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Foo
1:00 AM
Hello
 
rlc
hey
new here?
 
Foo
yes, just got my 20 points ^.^
 
rlc
congratulations
 
Foo
thanks.. was wondering if there is any gpg gurus here?
 
rlc
gpg hasn't come up recently.. I don't know if there are any gurus around
we're mostly C++ programmers here
(where "programmers" includes a wide range going from veteran/expert to n00b)
oh, and puppies, as you can see in the description
 
Foo
1:07 AM
lol cule
GPG is kind of a stand alone tool but need to get some output from it to feed it into my JNI
 
Foo
yeah, but it was mandated that i use libgcrypt so got no choice :(
only a grease monkey :((
 
rlc
why libgcrypt?
 
Foo
the users dont want to install additional stuff on top of their vanilla linux, libgcrypt devel libraries come with the install but gpgme devel libs dont
 
rlc
right..
well, I guess you had your answer here:
0
A: libgcrypt AES to return ascii ciphertext?

WyzardWhy are you using JNI and external libraries just to encrypt a string? Use Java's built-in javax.crypto.Cipher class. However, regarding your actual question, you should be passing the data as a byte array, not a string. Ciphers operate on bytes, not abstract Unicode codepoints.

no?
 
Foo
1:16 AM
nah its this one:
2
Q: Using output from gpg --list-packets on a key to get the mpi values to generate s-expressions

FooHey guys, I am trying to use gpg generated public keys to do encryption using libgcrypt. I used the list packets command on the key to get me the contents of the key and parsed the mpi values into an s-expression. So when I try to encode my session key with my public key I get the error "Odd hexa...

 
rlc
have you tried using a byte array in stead of a string in this case? GPG might not like unicode..
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: We give pedantry a new meaning.
 
Foo
since i m passing the s-expression into my JNI, its in bytes
my suspicions are that the values returned by gpg is not a hex string with the hex numbers including the leading zero
like
instead of giving 0A, i get A instead
:-/
 
rlc
that should be easy enough to check though
 
Foo
well if the correct hex string i should get is something like this: 00A0B08301
and I get this from gpg A0B0831
 
Xeo
1:29 AM
You're missign a 0 before the 1 at the end
hit the up-arrow to edit. :)
 
Foo
nah i left it out on purpose..
 
Xeo
that would be extremely strange to get such an output
 
Foo
yeah, i am not sure it is but i suspect it :(
am I allowed to do some cut and paste here of the gpg output?
 
Xeo
sure, if the text is too long it gets truncated with a "more..." button at the end
but as a reminder... no gpg guru here. :)
 
Foo
ok.. maybe some common sense will help me out too lol
gpg --list-packets --debug 2 dos.key
...
pkey[0]: <large hex string>
pkey[1]: 7
pkey[2]: <large hex string>
...
both pkey[0] and pkey[2] are "even" hex strings
but pkey[1] is a odd number..
mmm, hangon i might of figured it out..
>.<
 
rlc
@Xeo which answer did you want to star?
 
Xeo
Several. I find answers that interest me very much in questions which do not really interest me all the time.
Take this question as an example. I have like zero interest in action script, but the (now accepted) answer (wasnt when I first read it), touches the topic of bytecode dispatching, which I find really cool.
Or this one, where the problem is trivially solved by a simple macro, but @Johannes' answer is just so friggin awesome, including the overload of operator, and the extremely clever use of it, that I want to save it.
I can't do that individually, I need to star the uninteresting question.
 
rlc
3:03 AM
That answer by @Johannes is really cool - I can see you wanting to star that :-)
I got a "Critic" badge down-voting Jeff's answer on the meta-question, btw :-D
 
 
2 hours later…
Xeo
5:15 AM
What do you guys think about a c++ standardese compendium on SO, explaining commonly used words in the standard like "elaborated type specifier"? Would it be shot down like @FredO's video list or would it survive?
2
 
6:03 AM
@jalf hi how are you ?
 
6:21 AM
So, what are the options for building with VS 2005 against a specific revision of C and C++ runtime libraries? MS has released several fixes to the runtime and to VS 2005 but we cannot just switch to the latest runtime libraries because of compatibility. Is using custom manifest files the only option?
 
