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rlc
12:00 AM
in Fred's table
 
@Miss Okay cool, then we can finally get to the negative numbers. What is this log stuff that you keep mentioning?
 
yes right
 
Are the numbers already in log? Or do we have to go to log?
 
rlc
@FredOverflow can we hold off on the log for a moment - I'd like to get another NULL node in
because I think there are three types of NULL nodes
 
three tyes of null nodes
how
no,fred table is right
 
12:01 AM
Wow, these numbers are quite large, minus 10 to the 10th power? What is the meaning of those numbers, where did they come from?
 
rlc
this table, for example:
0.0 0.6 0.4
0.0 1.0 0.0
0.0 0.9 0.1
 
hmm
 
It seems B is the only NULL node here.
 
rlc
ok, that's it :-)
 
(Do these NULL nodes even matter? What is the question you are having, Miss?)
 
12:02 AM
no no no
BC can't be null
 
rlc
there's no way to get to node A in this table: you can only get out
 
Sigh... sometimes I think Miss is deliberately trying to confuse us :)
@Miss Ah, because the nodes are left to right? I think I'm starting to get this.
 
hold on.. i am also confuse
 
So only C can be NULL node?
 
yes right
 
rlc
12:04 AM
@FredOverflow you took the words right out of my ... uhm.. fingers :-)
 
hhehehe
 
rlc
ok, then:
0.0 0.6 0.4
0.0 0.9 0.1
0.0 0.0 1.0
 
@Miss So why isn't the last line in your real table 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 when F is a NULL node?
 
rlc
would you call A a "NULL node" as well (because you can't stay there), or wouldn't you?
 
but remember my table is not left to right
yes A is null
 
12:06 AM
@Miss It isn't? Then why did you introduce the concept of left-to-right in the first place?
 
ahh i was jsut talkiing about that/./../.
my table is just a standard form
 
rlc
how would you go about converting one of our tables to your "standard form"?
 
...okay, so is there a different form that would be more helpful to our discussion?
 
hmm ok hold on i tell you your table in standard form ok
i have 5 states ...
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
0.0 0.3 0.4 0.0 0.0
0.0 0.0 0.5 0.6 0.0
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.7 0.0
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 
rlc
ok, whose table is that, and how did you get to it?
 
12:11 AM
i just make my self
1st and last state are null
 
lol
Why do you have these states at all?
 
and it goes like this "
 
Also, the lines don't add up to 1.0 anymore. Is that by design?
 
rlc
@FredOverflow I guess for the same reason St Augustine came up with the idea of Limbo
 
aa ,ab,bb,bc,cc
 
rlc
12:13 AM
third line actually goes up to 1.1
 
ahh
ohh shit
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
0.0 0.6 0.4 0.0 0.0
0.0 0.0 0.5 0.5 0.0
0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
ok ok
it goes like this Miss
aa,ab,bb,bc,cc and 1st and last state s are null
 
rlc
now the first and last rows still add up to 0
is that your "standard form" or are those still probabilities?
 
its propbabilties of states who works in standard way
 
rlc
ok, but I thought you said the probabilities had to add up to 1
first and last rows should then be:
1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
...
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0
right?
 
no, last state is null
1st and end states are null... there is no end...
as last state is null that mean
immidately last null state will attach with next words' states
 
rlc
12:23 AM
ok, but your other states don't allow you to get to that state
 
why
 
rlc
second, third and fourth row have 0.0 probability to get to the state of the first or last row
 
null states are just connector
 
Why do the states suddenly have these funny names with two characters?
 
rlc
ok, so they're not really states, but edges that go out of the graph?
 
12:25 AM
they are states ... and 1st and last states are null that mean 0 probability
see from my table
you will see that state 1 and last states probbab are null
that table is jsut for one word that is "yes"
that yes word have 7 states, 1st and last states are null and these null state will connect to next word stats
 
rlc
so they're states that have been found in the analysis of the word "yes", but can't really be reached?
 
say next words is "are"
but as i know , and according to my knowledge
null states are null and 0 probabity
we can ignore them
so leave them
lets talk about in between the null states
ok tell me
that how can i get these probabiltes into log domain
i jsut have to talk log of those values is it?
 
