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9:04 PM
@DeadMG Looking at the linked blog, it appears that update 1 is different/separate from the CTP. About the only thing (other than targeting XP) they mention about C++ is: "...C++ unit testing enhancements."
 
Xeo
The installer said something about C++ core libraries, atleast, unless I misread.
careers.stackoverflow.com/launch /cc @sbi @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
Thanks a lot slowpoke.
You going?
 
Xeo
Depends on if I'm still in Berlin at that time.
 
You still don't know when you are starting?
 
Xeo
I'll start at Jan 1st, but I don't know when exactly I'll move.
 
9:11 PM
No place to live yet?
 
Xeo
That's why I'm heading to Oberhausen tomorrow.
To sign the contract for one.
 
Erm, guis, could someone who has always done C++ "in a C manner" (aka usage of very low abstraction features) qualify as a C++ programmer for a job interview?
 
Xeo
And trying to get those fuckers to pay my initial furniture.
 
Are you talking about yourself as "someone"?
 
9:12 PM
@Cicada Basically you're asking if "I" qualify as a C++ programmer.
I'd still say yes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd hoped to make the question more neutral.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial No, you never coded C++. :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Stop reading my mind.
 
@Xeo Does new and delete count as C++? :P
 
Xeo
Never.
 
9:14 PM
lol
 
Xeo
make_unique and ` ` count as C++.
 
Xeo
Nothing as the equivalent of delete.
 
Fine, I'll go ask to the PHP room.
 
lol
 
9:15 PM
It really depends on who is deciding what qualifies.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes What about you?
 
In this precise case I'm asking you
I'm looking for a honest answer not a pat on the back.
in PHP, 1 min ago, by Cicada
Hello dear humans, could someone who has always done C++ "in a C manner" (aka usage of very low abstraction features) qualify as a C++ programmer for a job interview?
in PHP, 16 secs ago, by webarto
Intruder alert.
 
Xeo
Just say "I'm an old-school C++ programmer." Doesn't sound as bad, and is true.
 
@Cicada No, but they might qualify if they are talented and willing to learn idomatic C++.
 
@Cicada Wow, you have balls of steel
 
9:17 PM
@Cicada I'd say yes. If they can write a simple template container, that's enough to qualify as a C++ programmer in my book.
 
She does not have balls. Period.
 
I don't know if it's sad or not, but I've never really been in an interview where they cared about idiomatic C++
For my previous job, they asked me to inverse a string.
 
@KonradRudolph Initally I wanted to say "dear prokaryotes", but I'm not sure it would have gone too well.
 
Me neither. My boss does not know C++.
 
Ooops, did I say string? I meant char*.
 
Xeo
9:18 PM
@DeadMG: No CTP features in Update 1 :( /cc @JerryCoffin @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
@StackedCrooked Assuming that they are talented and unwilling to learn idiotic C++?
 
@Cicada You're almost there.
 
When I interviewed at MS, they seemed to care more about performance than proper C++. But once I got the internship, it was the other way around.
 
It's up to you whether you want programmers that write idiotic C++ :)
 
9:20 PM
@JerryCoffin you should uninstall the CTP first. and for best results don't uninstall the update 1 (at least 1 person has reported that it doesn't uninstall properly, on like five different machines). OR, this is just hearsay, so maybe it's not correct!
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked > unwilling
 
Oh and that was before I got good at performance.
 
@Xeo I think I'm going.
I need to check what date it is that the boss is paying us dinner, but I think it's not on the 5th.
 
@Xeo That really confused me since I didn't see Mysticial's avatar anywhere :(
 
@MooingDuck fail :)
 
9:21 PM
@Mysticial How complex was the C++ you wrote?
 
Damn, that’s so unfair! I wanna come! /cc @sbi
 
Yes, we got it.
 
@KonradRudolph onebox too big
 
Xeo
lol
 
Xeo
9:22 PM
So @sbi's gonna have 3 plinks now about the Launch Party?
 
@MooingDuck My you guys are picky!
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Well, I just installed it without uninstalling the CTP, and at least in a quick check, it seems to be working about like before -- e.g., I can write code that accepts an initializer_list, but the standard library doesn't yet. No time for serious testing yet though (obviously).
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes 15 years ago, he actually wrote code. But he doesn't know anything about templates except that they're complicated.
 
@KonradRudolph It's about time you noticed
 
@sbi He said he does not know C++. I believe him.
 
sbi
9:23 PM
@KonradRudolph See here.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah. Maybe they only wrote C back then. I really don't know.
 
@Cicada For the interview, there was almost nothing about C++. It was mostly C with a tad of performance here and there. Once I started the internship, I had to deal with a huge mess of over-engineered deeply inherited bullshit that took more than 95% of my time to read.
 
@sbi Yes, he said he only knows C.
@Mysticial hehe, inheritance.
 
It was almost as bad as LLVM's inheritance tree.
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin The CTP part wasn't updated, it seems.
 
Of course, I was shittier programmer back then than I am now. So that didn't help.
 