6:55 AM
@Xeo Would anyone be interested in that except the language lawyers?
 
65
Q: Cycles in family tree software

Partick HöseI am developer of Family tree software (written in C++ and Qt). I had no problems till one of my customers mailed me a bug report. The problem is that he has two children with his own daughter. And he can't use my software because of errors. Those errors are result of my various assertions and in...

 
@FredOverflow perhaps because then we (use mere humans) then also understand some standardese
@Nils a silly question like that gets sooo many upvotes, not fair :(
 
Common language is good for communication. Such compendium might be valuable as that, common language.
 
@What's silly about it if you have suddenly a cycle in a supposed directed graph?
 
is std::cin not part of the iostream header?
@Nils just the way it's asked in relation to the family tree....
 
7:02 AM
have u seen Borat? Kinda reminds me of that movie..
 
7:22 AM
@TonyTheTiger The whole point of iostream is to declare cin, cout, clog and thier wide counterpart.
 
@TonyTheTiger For what purpose?
 
@FredOverflow purpose of learning something
 
I have absolutely no idea what an "elaborated type specifier" is, and honestly, I don't care unless I'm running into a situation where I absolutely have to know.
 
You need to know this if you want to talk to others about it. IMHO.
 
@Nils This is a good example about the danger of making assumptions as a programmer.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:48 AM
@Nils whenever you're programming, you should think "What is the worst arguments this function could receive". If it is able to handle that, then you're pretty well set. I often try to break my own functions just to watch the world burn.
 
9:08 AM
Awesome.
It looks like the only way to make binaries use older MSVCR80 etc. is to actually change few hundreds of project files to link with specific manifests.
FML.
 
Can't mass replacing facilities help you?
 
Yeah. I will have to figure something out. I am not going to do that manually.
I think I will try Visual Studio automation through COM or .NET or some such.
 
Ow, that's... I was just thinking of some XML manipulation. VS project files are XML.
 
Well, I have already done some small VS automation stuff. It is slower than textual manipulation but it seems safer.
 
sbi
9:24 AM
4 hours ago, by Xeo
What do you guys think about a c++ standardese compendium on SO, explaining commonly used words in the standard like "elaborated type specifier"? Would it be shot down like @FredO's video list or would it survive?
@Xeo I find it a great idea.
@FredOverflow Such a list would be the place to look it up when you need to know.
@Xeo: If this gets shot down, let's just start a c++-standardese tag and make all these individual questions, with an index at the tag wiki.
 
@sbi I think that might be a better idea: it's more search-friendly.
[c++-standardese] "elaborated type specifier" would get me exactly what I want.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Actually I think this is worse, but it might be the only way to pull this off with the guys who adhere to the letter of the law, never mind the spirit.
 
Now that I think of it, a single question is not that search-unfriendly. Just pop the question link from your bookmarks and grep for your target.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes You could search the page using your browser's facilities.
 
Xeo
10:14 AM
YaY, the chat is back
LOL. The family tree question just caused the [wtf] tag to be created.
 
Glad it wasn't just me :)
 
@sbi I don't really see why it belongs on SO, but then again, I said (and say) the same thing about the c++ faq :)
 
Amazing the incest question is at 151 votes.
Why do people think the upvote arrow means "This is funny."?
3
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes It was at 145 not too long ago
and is has ~12k visits in 3 days
152 now
Heh, I added a useful tag to the question... [cycle] :) Wondering why nobody did so yet, surely because they where all impressed of the situation...
 
10:33 AM
Yeah, and busy creating useless ones.
 
Xeo
156 votes.. wow
I'm sure there was a question about cycles in graphs before :|
 
@DeadMG welcome back :)
 
Xeo
Oh, the Puppy is back!
 
@Xeo 160 ;-)
 
162 now :P
how come the asker isn't getting any rep for it anymore?
 