Okay, I give up. Have fun with her, @rlc ;-)
 
rlc
@FredOverflow I'll give it another five minutes or so :-)
@Miss what do you mean with "log domain"?
 
ahh uyou people are going,.,.. hmm
 
12:36 AM
@Miss If you take the log of a negative number, you get a complex result. I'm pretty sure that's not what you want.
 
rlc
she might want to raise to the power of her negative number, though
then the question is what her base should be
 
exp(-10000000000) is a very small number...
Where do these numbers even come from? I feel LOST...
 
rlc
@FredOverflow that it is
 
hmm
then how can i get log domain
i need these numbers in positive form
 
@Miss In what domain are the numbers that you have now and how did you get them?
What does -10000000000 mean here?
 
12:38 AM
my professor gave me these numbers
 
rlc
@Miss did he give you any context with those numbers?
what's the course you're taking?
 
well i have
and the course is speech recognition
 
How is -10000000000 a probability?
 
ahh sorry
its mention in my file that :
The transition probabilities are in the log domain.
if its in log domain then how could these values are negative..
 
If you want to go from the log domain to the "normal" domain, you have to exponentiate the numbers. The problem is that exp(-10000000000) is an incredibly small number.
 
12:42 AM
can probabities be negative?
 
exp(-10000000000) is not negative, but really small.
Far too small to store in a double, for example.
So I would say it's unlikely the numbers are "in the log domain".
Nobody would come up with such ridiculously small probabilities.
 
hmm
but as i know probabilty in log domain are not vegatives..
then why it is like that given to me.
 
Sure, why not? For every x smaller than 1, log(x) is a negative number. For example, log(0.5) = -0.301029996
 
hmm right
 
And since each probability is <= 1.0 by definition, almost all of your probabilities will be negative in the log domain (except for the 1.0 case where log(1.0) = 0).
 
12:47 AM
hmmyes right..
so in my table whch probabites are 0
 
That would be log(0), which unfortunately does not exist. The log function is undefined for 0, because there is no number y which satisfies the equation e^y = 0.
 
rlc
no, but in the table x^n == 1 if n == 0
 
hmm thats why these called null and ignore them
 
rlc
and if those values are "in the log domain", that means they're n in that equation
 
x^n == 1 if n==0 what does it mean
 
12:51 AM
Aha, now we're getting somewhere!
 
give me example
 
The first line
-10000000000.00000    -0.00000    -10000002194.87082    -10000011068.24602    -10000010259.57027    -10000048423.70020    -10000000000.00000
is translated to
0.0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 
fred you converted them into normal domain is it?
 
rlc
that is regardless of the base, btw
 
Because e^(-very large number) = practically 0 and e^0 = 1.
@Miss By applying e^x to the values, yes. (Assuming they are in log domain, which seems to make sense now.)
 
12:53 AM
hmm ok
 
rlc
@FredOverflow are you assuming e as in 2.7 or e as in anything..?
 
I don't care :)
 
rlc
I would expect e to be 10, personally..
 
ahh hold on , @fred why are you converting them into log domain
 
rlc
@FredOverflow IIRC, some of the numbers were small enough to care what the base is
 
12:54 AM
@Miss I am not. I am converting from log domain. Didn't you ask us to do exactly that?
 
we have to work with log domain...
 
rlc
@Miss it's much easier to understand with straight-forward probabilities first
 
ahh sorry , i mean why are you converting from log domain
 
Well, at least we understand the meanings of thsoe numbers now.
 
we have to do work with lgo domain
 
12:55 AM
And what "work" would that be?
 
but me still confuse
:(
 
rlc
@Miss seriously, let Fred explain what he was explaining. You'll get back to log domain afterwards :-)
 
Look, we now understand what the table means and what the negative numbers mean. Now what? What comes next? What is the actual assignment?
 
hmm fred is she .. no he .... i think
 
I don't think questioning my gender will bring us closer to the solution.
 