Xeo
9:25 PM
And the proper compiler shipped with VS2012 doesn't include the CTP yet with Update 1
 
@Mysticial The opposite would be scary
 
sbi
Anyway, I actually got the damn thing working in that old GCC implementation, only to discover that I do indeed need more than 6 parameters. I needed 12, so I bit the bullet and used Notepad++ to cook them up. Pasted them in, and compiled. Except that the error I get now indicates that THIS DAMN IMPLEMENTATION ONLY PROVIDES TUPLES WITH UP TO TEN ARGUMENTS! I was sooo angry, I almost smashed something.
 
I need to figure out why my computers keep going so slow. I need a program that tells me what the chokepoint is. Scrolling shouldn't take this long.
 
wow! VC++ update 1 includes features from CTP
 
@MooingDuck dust
 
9:26 PM
@sbi Maybe there is a macro to configure that?
 
Xeo
@sbi Yup, VC also has 10 max IIRC.
@Abyx What?
 
Before I call any of this stuff, what's the first bug?
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh. Lemme look.
 
@Abyx according to who?
 
9:27 PM
@sbi My my
 
@Xeo that. I installed it, changed toolchain and it works
 
oh, not handling hex digits!
more?
 
Xeo
@Abyx What works?
 
@sbi Perhaps you can use nested tuples? Kind of clumsy, but perhaps better than nothing.
 
Xeo
My simple test with variadic templates didn't.
 
9:27 PM
@Xeo variadic templates and other stuff
hm...
 
Finally got my recovery USB made and the Win8 Pro disk burned. Time to wipe the damn laptop and hopefully get it into a usable condition.
 
@Abyx did you have the CTP previously installed?
 
Xeo
Sure you didn't pick the CTP compiler accidentally?
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked If I do this, I could just as well use nested std::pairs.
 
finally silent around me, but then instead of posting suspect code here i should just look hard at it
 
Xeo
9:28 PM
v110 as a platform toolset won't compile variadics.
@sbi cons-lists, yay!
 
@Abyx If you've already set up a project to use the CTP toolchain, it'll continue to do so. If you set it to plain Win32 (debug or release) it doesn't, at least for me.
 
hm.... but it does...
 
@sbi You're right.
 
@JerryCoffin I changed toolchain to "Visual Studio 2012 (v110)"
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope.
 
9:30 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's not the solution i need. — Jorge Vega Sánchez 7 mins ago
 
I think I should try to create a new project...
 
Xeo
template<class... Ts> void swallow(Ts...){}

int main(){
  swallow(1,2,3,4);
}
Spewing ALL the errors with v110
 
sbi
@Xeo As I said, I have already implemented this several times. It's just that this time I wanted to use the std lib, rather than cooking up my own!
 
@Xeo try swallow<int, int, int, int>(1,2,3,4);?
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck It already chokes on the definition of the function, so...
 
9:31 PM
@Xeo oh, right. nevermind
 
@Xeo uhm... same shit now =\
 
@sbi I'm pretty sure MSVC has some #define you can set to configure how large tuples it should handle
 
@jalf He's using GCC.
 
ah right
 
sbi
@jalf Yeah, but it won't help me with this old GCC version I have.
@Xeo Have you tried renaming the template parameter to Tsk? Maybe this helps. Tsk.
 
9:32 PM
Are you sure upgrading your gcc is not an option?
 
@jalf "Workaround for this is to add a preprocessor define _VARIADIC_MAX=10 "
 
WTF? I can't boot off a CD?
 
whoops, I'm behind again
 
@Mysticial Apparently you suck.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked It's a vendor-provided version, vendor-tailored to their embedded hardware.
 
Xeo
9:33 PM
@sbi Fun fact: There is a bug in the November CTP which changes the output of the error messages depending on whether another function template is defined.
 
ah... right. after rebuild it started to yield compiler errors, with that old project =(
 
@sbi That sucks :(
 
well... at least we have the WinXP target now...
 
sbi
Well, I guess I go home now. I've had it for today.
 
hmm
could retarget LLVM backend
 
9:34 PM
@sbi Wow, still at work?
 
Oh... it's the fucking "Secure Boot mode"...
It's not letting me boot on anything but the HD unless I disable it.
 
@Mysticial Oh, in that case you don't suck.
 
@sbi Wow, I thought you were at home.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Yup. Been here for almost 12hrs, 10 of which I fought with std::tr1::tuple. And just when I conquered it, it's all in vain.
Oh the fun of being a developer.
 
@Mysticial Almost everything they add for "security" makes me feel less secure.
 
9:36 PM
@JerryCoffin "they"?
 
@JerryCoffin Touchy feely now, are we?
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Because "security" as applied there, refers to securing their income, not to securing your work.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf If paranoiacs don't have to define it, I don't either.
 
Well, that fixed it. It's booting on the Win8 DVD now.
 
@StackedCrooked Always have been.
@sbi Hadn't thought of it that way, but you could well be right.
 
sbi
9:40 PM
@JerryCoffin I only invoke "Genuine Advantage"...
 