Xeo
10:40 AM
Repcap?
The rep kinda exploded today
 
sbi
10:57 AM
@Xeo Surn, and I missed it, being in a meeting! <pout/>
 
hi guys
i wanna learn C++
 
Xeo
491
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawk This question has historical significance, but is not a good example of an appropriate question. Read and learn from this post, but please do not use it as evidence that you can ask similar questions. See the FAQ for more info. Provide QUALITY books and an approximate skill level. Add ...

 
@AmitGupta Grab a good book, pick a project idea. Read the book, write code.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Absolutely. The only way to learn C++ is to write C++.
@MartinhoFernandes Re: "The incest question", it's a great illustration about assumptions that software engineers make when producing code.
 
@Johnsyweb I doubt the hundreds of upvotes come from that, but...
 
11:08 AM
Assertions have no place in production code for situations that could happen.
That is from where my upvote came.
I should probably comment to that effect.
 
"Oh I'm writing a family tree application. I'm not going to support incestuous relationships, since those are not very common, and they would complicate my design."
"If someone comes along with children from his own daughter, I can implement that later."
Sounds like YAGNI to me.
 
@MartinhoFernandes YAGNI perhaps.
But no need for an assertion!
 
Oh, I missed that part about the assertion.
I got the idea the problems stemmed from the fact his algorithms assumed certain invariants, and broke when those invariants were not met.
And assertions should not be in production code at all, because they never fail * cough *.
 
am i allowed to ask questions related to Algorithms? :) Not c++ related though...
 
@MartinhoFernandes Quite :-)
 
11:15 AM
@coder9 You are not allowed to ask about permission to ask :) Other than that... just don't spam.
 
gonna apply Dijkstra with constraints. (connection between two pairs of vertices is a must). how should the logic modified? pls shed some light....
 
"connection between two pairs of vertices is a must" What does this mean? There are at least two pairs connected? That won't allow any changes.
 
11:30 AM
for ex: we need to have an edge between node X and Y (this is the constraint). this might not produce the original result when Dijkstra algo. i need to slightly modify it.
*when Dijkstra algorithm applied.
 
The resulting tree must include an edge between X and Y, is that it?
 
ya.
 
Interesting. Did you post a question on the main site? You'll reach a bigger audience.
 
not yet...
 
Please do. Then if you want you can post a link here.
 
11:36 AM
sure.
 
Do you sometimes write a try/catch block in the destructor? Or would that be an indicator of bad design?
 
@StackedCrooked Sometimes if you fail to release a resource there's nothing else you can do about it, so I think swallowing the exception would be warranted.
 
In future i will be the next leader in country .. is this right sentense ?
 
@StackedCrooked much like Martinho said, I've done it for types that need to e.g. close in the destructor, where close is liable to throw
 
Take for example a network connection. You close it, but it fails because the network is down. You just move on. If the network is down, there's no point in closing. The other end will eventually timeout.
 
11:46 AM
@MartinhoFernandes What do you do in the catch block then? Silently ignore the error? (I write a message to std::cerr ..)
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Log it, and swallow it. Never have an exception leave the destructor. Things will get very ugly.
 
@StackedCrooked If you want to log something, go ahead. Don't try to salvage something that is not salvageable.
Or doesn't need salvaging.
 
@MartinhoFernandes I'm not trying to salvage, but I also think I shouldn't silently swallow errors..
Ok, but thanks. It seems I've been doing the right thing.
 
@StackedCrooked I don't like swallowing exceptions either, but when the alternative (letting it leave the destructor) is worse...
 
sbi
11:53 AM
I don't believe it. Really. Did you know "they" can not only delete, but also edit your comments?
 
Xeo
@sbi What?
Lol
 
sbi
@Xeo My comment here had, after the question mark, something like this: "(To tell him to fuck off might not be appropriate, though.)"
Now it's gone.
 
Xeo
You didn't have to remove that, you won't get sued for an exact duplicate in the chat. xD
@sbi Yeah, I remember that part.
 
sbi
@Xeo Someone removed it.
 
Xeo
Seriously, what are they? The Stasi?
 
11:56 AM
Comments are automatically deleted after enough flags. That's fine, I think. But editing them? That's a bit too much.
2
 
sbi
0
Q: Why was my comment edited?

sbiFor four days, my comment here had, after the question mark, something like this: "(To tell him to fuck off might not be appropriate, though.)" Now it's gone. Why did someone edit my comment and remove that?