12:57 AM
hmm ok well i also understand a bit that how that probabilites are in standard form
 
rlc
lol
 
heheh
 
rlc
so, what was the assignment?
 
i need to find GMM .. probabities of all observation ...
ok hold on i show you
 
What the heck is GMM?
 
1:00 AM
and input valuis like this
i have 7 states
and input have 85 frames
that mean 85 / 5 , where 1st and last state are null that mean ignore them ...
so that mean each staten have 17 frames right?
and each frame have 14 featues
so result is that each state have 238 features
right
GMM == gussian mixture model
 
rlc
each state doesn't necessarily have 17 frames - that would only be true if they all have an equal amount of frames all the time
 
Where did the frames come from? What is a frame?
 
each state have 17 frames thats true...
85/5 = 17 frames
where number of states are 5
and input have 85 frames
 
rlc
@Miss that doesn't fit well with the idea that you have a probability of transition
you can easily stay in one state a bit longer than in another
 
hold on,we have to find the best state sequence for all obversation sequence
 
rlc
1:05 AM
@FredOverflow I think frame == sample
 
yes @fred: right
frames are samples and each samples have 14 features
 
rlc
@Miss so you have to interpolate between the states you saw to find the states you missed?
 
hmm well i did not understand your statement but i understand my statement
 
Sorry, it took me over two hours to understand one simple table and what the numbers inside them mean (and I still don't get those NULL states), and now Miss comes up with another large heap of terminology and data. I simply don't have the time and energy right now, sorry.
 
rlc
and if I read your table right, you take your gaussian means of every feature, for every state, is that right?
 
1:08 AM
Where is @Alf when Miss needs him? :)
 
@ric: right
 
rlc
@FredOverflow there's only five of us in the chat room, and Luc and Fred Nurk seem to be letting us handle this :-)
 
@Miss The character in the middle of his name is a lowercase L, not I :-)
 
@fred where
 
@Miss rlc
 
1:10 AM
@fred: they are sleeping in think
ahh i see
 
That's R L C, not R I C.
 
rlc
@FredOverflow I've told her that at least five times already :-)
 
hm ok sorry, heehhe
 
@rlc Five times is not enough, apparently :)
 
hehe sorry i did not notice
 
rlc
1:11 AM
anyways, those Gaussian means and covariances, they're means of what?
they apparently define the state..?
but what's the unit?
 
@rlc They're probably "in the log domain" as well ;-)
 
well as i understand , these are for featues have divided in all states
The mixture weights are NOT in the log domain.

4. The means are NOT in the log domain.

5. The covariance values are NOT in the log domain.
These covariance values are the diagonal of a 14x14 matrix.
These covariance values are sigma squared (variance),
not sigma (standard deviation).
 
rlc
@Miss what features are being measured?
 
@Miss Is than an excerpt from the assignment? Can you post the whole thing?
 
ahh
actaully, i am not able to do this work. do you knwo why ... becuase i need to make code for loading HMM file
the file i posted that is HMM file for yes
and the innput file
i am trying to laod a simple file values if i get succcess there then i will laod HMM
i have code for laoding the input files
but for hmm i have not.....
 