@sbi Genuine Advantage is kind of a joke actually. All you need is a single computer with a legit OS to be able to download all the updates that need it.
 
user1182183
@Mysticial or a oem key
 
@sbi Good call. Saying more could only weaken your argument.
 
I answered an easy question 20 seconds after another guy, and my answer was way better. Someone commented on the problems in his post, and now the code in his question in almost identical to mine, but he has more upvotes :( Oh well.
 
@MooingDuck link?
 
user1182183
9:42 PM
@MooingDuck we can help you :P
 
user1182183
MASS UPVOTE
 
@GamErix that'd hardly be fair, using contacts for upvotes?
 
@MooingDuck No, it's upvotes for justice. That's totally fair. :P
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck world ain't fair, u should know that :P
 
It's called Upvotes with Benefits
 
9:43 PM
2
A: Generic way to create comparer for objects behind pointers

Mooing DuckThat's what templates are for! struct ptr_comparer { template<class Object> bool operator()(const Object* first, const Object* second) const { return *first < *second; } }; std::sort(data_str.begin(), data_str.end(), ptr_comparer()); Since I've templated the opera...

 
user1182183
xD
 
actually, now that I think on it, it's probably a dupe
 
It's a pretty trivial question
 
Before I upvote, can somebody actually verify that the answer is correct?
I suck at templates.
5
 
@Mysticial hahaha!
 
9:44 PM
The answer will unleash the seven hells on Earth.
 
user1182183
I'm bastard ;F downvoted his, upvoted urs
 
user1182183
*we got a badass over here
 
I'll take that as a yes...
 
hmm
 
@Mysticial You have 9k upvotes in and you don't understand templates 101?
 
Xeo
9:45 PM
@Pubby Check where he got those upvotes...
 
Mysticial doesn't know how to code I think
4
 
Xeo
He only knows how to optimize. And make me jelly with his hardware.
 
user1182183
I suck at C, C++, PHP, Python, .. well, everything, and I don't cry :P
 
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main()
{
    double const pi = 3.14;
    enum{ x = int( pi ) };
}
visual c++ says NO, g++ says YES
which is correct?
 
Xeo
I say FILE_NOT_FOUND!
 
9:46 PM
visual c++ does accept a literal 3.14 instead of the named constant
 
visual C++ is always wrong
 
Xeo
Does it accept without the explicit cast?
 
lemme try
no, neither of them accepts that
 
@Mysticial If T is int*, then T* will be int** and operator< on int* will be called, which is platform specific behavior. A correct solution would use std::less. IIRC.
 
user1182183
@Cheersandhth.-Alf vc and gcc can talk? ; o
 
Xeo
9:48 PM
@StackedCrooked YDRC
 
I don't know that acronym.
 
Xeo
I just invented it.
 
@StackedCrooked we dereference the pointers, that's not relevant
@StackedCrooked You didn't read correctly
 
Xeo
"You do remember correctly"
But then I noticed that "You don't remember correctly" has the same acronym, so yeah.
 
I thought you meant 'you didn't recall correctly' :s
Because platform specific behavior is rare and that not's the case here.
 
Xeo
9:49 PM
I meant the part that you should use std::less to avoid problems.
 
Comparing valid iterators into the same container is fine, everything else UB.
 
@GamErix wait, did you really downvote? That's not nice
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck ok i will remove it ;x
 
user1182183
OH VOTE locked
 
@StackedCrooked oh right, my code mishandles char**. I get it. Fixing...
 
user1182183
9:52 PM
how fucking nice -.-
 
Just edit with a comment saying "mis-voted, editing to change vote"
though that implies that you must actually upvote after that
 
I edited it
 
@GamErix he only has like 800 rep too. You're a mean person :P
 
MooingDuck has more than enough rep so you can downvote him instead
 
hm, by C++03 rules visual c++ is right: there is an inexplicable restriction to floating point literals (not allowing named floating point constants)
 
9:56 PM
@StackedCrooked whoa! Marked as answer! Thanks!
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck well I turned mean when my last GF dumped me
 
user1182183
liar
 
Cool.
 
user1182183
I don't understand this: "I love you but I don't want to be in any relationship for now, can we be friends?"
 
user1182183
my response:
 
user1182183
9:56 PM
FUCK YOU, BYE
 
@GamErix She took a dump and you came out?
 
user1182183
@StackedCrooked then I would've written "GF dumped ON me"
 
user1182183
:P
 
.... somehow I just called myself on my computer. ANd my computer rang.
I didn't know my computer could ring. I took off my headphones, and the actual computer box tower was ringing.
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck <brainfuck>
 
9:58 PM
@MooingDuck wut?
 
Ell
say whuuuuut?
 
user1182183
Uhm, shall I call you? I want to try this windows feature out!
 
user1182183
Howto plz.
 
my company does telephone server stuff, it's plausable my computer has an actual telephone port/card thing in it....
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck hehe ok lol, just like very old laptops
 

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