 
I guess the answer will be along the lines of "someone got offended."
 
@Xeo "We can edit your comments. It's for the good of the community." Ugh
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Then that someone, unless he's a moderator, could only just flag the whole comment, but not explain they don't like one sentence in that. Or did I miss some change there?
 
I wasn't saying it was a decent answer. I am just predicting the future. That "someone" was probably a mod or something.
 
sbi
12:01 PM
0
A: Why was my comment edited?

Mike PenningtonYour comment got edited because profanity is not acceptable here. Are you truly surprised at this?

 
Xeo
Wtf.
Damn, I need 19 more rep on meta to downvote that guy...
 
sbi
@Xeo 14. :)
 
Xeo
Heh.
 
sbi
Ha, and my question was downvoted, too.
 
Sorry guys, I can't upvote from here. Long story, no login cookies on meta.
 
sbi
12:05 PM
I can only shake my head about this.
 
@sbi Is profanity truly not acceptable on SO? It's not like we're in church here.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Why do you ask me?
 
Xeo
If anything was profane about that comment, it was the question it was written on.
 
@sbi I'm not really asking you, but it's a question response to this person's comment you posted.
 
sbi
@Xeo: Now your comment was removed, too. Or did you do that?
 
Xeo
12:08 PM
I did, reformulating. :)
I had to look for the exact translation of "profanity", and I guess in this case it means "obszönität". Sadly, "profane" isn't the appropriate verb in that case
 
I've seen profanity on answers before. Highly upvoted answers.
 
Xeo
Seriously, starting to whine because of the word "fuck"...
2
 
22
Q: Are expletives allowed on SE sites?

Jeff AtwoodCan I use salty, expletive-laden language on Stack Exchange sites, like Q*Bert? Return to FAQ index

^ Just found this
 
it's american, that says enough
they can't handle 4 letter words
 
I'm off to lunch.
 
12:16 PM
The question remains whether editing profanity out of a question is the right thing to do. I think it's better to flag the entire comment.
 
Xeo
> What kind of father lets his daughter date a man who is old enough to be her father.
 
@martinhofernandes : have good lunch ...
 
Xeo
Ahaha, from the family tree question, a comment
 
sbi
Interesting to watch the up-/downvote wars on that question/answer.
 
Xeo
For anyone interested in obscure SFINAE without nested typedefs, this answer and my comment with the link might be quite interesting
 
sbi
12:27 PM
Now the voting war heavily leans towards the right-wing bible-belt secret police. :(
 
Xeo
@sbi, I guess your comment will be edited because it said "bitch". :)
 
sbi
@Xeo Ha. I use dthe word "fuck" there. In bold italics.
 
Xeo
Oh, you're right. I overlook that one. :)
Though, the last sentence might be considered a bit offending.
 
sbi
@Xeo You say!
 
Hmm I hope they don't put up a word filter.
 
sbi
12:43 PM
@Reno They don't need to, they seem to have thousands of bible-belters carefully scanning the site.
 
@Xeo It is indeed possible to trigger SFINAE with expressions & decltype
 
They should definitely consider the 'tone' of the expletive.
 
Xeo
Seriously, now they are trying to close the family tree question "as subjective and argumentative" wtf?
 
@sbi you've threatened now...
 
or as Freigegeben ab 16 Jahren
 
12:52 PM
in the comments on your question
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger What do you mean?
 
@Xeo, I voted it as "not a real question". it is clearly a set up (everybody slightly interested in genealogy -- especially to the point of writing a program for it -- knows that family tries are DAG), the setup is designed to draw more attention than warranted, and the question doesn't hold (removing the setup you can summarize it as "how do I handle cases I assumed won't happen without removing the assumption?").
3
 
@sbi "or expect to have it edited out and the ban hammer eventually drop on you from a great height." By user Rob
in the last comment on the answer to your last question on meta
@sbi I did you've been threatened... not what I said earlier
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Ah, you meant i have been threatened?
 
excuse my bad sentence
 
sbi
12:58 PM
@TonyTheTiger Ah, Ok. :)
 
1:17 PM
I think this applies!!
 