1:15 AM
So after two hours of gibber-gabber, you suddenly realize all you need is help by C++ programmers parsing a text file containing some numbers? Really?
 
nops
not really
 
rlc
I don't think you should start thinking of code before you understand the data your code should work on..
 
right now , i am jsut trying to understand the problem
@rlc: i agree
thats why i am trying to understand its data and algorithm work
well @fred: if you notice, i postd all things..
and code is given to me in c/....
but i am feeling problem in c due to pointers...
i can work with opps .. so i am trying to laod files in c++ ...
i posted input 1 and hmm_yes file
 
@Miss, sometimes you drive me crazy. Not as crazy as this guy, but almost:
 
ahh @rlc: start thinking of code
 
1:18 AM
 
no
because i lost my time ... and now i am thinking to share with my friend
so my work is to understand the algorithm and method for code up this work
@fred: video do't work
 
rlc
@Miss could you take a look at this and tell me if that's close to what you're working on?
 
@rlc: almost but that isreally complicated
i have pdf .. for GMM algorthim how that work for my case
 
@Miss Did you click on it?
 
@fred: ofcourse
thats why i am talking no
anyways i have pdf i want to show you but i do't know how to extract the slides from pdf
@rlc: my work is same as Guassian filter topic 5 in your pdf
 
rlc
1:26 AM
just put the whole thing in dropbox or whatever and tell us which slides to look at
 
but the eqs and figure , it distorted ..
 
@Miss could you use @fredo or something longer than just @fred? thanks ;)
 
rlc
@fredo how's your math? It's been a while for me w.r.t. integrals
 
ok Mr
@rlc: ahh idea...
 
rlc
@Miss ?
what idea?
 
1:32 AM
ok @rlc: gMM is same as in the pdf you posted..
yes
so my case is GMM multy dimentional case
 
rlc
ok, so all you have to do is take the values from the table and apply the function from your slide?
 
either this is the real Neil or a very good imposter
4
 
yes right @rlc:
and now the matix in the ,link , is standard transition
can u see that?
 
rlc
ok, so now we've figured out what those numbers mean, we've figured out what the numbers in the other table mean and you already have the function you need to apply (and, now, a link to an article that tells you how to get to that function). What more do you need?
I gotta go - @FredO, if you haven't run out of energy yet, have fun :-)
 
and as fred Nurk proof me that transitions are in standard form
 
rlc
1:43 AM
@Miss I think you mean Fred Overflow
Fred Nurk is a different Fred :)
 
yes
 
rlc
anyways, g'night
 
ahh no
i mean fred nurk:
 
rlc
@Miss what, bad night?
;-)
 
:) hmm well you wrote fredO thats not fair
now i should do prectice of FredO and fredN
:)_
 
rlc
1:45 AM
@Miss if you just say Fred, it might go to either Fred Nurk or Fred Overflow. That's why Fred Nurk asked you to use FredO
I guess he got a few mentions that weren't for him
anyways, good night - I gotta go
ciao
 
yes thaty i will use fredN..
his name is fredNurk
so fred N
thats it
 
rlc
2:13 AM
Since when is C++0x dead? If they don't put their stamp of approval on FDIS, it'll be C++12 at least - and even if they do, there's bureaucratic hoops to jump through
 
my understanding is it will be published this year, even with those hoops
I'm still using "0x" rather than prematurely change
 
rlc
I'm kinda betting on C++13, but that's just my optimistic nature ;-)
 
hah
 
0.94 is almost 1
right?
 
rlc
I should also say I've seen a software project go through 30 "final" releases, so the F in FDIS leaves me a bit skeptic
 
2:19 AM
Or almost 0.100
 
its not 1.0
 
rlc
@Miss depends: if you have a 94% chance of surviving something, you might not think it's "almost 100%"
 
hmm
i want to see this :
-10000000003.02626 -0.05288 -3.02626 -10000000210.68538 -10000000210.68538 -10000000210.68538 -10000061011.29385
 
rlc
@Miss no, 0.94 -> 0.9
 
into normal doamin
hmm
 
rlc
2:21 AM
but 0.95 -> 1.0
 
ofourse 0.94= =0.9
 
rlc
no, not ==
 
yes right
ah ehehok sorry,,
0.95 -> (points to) 1.0
ok now ok
 
rlc
well, I meant "rounds to", but whatever
 
0.0484966769 -> 0.0 can i say .. its 0.0
 
rlc
2:23 AM
the question is: how well did you measure what the value represents?
 
