbers.
 
@Xeo : So, can I replace std::size_t with std::ptrdiff_t?
 
@GamesBrainiac double
 
you seriously almost made poor casper cry
 
or uint64 if you need more precision
 
@GamesBrainiac only if you don't need unsigned.
 
6:45 PM
unsigned allows the last ~2 billion spots of a byte array to be filled.
 
Je vois pas comment les mecs auraient pu trouver un visuel plus pertinent http://t.co/AOgf5FZD
 
@MooingDuck : I see. Thats awesome then. C++ has everything you need, if you look in the right places! :D
 
@GamesBrainiac you use whatever fits each situation. You should have both of them and other things in your code.
 
But let's be honest, who's going to make an array that takes up all 4 billion spots using just bytes?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD That mess would be a lot cleaner if you just made it two class definitions, and conditionally chose one of those.
 
6:46 PM
@Xeo Hey, it was my early days. D:
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol
 
classique
 
@Xeo Though, now that we're on the subject, which do you prefer?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD ?
 
6:47 PM
Should I #ifdef an include, and then typedef the one I need?
Or just write two classes with the same name and then #ifdef block them out?
 
Xeo
I prefer having two headers and just setting up my paths that the correct one is included. :3
Clean code~
 
Hm.
 
Xeo
But otherwise, both at the same time. Have two "detail" headers, and a public header which does the #ifdef + typedef.
Well, if the class is small, I guess I'd just #ifdef the definitions.
 
Ow, I stabbed myself with my own nail. ;~;
 
anyone here used brackets?
 
Xeo
6:50 PM
Huh?
 
I feel like I should stay here and do work, rather than go to that Game Development Gala.
 
Xeo
Then just don't go.
 
@GamesBrainiac C++ also has lots of stuff you'll probably never need ;)
 
If anything, I would hope to pick up another C++ programmer while I'm there.
The problem is, C++ developers are so rare outside the internet, and especially in Uni.
 
@FredOverflow True. But with the right guidance, C++ is a most powerful tool
 
6:52 PM
Just pick a Java programmer and tell him to put a colon after the public and private modifiers ;) Oh yeah, and replace extends with :public
 
Dear god no. ._.
I got access to the MIT mailing list once and sent out an e-mail out asking for developers.
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow I like the colons, much less bothersome than typing public every damn time.
 
I think I made the mistake of explicitly specifying that I do work in C# and C++.
 
@FredOverflow : Yea, I had shivers once
 
Almost everyone in the GameDev classes at MIT used either Javascript or Java.
Nobody went lower than that, though.
The most gritty among them used things like Unity.
 
6:54 PM
@ThePhD The game industry runs on C++
 
@GamesBrainiac Tell that to the millions of Universities who don't teach a lick of GameDev using C#, C++, or anything like that.
 
@GamesBrainiac I thought the game industry ran on Python, Lua and Flash? ;)
 
You know what my first Game Dev course chose as the 'Programming Language' ?
Alice.
We used Alice.
 
What is that? Anyway, I don't think language matters that much when you learn Game Programming.
 
@FredOverflow : Python, Lua, Flash? You kidding me? You need C++ for ALL game engines
 
6:55 PM
@FredOverflow You are a blessed soul.
 
Anything high def is C++
 
@ThePhD stacked-crooked.com/view?id=61ba05f547b8e37b7139f925ea8bc0b3 here's a start of a windows highres clock class
 
@MooingDuck I have most of that down already. o_O
Albeit I don't have any of the std::chrono plugs.
 
I just got spam about loosing 9kg of weight. Do they want me to die?
 
They know you're German
 
6:57 PM
Sausages.
 
@FredOverflow You must me really skinny then
@Cicada Maybe it was you??? Ta-Da-Dah!! :P
 
@GamesBrainiac I'm somewhere on the edge between normal and underweight.
 
@FredOverflow : In other words, perfect.! :P
 
No
He's still German
 
Bah.
I'm not gonna go to the Gala.
 
6:59 PM
What Gala? The C++ Oscars?
 
I'm not going to learn anything and it's just going to be a bunch of "Industry Professionals" talking down to me for hours about game development.
 
@Cicada : I can get he's german. But I can't make out your username. Isn't Cicada a locust or something?
 
Well you're not getting my humor it seems
Which is surprising
 

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