Xeo
@TonyTheTiger Heh, that's a good one
 
2:26 PM
Maybe my definition of expletives is different.
To me, the category of expletive and profanity is ludicrous.
Who chooses?
I can't say f*ck, but I can say fudge.
Fudge, I hit my finger.
That's an expletive.
*@#$ is an expletive
 
@Xaade It's an bunch or random chars following up on each other
 
So are: gosh, darn, darnit, lor, geez, freakin, gorramit, bee's knees, holy cow, bejeez, gosh darnit, ...
 
@Xaade It's Perl.
 
@MartinhoFernandes lol :P
geez isn't offensive is it??
what about "ffs"?
 
I hardly think anyone would get into trouble for saying.... "Bee's knees, this is great stuff."

Though, there's a distinction, in that saying, "This is the bee's knees", actually makes "bee's knees" not an expletive.
 
Xeo
2:33 PM
What the fuck is going on... Visual Studio crashed for the 6th time in a row now...
 
And all of the sudden, random word fuck is profanity.
As opposed to all the other expletives out there!
Thannit, I dun gots a hickey in my sticky, fudge.
 
@Xaade Ok, so lots of people misunderstand the word "expletive" . Their argument is "vulgar terms are not allowed", even though they didn't express it like that.
 
Xeo
Now I can't even load my solution anymore.. wtf
 
@MartinhoFernandes I get the intended meaning. But I can't to this day understand why X words are profanity, and Y other words are vulgar but acceptable.
fuck, shit, damn, etc. vulgar and profane. Crap, fudge, shat, vulgar but not profane.
 
Xeo
What could cause VS2010 to immediatly crash when I try to load a solution?
 
2:38 PM
Obviously, the English profanity list is stuck in the 1800s....
 
VS.
Or is it recurrent and specific to that solution?
 
And I think the whole thing is just immaturity.
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes Recurrent and specific to that solution. The funny thing, it crashed while I was just typing 6 times in a row on that solution, and now it isn't even loading anymore
 
@Xeo I switched back to VS2008 for now. VS2010 behaves weird for me.
 
There's a difference between a person who lets out an occassional vulgar word AS an expletive because the purpose of the word doesn't matter and the user is frustrated, and a person who uses a vulgar word every third word in an attempt to BE profane.
 
Xeo
2:39 PM
@StackedCrooked Yeah, VS2008 is somehow stabler and faster than 2010, but I need that TMP and C++0x stuff (especially decltype)
 
Only the second one, I find offensive.
Mostly because it's annoying.
And shows a lack of care when trying to communicate.
The first one is pretty much standard day to day for most people, and it doesn't threaten communication at all.
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes Another solution, 100k+ LOC loads perfectly fine
 
@Xaade Well, it's by definition. And it really is a subjective issue. There are no "rules" for that.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Some seems to think that the matter is clear enough to impose their rules on others. Which is strange if there are no rules.
@Xeo Fucked up the disk representation of the DB?
 
Xeo
@AProgrammer the .sdf ?
 
2:49 PM
@Xeo Nah, that's deletable.
 
Xeo
Yeah I know, that's why I was wondering
 
Can you pinpoint it to the .sln file or to a specific project?
 
Xeo
"One or more projects in the solution where not loaded correctly." follow by a crash after 3 seconds max
 
@Xeo, I don't know. I know nothing about Visual Studio.
 
Xeo
the solution only has 1 project
 
2:51 PM
Open the .sln file with a text editor and remove the project from it.
 
hello mates
 
I don't know the exact syntax, but it's very simple.
Then try opening it.
 
Xeo
hey @Johannes
Works just fine, also tried to directly open the .vcxproj -> crash
meh
that xml syntax in the project file is hell
 
American economy slows down, Congress prints more money, China says crap we have to make our money more worthless again.
 
Xeo
Okay, it is my main.cpp that's making problems
 
2:59 PM
Putin gets a jellybean stuck in his nose, and Canada shrugs.
 

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