i just measure from google ]
 
rlc
and with that, I will leave you to your homework - gotta go (again)
 
heheh but you arenot going
 
rlc
yes, I am
ciao
 
@fredN, tell me i want to this tavle into normal domain,,,:
-10000000003.02626 -0.05288 -3.02626 -10000000210.68538 -10000000210.68538 -10000000210.68538 -10000061011.29385
i tried the first line as you did
thats righty
but for second line ... i am not sure about that
well @rlc: i found it
0.0484966769 -> 0.05
ok now let me carry on
now i understand transitional probabilties
thanks @fredN
how foolish i am... its not doubt ...
 
2:36 AM
18
A: Remove the most popular tag from the title using JavaScript

Yi JiangWhile SOIS might not want to do it, we, as the user, can. And the script is absolutely ridiculously simple - so simple that I'm surprised nobody has posted it yet. Ah well, free Meta rep here I come: // ==UserScript== // @name StackExchange Title Tag Remover // @namespace yijiang /...

 
probabiltes are too small
that mean observation will take less take to stay in states
so transitional probabilties shows that model is too fast..hmm
 
Anyone else uber-annoyed by tags in page titles?
5
 
2:51 AM
I am! Was. Before you linked to that answer.
Thanks by the way. And more thanks to Yi Jiang.
 
yeah, that's why I repeated it so I could pin something useful :) pinned urls don't look so hot
probably a good time to mention rchern.github.com/StackExchangeScripts too
 
 
1 hour later…
4:24 AM
ho
 
@Miss: that's kind of an offensive thing to say to anyone.
What the hell happened to Google? define:ho is not working anymore!
 
hy i said "ho" by mistake
i meant hi
is this syntax right>?
tM.getTransitionalMatrix(Martix<double>);
 
4:41 AM
My first C++ question:
0
Q: Overloading on R-value references and code duplication

Martinho FernandesConsider the following: struct vec { int v[3]; vec() : v() {}; vec(int x, int y, int z) : v{x,y,z} {}; vec(const vec& that) = default; vec& operator=(const vec& that) = default; ~vec() = default; vec& operator+=(const vec& that) { v[0...

 
5:21 AM
@MartinhoFernandes §13.3.3.2 is making my head spin, as usual :(
 
I can't read standardese yet, so I can't make any sense of that paragraph. Every two words there is a term I don't know the meaning :(
Would "spiking" the copy ctor to cout something make a difference for the compiler optimizations?
Copy elision is allowed to break the as-if rule, right?
 
@MartinhoFernandes yes, it is. it can assume the copy ctor is written so that it expects elision
that doesn't necessarily mean the compiler will elide the copy ctor if it doesn't want to, since usually people that add side-effects in a cctor usually expect them to be performed...
I'm checking one last thing then updating my answer
 
5:39 AM
With the four overloads, none of the two examples I gave makes any copy at all. But that's because I avoided it in the l-value + l-value case.
But if I write that overload in terms of +=...
I get two copies.
Seems like overload resolution will pick it for both +s. I was expecting the second + to be operator+(r-value, l-value).
 
your lvalue + lvalue case doesn't make a copy per se, but it does construct a new object, which is the same thing for these purposes
 
Yes, but it only gets called once.
@MartinhoFernandes Forget what I said above. I does call l+l and then r+l.
That second copy must be the return value. I was hoping to see RVO.
 
@MartinhoFernandes: essentially, my scouring of the fdis supports your code: no reduction of the duplication is really possible
 
Is there a non-stylistic reason to write a+=b; return move(a); instead of just return move(a+=b);?
 
5:54 AM
no
@MartinhoFernandes: I think you'll like the CRTP example I added :)
 
@FredNurk Actually, I was going to do that myself. Copy-pasting will be easier :)
 

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